Building under construction collapses in George

Those articles seem to imply that both the municipal officials and the construction managers were colluding to bypass regulations?
 
airborne said:
Those articles seem to imply that both the municipal officials and the construction managers were colluding to bypass regulations?
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The exact levels of blame are hard to determine without a detailed legal inquiry (some names were listed early in this thread). What is clear is that none of the normal processes were followed. We don't know the actual trigger for failure, but that seems almost irrelevant given all the rules being broken.
 
Gordon_R said:
The exact levels of blame are hard to determine without a detailed legal inquiry (some names were listed early in this thread). What is clear is that none of the normal processes were followed. We don't know the actual trigger for failure, but that seems almost irrelevant given all the rules being broken.
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I'm not sure that the two are even linked; broken rules and the trigger. Most likely is either design, materials or construction, or a combination, external events like earthquake etc can be excluded methinks. The "report" or its summary, doesn't appear to deal with these at all that I have seen. Having inspectors, municipal or NHBRC, to pick up issues is unlikely IMHO, even if they were well qualified and had the time. The "trigger" as I see it is the moment the loads exceed the strength (duh) so one of the two, maybe both, need checking.
 
Oldfut said:
I'm not sure that the two are even linked; broken rules and the trigger. Most likely is either design, materials or construction, or a combination, external events like earthquake etc can be excluded methinks. The "report" or its summary, doesn't appear to deal with these at all that I have seen. Having inspectors, municipal or NHBRC, to pick up issues is unlikely IMHO, even if they were well qualified and had the time. The "trigger" as I see it is the moment the loads exceed the strength (duh) so one of the two, maybe both, need checking.
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If you read the News24 article, none of the people on the project had appropriate qualifications. A home-builder cannot calculate the loads and structural strength of a 4 storey reinforced concrete building. Nor can they do the required inspections of rebar size and spacing, concrete slump testing and hardening periods etc. The minister did not say so (for legal reasons), but it is obvious to any objective observer that the issues are connected.

I'm not an expert, but have watched a 4 storey building go up across the road from me, and it takes a lot of time and expense to do properly. Cut either of these factors, and bad things happen.
 
Gordon_R said:
If you read the News24 article, none of the people on the project had appropriate qualifications. A home-builder cannot calculate the loads and structural strength of a 4 storey reinforced concrete building. Nor can they do the required inspections of rebar size and spacing, concrete slump testing and hardening periods etc. The minister did not say so (for legal reasons), but it is obvious to any objective observer that the issues are connected.

I'm not an expert, but have watched a 4 storey building go up across the road from me, and it takes a lot of time and expense to do properly. Cut either of these factors, and bad things happen.
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Would also imply major failures on the part of the private architects & town planners + municipal building office, urban planning division and engineering division.

From the sounds of it, the 4-storey building was constructed without any of the necessary building controls (zoning certificates etc) being in place beforehand.
 
Architect is normally the principle agent on a project. When trouble hits the fan, he has to report.
Work goes out on tender for ground works building plumbing electrical flooring etc.
Cheapest installer / contractor wins.

On building core concrete samples need to be tested on each batch. So they should have this documentation.

Then we the construction mafia / and government that forces builders to use 25 % of labour has to be done by local unskilled Workers.

So tell me why this went wrong.
 
qscwbt said:
Architect is normally the principle agent on a project. When trouble hits the fan, he has to report.
Work goes out on tender for ground works building plumbing electrical flooring etc.
Cheapest installer / contractor wins.

On building core concrete samples need to be tested on each batch. So they should have this documentation.

Then we the construction mafia / and government that forces builders to use 25 % of labour has to be done by local unskilled Workers.

So tell me why this went wrong.
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I see this different an architects dreams becomes an builder / engineers headache

The engineer has to make sure the structure can handle the weight

The NHBR is pathetic

They love to push the responsability to the engineer

The municiipal inspectors even more so

a paper not being filled in correctly doesn't topple a building unless it is the engineers drawing or the bend list
 
qscwbt said:
Architect is normally the principle agent on a project. When trouble hits the fan, he has to report.
Click to expand...
Not in Africa anymore. Here it is whatever is the "cheapest", which ends up being the builder or developer or in government projects or large projects, the BBBEE beneficiary. Architects are now only slightly "better" than a draftsman in the role that they play.
 
So in summary:

A home builder was building a 5 story building using unskilled labour.

No plans was approved and building inspectors were incapable of doing their jobs due to the technical nature of the building?

All directors of the company responsible resigned.

Anyway, who is going to jail?
 
rh1 said:
So in summary:

A home builder was building a 5 story building using unskilled labour.

No plans was approved and building inspectors were incapable of doing their jobs due to the technical nature of the building?

All directors of the company responsible resigned.

Anyway, who is going to jail?
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Resigning as director does not absolve your responsibility
 
If I was any of the directors I would liquidate my assets move to a country with no extradition...... Pronto...... 30 odd deaths is life in prison
 
RedViking said:
Not in Africa anymore. Here it is whatever is the "cheapest", which ends up being the builder or developer or in government projects or large projects, the BBBEE beneficiary. Architects are now only slightly "better" than a draftsman in the role that they play.
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Yea supervision is a % value

Many opt out

And on anything more than a garden wall

The push to competent person sign of is hard

Especially on anything other than single story brick

It was like this on my first home (timber home)
Nhbrc and building inspector alike

The problem is the engineer does the design inspects at key points

And signs of

So everybody probably handles it like ok someone else is taking reaponsibility

So inbetween inspections anything goes?
 
Bumping as the report was released (April)

This little titbit is absolute damning.

Geotechnical and Engineering Assessment deficiencies

The geotechnical report provided did not include crucial information such as trial pit locations, Dynamic Cone Penetrometer (DCP) test results and geological maps. This information is essential for foundation design and site preparation.
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https://www.gov.za/news/media-state...-final-report-george-building-collapse-09-apr


In other words, they had no idea how strong the soil was that they were building on. That is actually worth culpable homicide for any engineer who signed off.
 
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