Cape Independence!

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What do you base your argument on?? You trying to say that ppl down here wouldn't support secession. Based on what?
 
Based on the fact that over 50% of the population voted in the DA, nearly 32% of the population voted for the ANC, 9% of the population voted for COPE, 4% of the population voted for the Independant Democrats.

that by my calculation is approximately 95% of the population of the WC that voted for parties that do NOT have a policy of independence of the WC.
 
The Cape Party used this past election to get the message "out there" and was their main objective. I think they were pretty successful since everyone seems to be talking about it (anecdotal evidence). Do not ignore that a lot of ex-pats (like myself) would ideally only come back to a safer, more prosperous South Africa. Realistically that's never going to happen (not in my lifetime anyway), and the best option open to us is an independent Cape.
 
Retrobok : I'm not for one second saying people aren't talking about it...

But when push comes to shove, I'm pretty damn sure that it won't happen, not in my lifetime. People are talking about it like a utopia, but if they were forced to make a choice... I seriously doubt the majority of people would choose an independent Cape
 
apart from a few posters in seapoint, a couple of topics here a a group on facebook this doesn't seem to be a "real" thing. when are you guys planning to get this done? next election? what about people who aren't on mybb?how you going to let them know?
 
Silver-0-surfer said:
apart from a few posters in seapoint, a couple of topics here a a group on facebook this doesn't seem to be a "real" thing. when are you guys planning to get this done? next election? what about people who aren't on mybb?how you going to let them know?
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First port of call is their website dude...
It's a real living breathing "thing" mate, they stood in the elections and actually received votes. News is starting to filter through to the U.K. while not mainstream yet it will get there. I don't think the aim is for next election, however I'm not privvy to their strategy I do know however that the last election was an educational manifesto and the next one would be to build on the support they have.

They are getting mention on a lot of well visited Blogs etc I'm sure they will break into "mainstream" soon.

Yes at the moment people are "talking" about it, maybe waiting to see if anything concrete is going to be done.

As to whether there's going to be any conflict involved, realistically I think there will be. But it does remain to be seen.

Don't forget the Cape Colony, Natal, Transvaal, and Orange Free State were all independent countries at one stage, so they do have a case of sorts. More so than the other "old republics" since the culture in the Cape is a little more unique than in the other provinces.

As for the qualifying criteria, I think some people have got the wrong end of the stick. As far as I understand it an Independent Cape will welcome "immigrants" on condition that they "qualify" much like you would need to, to move to any other country.

It will be a question of baby steps, it definately will not be an overnight thing. It may take 10 years even longer but I'm sure it will be acheived in my life time, unlike a peaceful, crime free and prosperous S.A.

Honestly go Google the politcal system in Switzeralnd, (apart from being interesting) it's a very good model to follow, which is how they would run the Cape if independence is ever gained.

I for one will be supporting them and voting for them from now on, and will be spreading the word to fellow ex-pats as much as I can.
 
Retrobok : no offense but that is a bit of pie-in-the-sky thinknig if you think they'll gain their independence in your lifetime.

If the DA succeed in making the province a well run entity then the chances of gaining independence slip even further away.

As for how they would govern... so far their representative on this forum has shown a disturbing lack of political understanding of even the simplest of systems and has also been shown to use false statistics.
 
The logistics needed to make independance possible in the cape are insane.
We won't be south african anymore and we will need everything new,why would the south african government let a foreign state use its post offices,power stations,ports and all other government owned business for free?Then other countries would have to recognise us as a nation...You think travelling on a SA passport is bad?You will need a visa for every country out there.
What about people with families living in other provinces?
We will be taxed to hell to make up for the previous governments money.
The list goes on and on.
The aurgument for cape independance is very 'us vs them'.
The whole idea was plausible 200 years ago but not today.No sir.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Retrobok : no offense but that is a bit of pie-in-the-sky thinknig if you think they'll gain their independence in your lifetime.

If the DA succeed in making the province a well run entity then the chances of gaining independence slip even further away.

As for how they would govern... so far their representative on this forum has shown a disturbing lack of political understanding of even the simplest of systems and has also been shown to use false statistics.
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Yes at the moment I do agree pie in the sky, but I can't sit back and not try to make it happen. If in 5 years time it's amounted to nothing then fair dues at least I can say I tried ...

No offence taken :D

The DA as much as I'd love for them to make the province a well run entity, all indications are that the ANC et al will try and make that as difficult as possible if not impossible as evidenced by their rhetoric.

Not one hundred percent sure the person who is posting on this forum is a sanctioned representative, due to the factors you have pointed out. This is a forum where anyone can claim to be whomever they want. I get my information and form my opinion via their web site and personal mails sent to me by the founders of The Cape Party. I'm using this thread to discuss independence and nothing else. I will most definately not form any opinion of their aim from here, however I will "promote" what I think they are about. It's up to each individual to form their own opinion.

As an aside and if I remember correctly one of the founding members of the Cape Party studied politics at uni (and I could find a link if I wasn't feeling so lazy today) but it's easy to find on their website and or news articles connected to the last election.
 
theratman said:
The logistics needed to make independance possible in the cape are insane.
We won't be south african anymore and we will need everything new,why would the south african government let a foreign state use its post offices,power stations,ports and all other government owned business for free?Then other countries would have to recognise us as a nation...You think travelling on a SA passport is bad?You will need a visa for every country out there.
What about people with families living in other provinces?
We will be taxed to hell to make up for the previous governments money.
The list goes on and on.
The aurgument for cape independance is very 'us vs them'.
The whole idea was plausible 200 years ago but not today.No sir.
Click to expand...

I agree the logistics are a little "out there" however like I said I don't think this is going to be an overnight process. Just think back to pre 1994 and what people thought then, cue all the negotiations etc and look where S.A. went, no where near civil war, etc.... All these sorts of factors definately have to be discussed and dealt with in any long term strategy of the Cape Party and Cape independence.

I think we have to give them a chance to show us and explain how they would go about dealing with all these issues, and then we need to see some sort of progress, the same as we would any political party.

It's better to have tried and failed, than not tried at all - Quote by someone, somewhere, sometime.
 
Ahhh, I unfortunately can't read their site.. it insults my sensibilities to see a site that looks like it was dragged squarely out of 1995...... but thats another issue.

And yes, to a degree I think Cape_Independence is possibily not an official representative of them, but if he isn't they need to shut him up ASAP because he is hurting their cause with almost every post...
 
Toxic, bru, Im not a representative, and never said I was. You obviously assumed I was in order to use anything from my posts as you saw fit so as to use it to slam the Cape party in some way. Im not a political analyst or never studied politics, and never claimed to have. I am however passionate about Cape secession, and would like to discuss what I know here, which might not be much, but makes for conversation nonetheless. It can be an emotional topic, I understand bru, but something I support and always have, as this push towards Independence of the Cape is nothing new, and was raised before in the past. My grandfather talked of it often and was approached by a committee back in the day... What came of them I have no idea.

retroBok: How did you hear about it?
 
No I assumed you might be because of your username...

I am not slamming the Cape Party, I am slamming their quest for independence which I personally feel is based on skewed and biased assumptions, that will ultimately only hurt the WC and SA as a whole. We should all be working for a better country, not to try create some little enclave.

Why are you passionate about Cape secession? On what grounds do you feel its the Capes "right" to be a sovereign nation.
 
Ah I see...

Honestly I always have been mate. My parents have brought it up while I was growing up, as have friends and so on. It is not a new phenomenon, just the momentum that it has gained recently with the emergence of the Cape Party and the DA's win I think has put this issue in the limelight.

As to why: I just honestly think it will benefit us to leave the union, at least for now. I also think alot of people down here have seen huge changes in the Cape over the past 10 years or so, and just aren't happy with what they've seen, (im talking crime, mismanagement wise etc, not immigration, however of course to some extent they are linked.) I know alot of people down here are under the impression that the ANC have purposely been persuading people from the Eastern Cape to move down here in order to secure the vote, and I agree with them that this is exploitation and not democracy.

Having said that, I dont want to emphasize the issue of immigration. people down here are just generally fed up bru, honestly. I know that you will say that this statement is subjective, but that is my experience.
 
ToxicBunny said:
No I assumed you might be because of your username...

I am not slamming the Cape Party, I am slamming their quest for independence which I personally feel is based on skewed and biased assumptions, that will ultimately only hurt the WC and SA as a whole. We should all be working for a better country, not to try create some little enclave.

Why are you passionate about Cape secession? On what grounds do you feel its the Capes "right" to be a sovereign nation.
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+1.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Ahhh, I unfortunately can't read their site.. it insults my sensibilities to see a site that looks like it was dragged squarely out of 1995...... but thats another issue.

And yes, to a degree I think Cape_Independence is possibily not an official representative of them, but if he isn't they need to shut him up ASAP because he is hurting their cause with almost every post...
Click to expand...

Mine too, and I have mentioned this to a rep of the Cape Party, however I go by that addage of judging a book by it's cover etc :D (Which is nothing like judging a movie by it's cover :-) ) It is an issue yes, I'm not sure how long the site has been up however either way it looks like it was done in a rush and not by a pro. Bear in mind they are a young party and they may not have the finances available to set up a kick a55 site just yet. They have assured me they are working on it.

And I'm happy to accept that for now...
 
People EVERYWHERE in this country are fed up Cape Independence.

Why don't you take that passion for doing something and put it to a good cause and help make the whole country better.

Trying to get secession for the WC will honestly just hurt the WC and SA in the long run. SA will be run by traditionally black parties, and I have a feeling the Cape Parties predominant membership is white (which is another reason I doubt the WC will ever get independence), so should the independence issue happen, the WC will pretty much constantly be at war with SA due to the racial tensions.
 
Efforts to make the country better are being sabotaged by the ANC, so it will be easier to try and do our own thing, away from them.

We would obviously try to make the whole South Africa a better place, but what we see as better, is not exactly what the ANC sees as better. That is why we would like them to do what they want on one side, and let us do what we want on the other.

To address your last paragraph; just don't make this about race, because its not.
 
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