Buthelezi slams affirmative action

Bageloo said:
Screwed over by the old government, YES. Screwed over by the new, NO. How do you classify yourself? The EEA1 form calls for voluntary self-classification on the part of the employee. If an employee is "mixed race", the designation he/she volunteers must be used. If the employer must make the choice, he/she is advised to put the employee in the "designated group" category - in other words, black.
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The only legal classification of ethnic Chinese origin dates back to 1953. we were classified as a sub-group of the Coloured group. The new government doesn't want to know this. :mad:

They are arrogant and disingenous...
 
icyrus said:
Well that depends on what the goal of SA is. We were told it was to build a united "rainbow" nation where everyone is equal but it seems like that is being replaced with the idea that some are more equal than others. How quickly that dream of mandela's was lost.
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Everyone is indeed equal in most spheres of life except in the economic world where the inequalities still prevail.

icyrus said:
The majority of blacks will be unequal participants in the economy for many generations to come.
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Not if the current AA and BEE policies are carried on. You see at some point in the future the participants in the economy will be representative of the population. When every company is compliant with the AA/ BEE regulations we will have no further need for it. As of today very few are even making an effort to comply.
icyrus said:
Apartheid was to blame for the current levels of uneducated masses - but who will you blame when those born after 1994 are still just as uneducated?
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Both the ANC and the apartheid gvt. As of today we are still seeing the residual effets of apartheid in the schooling system. So yes we will blame the current GVT for failing to deal with those effects.


icyrus said:
And you conveniently ignore the next question from my post:
How do you determine "whiteness"?
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self determination, I've posted this already.
 
Bageloo : please, think about that. the ANC have had 13 years to start fixing the education system, and all they've managed to do is to make it a complete laughing stock.... instead of their being 3 different education systems with varying levels of success, we have 1 that is just rubbish from start to finish... How is that anything to do with the Apartheid Gov?
 
Bageloo said:
Everyone is indeed equal in most spheres of life except in the economic world where the inequalities still prevail.
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You are equal or you are not. End of story.

Bageloo said:
Not if the current AA and BEE policies are carried on.
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Rubbish. AA and BEE, aside from being spectacular failures in their own right, do not address the core issue of people being uneducated. You can't give an uneducated person a job because of skin colour.

Bageloo said:
You see at some point in the future the participants in the economy will be representative of the population. When every company is compliant with the AA/ BEE regulations we will have no further need for it. As of today very few are even making an effort to comply.
Both the ANC and the apartheid gvt. As of today we are still seeing the residual effets of apartheid in the schooling system. So yes we will blame the current GVT for failing to deal with those effects.
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This sort of thinking I will never understand. Why must every company be representative? The goal should be that any person can get any job as long as they are qualified. Adding these ridiculous quotas will result in situations where people of certain races/genders are not drawn to a job but they can't accept people of another certain race/gender as they have to make quotas - leaving the positions empty. For example I heard that this is happening with new surgeons in this country.

Bageloo said:
self determination, I've posted this already.
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Pay attention. I asked:

"What if a white person classifies themselves as black? Then what?"

Then you replied:

"If the employer must make the choice"

So I asked again:

"How do you determine "whiteness"?"

And here we are. If a white person classifies them self as black, then what?
 
abc said:
Indeed, I am not proud of the comment, but .....

http://www.rlynn.co.uk/pages/article_intelligence/t4.asp

..... how you explain this:p
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Idiot. Dr Richard Lynn is not an authority on intelligence and race but rather a crackpot scientist who believes that the lighter you are the more intelligent you will be amongst other things.

"Lynn's work on global racial differences in cognitive ability, mostly surveys of other scientists' studies, has been criticized for its associated measurement difficulties, and some critics have accused Lynn of misrepresenting the data or racism."

Do thorough research.
 
@Bageloo: What if one is 'black' and becomes an SA citizen after 1994? Do they get preference even tho they were not discriminated by the former regime?
 
Rooinek said:
Idiot. Dr Richard Lynn is not an authority on intelligence and race but rather a crackpot scientist who believes that the lighter you are the more intelligent you will be amongst other things.
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Idiot/moron/retard are all offensive terms. I didn't know this either until a friend pointed it out...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/idiot
n.

1. A foolish or stupid person.
2. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
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icyrus said:
Rubbish. AA and BEE, aside from being spectacular failures in their own right, do not address the core issue of people being uneducated. You can't give an uneducated person a job because of skin colour.
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Which BEE or AA policy says one has to give an uneducated person a job because of skin colour?

How has AA and BEE been a spectacular failure in their own right. It would be an interesting discussion, I think.
 
ryan411 said:
Idiot/moron/retard are all offensive terms. I didn't know this either until a friend pointed it out...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/idiot
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If you use a very shady reference to reinforce some borderline prejudiced perceptions, surely, a mild term denoting stupidity should be used to label you.

Anyway, how can you take a moral high ground and be patronizing? quite a difficult and insincere position I think.
 
dlk001 said:
Which BEE or AA policy says one has to give an uneducated person a job because of skin colour?
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I never said there was one, the comment was a response to bageloo's assumption that BEE and AA would solve the problem of the vast majority of the population being uneducated.

dlk001 said:
How has AA and BEE been a spectacular failure in their own right. It would be an interesting discussion, I think.
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BEE: who has benifited? Tokyo and cyril and a few other connected party memebers have become fabulously rich. How has BEE helped the man in the street?

AA: was the goal not to bring equality to SA? So far all I can see is further racial divisions. AA is less of a failure then BEE due to the fact that it has most likely helped a few people, but like BEE it is not designed to help the average person.
 
icyrus said:
I never said there was one, the comment was a response to bageloo's assumption that BEE and AA would solve the problem of the vast majority of the population being uneducated.
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:rolleyes: Sorry then. I do not believe BEE and AA will solve education problems.
Education should be treated as a separate matter because BEE and AA will always need a supply of the right people.

icyrus said:
BEE: who has benifited? Tokyo and cyril and a few other connected party memebers have become fabulously rich. How has BEE helped the man in the street?
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Not every man on the streets is entitled to a BEE deal with a company. I for one, I'm not interested in a BEE deal with any company at the moment. Does that mean I'm not benefiting?

However, when the benefits and dividends of the broad based deals payout, people other than Tokyo will benefit.

icyrus said:
AA: was the goal not to bring equality to SA? So far all I can see is further racial divisions. AA is less of a failure then BEE due to the fact that it has most likely helped a few people, but like BEE it is not designed to help the average person.
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Is this your personal opinion or some research that shows AA is not addressing the issues of HDSA individuals?
 
Rooinek said:
If you use a very shady reference to reinforce some borderline prejudiced perceptions, surely, a mild term denoting stupidity should be used to label you.

Anyway, how can you take a moral high ground and be patronizing? quite a difficult and insincere position I think.
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What moral high ground are u talking about? I was merely pointing out that the term idiot, is the equivalent of calling someone a 'retard'. Anyone that personally knows someone that is mentally handicapped would not be impressed with you.

I'm sorry if u felt I was trying to patronise you. That is not the case.
 
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dlk001 said:
Why 1994? Is that the year discrimination against Blacks stopped?
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No, the new government discriminates just as much at me now as the previous government did. But that's beside the point.

By 1994 I meant the year that SA got democracy. Take a chill pill dude...
Edit: If tempers don't cool down, this thread is gonna get nuked by the moderators just like the 'It's because I am black' thread...
 
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ryan411 said:
No, the new government discriminates just as much at me now as the previous government did. But that's beside the point.

By 1994 I meant the year that SA got democracy. Take a chill pill dude...
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What does "take a chill pill" mean? I'm having a beer to chill down on this warm weather if that's what you intended. I'll leave the pill for those who need it.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about discrimination not democracy.
 
Rooinek said:
Idiot. Dr Richard Lynn is not an authority on intelligence and race but rather a crackpot scientist who believes that the lighter you are the more intelligent you will be amongst other things.

"Lynn's work on global racial differences in cognitive ability, mostly surveys of other scientists' studies, has been criticized for its associated measurement difficulties, and some critics have accused Lynn of misrepresenting the data or racism."

Do thorough research.
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Well, well, well, see what is crawling out here:D

I bet liberals could show just the opposite statistics, which the world is pleased to see:sick:

If this stats would not be right by an error margin of +-10 points, BEE and AA would be the greatest worldwide success, giving the PDI a huge head-start:rolleyes:
 
ToxicBunny said:
Bageloo : please, think about that. the ANC have had 13 years to start fixing the education system, and all they've managed to do is to make it a complete laughing stock.... instead of their being 3 different education systems with varying levels of success, we have 1 that is just rubbish from start to finish... How is that anything to do with the Apartheid Gov?
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I agree but for now we can still blame apartheid for the levels of education prevailing amongst those seeking employment. Remember those that were born into democracy are only 13 this year. Almost all of job seekers other than those coming from other countries, are a product of apartheid. That includes you and me, unless you happen to be 13 and looking for work.
 
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