Building under construction collapses in George

Yeah they said on the radio that the owner of the building cannot be found.
No one at their address.
 
Screenshot 2024-05-10 092217.jpg

From the last article posted. There is no way they got to the level they are working at by following the standard rate of construction if the construction started 1 Jan 2024.

Looks like the design/plans were ony signed off after the major structural elements were constructed. Something doesn't sound right.

Anyone know the actual date of the start of construction?
 
marco79 said:
View attachment 1706745

From the last article posted. There is no way they got to the level they are working at by following the standard rate of construction if the construction started 1 Jan 2024.

Looks like the design/plans were ony signed off after the major structural elements were constructed. Something doesn't sound right.

Anyone know the actual date of the start of construction?
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Live in George

I exercise right across the street of Victoria Street, every day I drive back home, it seems like this build never stopped, it was full blast every day. After a month, I started questioning how it's possible to move this fast, especially a building of this size. Then again, I'm not a civil engineer, so I kept my comment there and left it.

But yes, as you stated, something doesn't sound right, and from my point of view, it didn't look right as well.
 
There is definitely something off about this whole thing without a doubt (I mean the damn building collapsed), but the shenanigans that seem to have happened before and now afterwards point to something odd.
 
ShaunSA said:
There's something vrot here. Hopefully the truth emerges

Having said that it doesn't seem like the truth sees the light of day much here
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Very very vrot.
I know people are angry with the foreigners that were killed and injured but does it matter. They are innocent people just working.
 
Solarion said:
It's really great to read the feedback from some of you guys in the civil and building industry. Much appreciated.
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It's a bit frustrating reading some of the comments such as thin columns and the one tweet about the brickwork under the slab, but without the plans we can't know if any of these brick walls are load bearing and structural for example, so they would be built before the slab is cast (unusual in a building like this but not wrong per se) and also without the strength of the concrete in the columns and diameter of rebar, we can only again guess. Basement and lower columns are often (for example) 40Mpa concrete and 12 or 16mm rebar, higher up with less loads, 30MPa concrete and 10mm. I'm not saying that's what it is here, just simplifying the point. And if some brick walls are load bearing then there would be less of a need for bigger columns, again, just simplifying things. The amount of bricks in the photo there is no way they would all be load bearing, but just explaining the principle.

Also, about the concrete, typically the concrete is tested when it is poured by means of a slump test which measures the consistency of the concrete and judging by how much the concrete 'slumps' it is deemed suitable for purpose or not. Some samples are also taken which are cured and crushed in a lab after typically 7 and 28 days to give an indication of the strength. The 7 day concrete is typically 65-70% of the 28 day strength, so we can have an idea if the concrete is going to reach the designed strength at 28 days or not.

But yeah, I've actually avoided the thread a bit otherwise I'd be here all day commenting on other posts :p
 
Spizz said:
It's a bit frustrating reading some of the comments such as thin columns and the one tweet about the brickwork under the slab, but without the plans we can't know if any of these brick walls are load bearing and structural for example, so they would be built before the slab is cast (unusual in a building like this but not wrong per se) and also without the strength of the concrete in the columns and diameter of rebar, we can only again guess. Basement and lower columns are often (for example) 40Mpa concrete and 12 or 16mm rebar, higher up with less loads, 30MPa concrete and 10mm. I'm not saying that's what it is here, just simplifying the point. And if some brick walls are load bearing then there would be less of a need for bigger columns, again, just simplifying things. The amount of bricks in the photo there is no way they would all be load bearing, but just explaining the principle.

Also, about the concrete, typically the concrete is tested when it is poured by means of a slump test which measures the consistency of the concrete and judging by how much the concrete 'slumps' it is deemed suitable for purpose or not. Some samples are also taken which are cured and crushed in a lab after typically 7 and 28 days to give an indication of the strength. The 7 day concrete is typically 65-70% of the 28 day strength, so we can have an idea if the concrete is going to reach the designed strength at 28 days or not.

But yeah, I've actually avoided the thread a bit otherwise I'd be here all day commenting on other posts :p
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Thanks Spizz. They are building an apartment complex just next to me, quite similar to the one that collapsed, about 4 floors. It's great to hear the details and science behind it. Preparing the land itself took around a month to prepare the land aka bulldozer and built it all up to a certain level about 2 meters higher, installing main water drainage pipes for rain water etc. After that they let it sit for a month, and now the builders have moved in. These builders work fast. After 1 week, the first floor of 1/8 apartments, the walls are about a meter high, so maybe about halfway.

I did not see them digging foundations which they surely must have done while I wasn't paying attention. That took about 3 days to dig and lay foundations. It all seems really rushed though.
 
marco79 said:
View attachment 1706745

From the last article posted. There is no way they got to the level they are working at by following the standard rate of construction if the construction started 1 Jan 2024.

Looks like the design/plans were ony signed off after the major structural elements were constructed. Something doesn't sound right.

Anyone know the actual date of the start of construction?
Click to expand...

No idea but assume Janaury. Speed of construction would depends on the type of design columns and slabs (slighlty quicker) or load bearing brickwork, maybe a precast solution was used which is even quicker. Generally slap to slab takes 10-15 days from a program perspective (conventional slab and columbs) but a safe rule of thumb is one month per floor+ 3 months finishing. E.g a 5 story building should take 8 months and a 10 story building 13 months.
 
Solarion said:
Thanks Spizz. They are building an apartment complex just next to me, quite similar to the one that collapsed, about 4 floors. It's great to hear the details and science behind it. Preparing the land itself took around a month to prepare the land aka bulldozer and built it all up to a certain level about 2 meters higher, installing main water drainage pipes for rain water etc. After that they let it sit for a month, and now the builders have moved in. These builders work fast. After 1 week, the first floor of 1/8 apartments, the walls are about a meter high, so maybe about halfway.

I did not see them digging foundations which they surely must have done while I wasn't paying attention. That took about 3 days to dig and lay foundations. It all seems really rushed though.
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It might seem alarming if it’s going quickly, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad. It just needs competent people looking after it and in this case I’d imagine that was a failing along with who knows what else. Could also be house builders turning to construction and as mentioned earlier, the methodology is very different.
 
G'Wobblez said:
they stole the jobs, these people wanted to be the ones trapped and dead...
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Well I suppose when you frame it like that, then I can be angry with the foreigners as well, they deprived SA of a great opportunity to cull the entitled and useless.
 
G'Wobblez said:
they stole the jobs, these people wanted to be the ones trapped and dead...
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if they stole the engineers job and put forth a sub standard design ,
stole the metal suppliers job supplying sub standard steel
stole the compentent person on sites job overseeing the prop work maybe

but as it stands most workers trappped are likely cheap labour following orders

imo it is next to impossible to say where things went wrong
unless you have up to date photos of all props of all levels on the day of collapse
and all neccesary lab results of steel and concrete
plus the location of all materials being moved during construction

it will take moths to years to get an answer
and even then it will be subject to a certain amount of guessing around prop work
the pace you would have to go to document everything, would mean a snails pace
happering rescue effort


so yea many make statements havimng no clue how building actually works

i'm not an expert probably only know enough to be dangerous
but at least i realise that this is far more complex than people think
 
Last edited:
So... my personal team of structural engineering experts brothers have worked with the engineer who signed off on this place.

I will quote their words:
I know this engineer well. Ironically he was shouting at me over the phone 3 weeks ago asking me for my calculations on a wall I had designed.
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We've dealt with him. his designs are fcuking sh¡t
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Under designs important sh¡t and overdesigns non critical sh¡t
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Constant issues basically
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I believe they took the props out after the roof slab had hit design strength and while removing the propping load transferred onto the transfer slab and either columns or the slab itself failed
Based on pictures I have see it looks woefully under- designed
This is why there were like 80 people in the building
They had 8 pound hammers removing the props on each level
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I am calling it; I think it was a design failure and not failure on the part of the contractors.
 
konfab said:
So... my personal team of structural engineering experts brothers have worked with the engineer who signed off on this place.

I will quote their words:





I am calling it; I think it was a design failure and not failure on the part of the contractors.
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Interesting. As I mentioned in an earlier post I doubts about the props.

Also the more I see the photo of that column and the collapsed slabs some distance away from it, the more I think there was nowhere near enough reinforcement to tie it into the slab. I don't see any of it in the pic and there should have been quite heavy mats around the columns, so most likely design. Having said that, any civil engineer with at least a couple of years site experience should know what will work and what won't just be looking at it. That again comes down to inexperience or incompetence.
 
Spizz said:
Interesting. As I mentioned in an earlier post I doubts about the props.

Also the more I see the photo of that column and the collapsed slabs some distance away from it, the more I think there was nowhere near enough reinforcement to tie it into the slab. I don't see any of it in the pic and there should have been quite heavy mats around the columns, so most likely design. Having said that, any civil engineer with at least a couple of years site experience should know what will work and what won't just be looking at it. That again comes down to inexperience or incompetence.
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yea my theory is you would expect to see a mushroom head on the pillar as that is where it is suppose to be strongest as that is where all the weight gets transferred to pillar
it looks to clean for me

though as slab after slab tear over it could be broken down
 
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