Building under construction collapses in George

airborne said:
90% foreign nationals, that construction site must have been up to sht.
I've seen some very competent Zim builders but that's small time house renovation teams, for a professional builder to have such a large contingent of foreigners suggests many if not most of the team had no locally certified qualifications or experience.
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On all commerical constructions sites contarctors are forced to use local labour, higher percentage on public projects but still required on private proejcts or your site just gets shut down (usually unskilled and the irony is its often foreign labour and the ward councillor / construction mafia just get a cut). These labourers usually stick to specific trades (plaster, paint, tiling) and often brickwork but never specialist trades like electrical, mechaincal, crane operations etc
 
TheChamp said:
That should not complicate anything in a proper workplace, no one should ever be in there and not accounted for
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In my field, we often have thousands of people on-site and close to 100 contractors. During scheduled evacuation drills, there has never been an issue of unaccounted people because that will often trigger a major investigation. There are systems, and processes to manage that aspect in a far more complex environment. It's a matter of implementation of the system and diligence.

Having said that, in 2020, a mine collapsed and buried people. I was called to assist with the geotechnical evaluation that informed the search mission (took 18 months to get the last person out). There was panic in terms of accounting on who was onsite at 1 am when the collapse happened. It took them 2hrs to fully account for the people.

In this particular operation, the insurance claim was over R100 million and that money was paid for the recovery operations. In the Thabazimbi mine 2015 collapse, the insurance claim was R2 billion.

I wonder how are these building construction sites insured for business catastrophic risks.
 
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purple face said:
They have found someone is still alive it's one of the tillers he has weights on his legs though.

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What type of weights? Why was he wearing weights? Is this like a tiling & gym thing combined?
 
Spizz said:
Interesting. As I mentioned in an earlier post I doubts about the props.

Also the more I see the photo of that column and the collapsed slabs some distance away from it, the more I think there was nowhere near enough reinforcement to tie it into the slab. I don't see any of it in the pic and there should have been quite heavy mats around the columns, so most likely design. Having said that, any civil engineer with at least a couple of years site experience should know what will work and what won't just be looking at it. That again comes down to inexperience or incompetence.
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Those columns did not seem to have sufficient rebar projecting high enough for proper development into the slab. No sign of any links or shear reinforcing, but it could be just the pictures.

My first comment after seeing those columns was it looked like the building slipped off those columns.

The contractor had clearly just landed a few pallets of bricks onto the top slab. I wonder if that was the straw that broke its back.
 
buka001 said:
Those columns did not seem to have sufficient rebar projecting high enough for proper development into the slab. No sign of any links or shear reinforcing, but it could be just the pictures.

My first comment after seeing those columns was it looked like the building slipped off those columns.

The contractor had clearly just landed a few pallets of bricks onto the top slab. I wonder if that was the straw that broke its back.
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I too was looking at those columns, The amount of rebar looked a bit sketchy.

But I'll say zip at this stage, so many things it could have been. Strange things happen during construction sometimes. I remember FNB bank city collapsing on the one north side side after a pillar gave way at ground level as they were building, quite a few levels up already. A dump truck had hit the pillar. :X3:
 
Koning Witou Solomon said:
I too was looking at those columns, The amount of rebar looked a bit sketchy.

But I'll say zip at this stage, so many things it could have been. Strange things happen during construction sometimes. I remember FNB bank city collapsing on the one north side side after a pillar gave way at ground level as they were building, quite a few levels up already. A dump truck had hit the pillar. :X3:
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OMG, here come the highly qualified engineer internet experts. You have clearly done your expert calculations. I'll forward your details onto the television news networks so you can give your expert opinion.
 
genetic said:
OMG, here come the highly qualified engineer internet experts. You have clearly done your expert calculations. I'll forward your details onto the television news networks so you can give your expert opinion.
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Wow! So triggered! Maybe try reading as a skill and get to paragraph two (hopefully your math skills are better than your reading skills), then we can discuss it further. ;)
 
Koning Witou Solomon said:
Wow! So triggered! Maybe try reading as a skill and get to paragraph two (hopefully your math skills are better than your reading skills), then we can discuss it further. ;)
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What about the rebar looked sketchy to you?

Was it the type of rebar used, or was it the reinforcement ratio to concrete?

Did they use carbon steel instead of HSD? Maybe they used plain stainless steel when they should have used an epoxy coating?

What was sketchy about it?
 
genetic said:
Tell me more about the rebar... I'm seriously interested.
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genetic said:
What about the rebar looked sketchy to you?

Was it the type of rebar used, or was it the reinforcement ratio to concrete?

Did they use carbon steel instead of HSD? Maybe they used plain stainless steel when they should have used an epoxy coating?

What was sketchy about it?
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OMG, here come the highly qualified engineer internet experts.

Let's first have a chat about your reading skills.
 
Koning Witou Solomon said:
OMG, here come the highly qualified engineer internet experts.

Let's first have a chat about your reading skills.
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No really? I'm seriously interested! What about the rebar is sketchy? And what about my reading skills is bad? Please enlighten me on both. You mentioned the amount of rebar in the columns looked insufficient, and I want to know why you said that?

Were you referencing horizontal or lateral forces? What is the standard amount of rebar used considering the type of rebar used for the horizontal and lateral forces exerted on the structure? Or did they used an inferior and untreated carbon steel instead of stainless steel? Were the joints maybe bad? Lack of epoxy coating?

I'm not an engineer at all, so really want to hear your opinion. And I'm not singling you out at all. @buka001 can add his weight in too. You guys seem to be the experts.
 
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genetic said:
No really? I'm seriously interested! What about the rebar is sketchy? And what about my reading skills is bad? Please enlighten me on both. You mentioned the amount of rebar in the columns looked insufficient, and I want to know why you said that?

Were you referencing horizontal or lateral forces? What is the standard amount of rebar used considering the type of rebar used for the horizontal and lateral forces exerted on the structure? Or did they used an inferior and untreated carbon steel instead of stainless steel? Were the joints maybe bad? Lack of epoxy coating?

I'm not an engineer at all, so really want to hear your opinion.
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Great to hear you're not an engineer at all, I am, even though not in civil engineering or like, but experience in various associated environments.

Now back to your reading skills, phone a friend to help you with that:

Koning Witou Solomon said:
But I'll say zip at this stage, so many things it could have been.
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Gaan soek nou vir jou kak elders.
 
Koning Witou Solomon said:
Great to hear you're not an engineer at all, I am, even though not in civil engineering or like, but experience in various associated environments.

Now back to your reading skills, phone a friend to help you with that:



Gaan soek nou vir jou kak elders.
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Ok, so you're talking out of your ass, Mr. Rebar internet expert. Just needed the confirmation.
 
genetic said:
No really? I'm seriously interested! What about the rebar is sketchy? And what about my reading skills is bad? Please enlighten me on both. You mentioned the amount of rebar in the columns looked insufficient, and I want to know why you said that?

Were you referencing horizontal or lateral forces? What is the standard amount of rebar used considering the type of rebar used for the horizontal and lateral forces exerted on the structure? Or did they used an inferior and untreated carbon steel instead of stainless steel? Were the joints maybe bad? Lack of epoxy coating?

I'm not an engineer at all, so really want to hear your opinion. And I'm not singling you out at all. @buka001 can add his weight in too. You guys seem to be the experts.
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Some of us actually do this for a living. And as discussed right throughout the thread, when you look at those columns and how the slab has separated from them, something isn’t right.

And FYI, my expertise doesn’t come from the Internet but from a university degree in civil engineering followed by 30 odd years of building schit like this.
 
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