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Question of the Day: Have you ever been to an airshow?
andres101
Expert Member
You seem to be assuming that a 2.xG base-station can be upgraded to a 3.yG [aka HSPA] base-station, which it cannot, so your point is pointless IMO.
Take a cellphone tower mast - the vertical pole to which the collective radio equipment is attached, there you should find 2.xG radio equipment that forms part of a 2.xG base-station, and if the mast is equipped with 3.yG radio equipment then that forms part of a 3.yG base-station, these are separate radio networks attached to the same physical pole, and they use different radio frequencies. It is not possible to upgrade the 2.xG equipment into 3.yG equipment.
BTW, I didn't write the article - which you also appear to be assuming, I'm simply pointing out an availability issue - if a service is not actually available, then it does not exist - as far as I personally am concerned, and my opinion does not necessarily coincide with the author's opinion.
Ok, if you would be so kind as to please inform the people who do know, that I have a question I would very much like to have answered, I would very much appreciate it, so that I can then answer your question.
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Gatecrasher
Executive Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,727
- Reaction score
- 624
I apologise for my base-station ignorance.
But my point remains valid. Not all ADSL users can get 4Mbps. Not all people can get Neotel. Not all Vodacom users can get 3.6Mbps. Not all MTN users can get 3.6Mbps. But all of these options are available to the market, and should be included in the comparison, without the imposition of arbitrary "qualifications" that warp the outcome.
Accepted
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I cannot get ADSL512 - too far from the local exchange.
I cannot get NeoGhost's CDMA2000, and let's be honest - hardly anyone else seems to be able to get NeoGhost's CDMA2000 since NeoGhost seems to think that coverage is just a minor thing to worry about after it has "soft launched" across the whole of Gauteng - heck NeoGhost hasn't even bothered with an online coverage map - dumb consumers - why do they need a coverage map...
In my book, that means that the service is not available to me, and for that matter not available to many others, i.e. it is basically not a reality - it does not exist until it exists in many parts of at least Gauteng [NeoGhost's chosen first soft launch location] let alone the rest of the country.True that not everyone can get close to HSDPA 3.6 speeds, but throughput is not my point - my point is whether or not the HSPA radio networks of both Vodacom and MTN fully support HSDPA 3.6, without which it is impossible to have a HSDPA 3.6 service and therefore also impossible to get higher than HSDPA 1.8 speeds - even if one has a HSDPA 3.6 capable modem - which a lot of people do have - mostly in the form of the Huawei E220 modem that was sold by both Vodacom and MTN.
Maybe so, but I can only say what my own personal prerequisites are to determine whether or not a service is actually largely available or not.
Pitbull
Verboten
Accepted
I cannot get NeoGhost's CDMA2000, and let's be honest - hardly anyone else seems to be able to get NeoGhost's CDMA2000 since NeoGhost seems to think that coverage is just a minor thing to worry about after it has "soft launched" across the whole of Gauteng - heck NeoGhost hasn't even bothered with an online coverage map - dumb consumers - why do they need a coverage map...
True that not everyone can get close to HSDPA 3.6 speeds, but throughput is not my point - my point is whether or not the HSPA radio networks of both Vodacom and MTN fully support HSDPA 3.6, without which it is impossible to have a HSDPA 3.6 service and therefore also impossible to get higher than HSDPA 1.8 speeds - even if one has a HSDPA 3.6 capable modem - which a lot of people do have - mostly in the form of the Huawei E220 modem that was sold by both Vodacom and MTN.Maybe so, but I can only say what my own personal prerequisites are to determine whether or not a service is actually largely available or not.
But this is already confirmed in the very factual article is it not ?
Pitbull
Verboten
I think the article needs a disclosure like they do on the TV adverts.
*Pls note this is a paid for advertisement*
This is a joke. But on a serious note. That article is so Pro Vodacom it hurts my eyes
*Pls note this is a paid for advertisement*
This is a joke. But on a serious note. That article is so Pro Vodacom it hurts my eyes
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
Pitbull, here are the facts;
EVERY Vodacom 3G tower, country-wide, was upgraded to support HSDPA-3.6 BEFORE the product was launched. Fact.
EVERY Vodacom 3G tower, country-wide, was upgraded to support HSUPA BEFORE the product was launched. Fact.
EVERY Vodacom 3G tower, country-wide, supports HSDPA-7.2 but these are only turned on where enough backhaul is available.
(The only exception to the above could be that some cell extenders (depending on vendor) might not support 3.6 or UPA. But these are not the towers, they typically cover an office here or there. The one in my office fully supports everything, for example.)
So all 3G TOWERS, COUNTRY-WIDE are on 3.6 and UPA. Some are on 7.2.
You can quote me on this.
Now in turn, can you please provide this forum with the % of MTN towers that are providing 3.6, 7.2 and UPA please? You'll remember that (over in the MTN forum), no-one could find 3.6 or 7.2 for weeks after the MTN launch. But I'm pretty sure it's different now.
Will be cool if you can confirm the numbers.
I'm sure if MTN could confirm they have a country-wide 3.6 network, the article can (and should be) updated.
Jumping on the bandwagon, I also found the article missing some info; we tend to focus on downlink speeds but forget the importance of uplink speed. I believe we should always fully state downlink/uplink speeds when discussing a network.
No use having a Mb/s network in the downlink and you're trying to do a Video Conference with only 64Kb/s in the uplink. for example.
For example the Vodacom HSDPA-1.8 service is a 1800/384 service at the data-link, while the HSDPA-3.6 service is spec'd as 3600/1400.
EVERY Vodacom 3G tower, country-wide, was upgraded to support HSDPA-3.6 BEFORE the product was launched. Fact.
EVERY Vodacom 3G tower, country-wide, was upgraded to support HSUPA BEFORE the product was launched. Fact.
EVERY Vodacom 3G tower, country-wide, supports HSDPA-7.2 but these are only turned on where enough backhaul is available.
(The only exception to the above could be that some cell extenders (depending on vendor) might not support 3.6 or UPA. But these are not the towers, they typically cover an office here or there. The one in my office fully supports everything, for example.)
So all 3G TOWERS, COUNTRY-WIDE are on 3.6 and UPA. Some are on 7.2.
You can quote me on this.
Now in turn, can you please provide this forum with the % of MTN towers that are providing 3.6, 7.2 and UPA please? You'll remember that (over in the MTN forum), no-one could find 3.6 or 7.2 for weeks after the MTN launch. But I'm pretty sure it's different now.
Will be cool if you can confirm the numbers.
I'm sure if MTN could confirm they have a country-wide 3.6 network, the article can (and should be) updated.
Jumping on the bandwagon, I also found the article missing some info; we tend to focus on downlink speeds but forget the importance of uplink speed. I believe we should always fully state downlink/uplink speeds when discussing a network.
No use having a Mb/s network in the downlink and you're trying to do a Video Conference with only 64Kb/s in the uplink. for example.
For example the Vodacom HSDPA-1.8 service is a 1800/384 service at the data-link, while the HSDPA-3.6 service is spec'd as 3600/1400.
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Turiko
Banned
I would like to see the point of upgrading a tower in the middle of nowhere on the route to Durban, with these kinds of technologies. But according to your post it has been done. So next time I go to Durban I will stop in the middle of nowhere and see if I can surf the web and it had better work. Oh I forgot, I am with Vodacom, it probably will give me some error and fail
Pitbull
Verboten
I think you are also missing the boat completely.
I have never in my personal capacity said MTN does or doesn't have 3.6 at # of towers. I have no need to back anything up. My gripe is with the article being factless. If you can tell me each and every Vodacom client no matter their location has 3.6 Mbps then I'm all for that article. I can now give you areas I know for a fact does not have 3.6. By saying and hiding by the fact "Yes ALL 1.8 towers have been upgraded" Does that cover the same areas that has only 3G or even still just have GPRS ?
You can not go and write an article saying 3.6 or even 1.8 for MTN if not everyone does not have access to those speeds.
Then taking it one step further and adding monatery value to that is just a serious flaw. Be it as it may, the feeling about the article is not just questioned by myself but a few people on here. I think that should hold some water don't you think ?
FACT: Nor MTN nor Vodacom can cover what ever speed to the whole country.
FACT: Not all Vodacom's 3G towers have been converted to 1.8 or even 3.6 Mbps
Again, the article is a joke
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
You do understand the difference between a 2G network and a 3G network, don't you?
Mier
Expert Member
I don't quite see the point of this argument.
FACT: There are areas were Vodacom have no coverage - better exclude them from the article
FACT: There are areas were MTN have no coverage - better exclude them from the article
FACT: There are areas were Telkom cannot offer ADSL - better exclude them from the article
FACT: There are areas were iBurst have no coverage - better exclude them from the article
Come to think of it, it's unreasonable to make ANY comparison between the telecom suppliers, because none of them cover every squire milli-meter of the country.
FACT: There are areas were Vodacom have no coverage - better exclude them from the article
FACT: There are areas were MTN have no coverage - better exclude them from the article
FACT: There are areas were Telkom cannot offer ADSL - better exclude them from the article
FACT: There are areas were iBurst have no coverage - better exclude them from the article
Come to think of it, it's unreasonable to make ANY comparison between the telecom suppliers, because none of them cover every squire milli-meter of the country.
Pitbull
Verboten
The problem is the comparisons that was made. Instead of saying Provider A charges so much per GB and provide speeds from A - B at this rate.
They go and pannelbeat the article in favour of a set provider
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Mier
Expert Member
The problem is the comparisons that was made. Instead of saying Provider A Charges so much per GB and provide speeds from A - B at this rate.
They go and pannelbeat the article in favour of a set provider
I agree that the article put Vodacom in the best possible light, but depending or your needs, Vodacom is not necessarily the best option for you.
Personally, I reckon that, if you need mobility Vodacom 3G is the best option. It's fact that their 3G (HSPA) coverage is superior to MTN.
However, for fixed/home use, nothing beats ADSL.
Pitbull
Verboten
I think we need a poll to see if other people also find this article to be bias
IC how about a poll ?
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
I think you're making the same fundamental mistake as Turiko, i.e. confusing the 2G and 3G networks (of both MTN and Vodacom).
Your argument applies equally to both MTN and Vodacom. Neither covers the whole country with 3G, but this was not the point of the article, if I read it correctly.
Rather it compared MTN's 3G network with Vodacom's 3G network on a price/performance measurement. (Leaving the others out for a sec
).I would assume the author pegged VC's network at 3.6 as VC publicly stated that their complete 3G network is 3.6, as I've just done again.
In contrast, MTN have not made such a statement and have not answered the question even when asked directly.
Knowing journalists, they'll then work with the official information at hand, i.e. the last stated fact. Which I assume, in this case, means that MTN has a 1.8M 3G network country-wide. I assume they've upgrade all their 3G towers to 1.8?
Can you please substantiate this statement of yours"
I just phoned the following people and every single on of them seems to think that all 3G towers are on 3.6 (at least).
Andries - Vodacom SA Chief Operating Officer
Shane - Managing Executive: Engineering
Johan - Managing Executive: Operations
Christo - Executive Head: Network Quality
Pedro - Specialist: Network Quality
Now these are the 5 top guys in the company when it comes to the radio network design and roll-out. And they all confirmed the 3.6 status of the 3G network.
But please send me any info you might have to the contrary.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
Tx, fixed.
A few thousand, not sure of the last published number. As a % of population, it's more than 25% last time I looked.
For where they are, check out the coverage map on vodacom.co.za.
Pitbull
Verboten
I've told you before and showed you I know the difference
You name these people and label them as confirming that all 3G BTS's has been updated
Pls ask your network guys to go check the tower serving Danville - Pretoria bordering on the road "Rod street" between Elandspoort and Danville.
I was at a friends place over the weekend using a 6110 Navigator there was nothing more than 3G..... not 1.8Mbps nor was there 3.6 Mbps
I was installing WoW for him and wanted to test his latency on different networks.
So pls, I want you to confirm for me now that the tower in that area has HSDPA
You name these people and label them as confirming that all 3G BTS's has been updated
Pls ask your network guys to go check the tower serving Danville - Pretoria bordering on the road "Rod street" between Elandspoort and Danville.
I was at a friends place over the weekend using a 6110 Navigator there was nothing more than 3G..... not 1.8Mbps nor was there 3.6 Mbps
I was installing WoW for him and wanted to test his latency on different networks.
So pls, I want you to confirm for me now that the tower in that area has HSDPA
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bekdik
Honorary Master
Why not solve the dispute by adding extra entries to the table. For instance Telkom 384 isn't included in 3Gig. In the case of the cell offerings, simply include all speed comparisions, this way a punter could confirm the speed available to him/her and the cost thereof - I, when looking at this kind of table in order to ascertain my provider, would certainly only be interested in what affects me and not the rest of the country.
