Cape Independence!

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I've done a lot of reading and research (which of course does not make me an expert). I think the argument for the secession of the Cape has a case, whether it's a good case or not only time will tell. I like to think it's a good case, we will however have to watch, wait and see whether the movement will get support from the international community (another hurdle), gather enough support from within South Africa, and of course see whether the government of S.A. will allow it (At a guess no), it's going to be a waiting game, and the independence movement will have to time this perfectly right.

From anecdotal evidence only I think ex-pats like myself are very receptive to this, obviously without any studies one can only hazard a guess as to how many would actually move back to S.A./The Cape.

According to this source there are about 800 000 ex-pats.
For arguments sake let's say 10% of ex-pats state they will definately come back to an independent Cape, that's only 80 000 votes (10% is a very optimistic guess) not an earth shattering number, but still a significant number. That would give almost 2 seats in the provincial legislature of the WC. Add domestic votes (this election was approx 2500) and any other votes they can swing (they would need a mahusive campaign) and you can see there's a possibility to make some inroads towards independence.

As an aside, the party which can woo the vast majority of ex-pat votes for the next election stands a good chance. I happen to believe the DA and the Cape Party would be the most attractive of all parties. The biggest task of course is to rid ex-pats of their voter apathy.

They have 5 or so years to get their a55es into gear... we shall wait and see.
 
I have a question towards the guys advocating this secession. If the main reason to do this was becuase of incompetent goverment, I would assume the constitutional/legal framework would remain similar to SA? If not, what would change?
 
The Cape Party is an advocate of Direct Democracy, and believes all major laws, (such as the NHI that is now to be passed, or SA spending millions on arms deals,) are to be put to a referendum to the Cape People. The less govt. the better...
 
Ok, so effectively you're going to make everyone responsible for running the country, thereby occupying their valuable time so they can contribute to the economy less..

Sound VERY clever to me... promise.
 
Helen Zille's DA, got more votes than the Cape Party and her crowd are as hopeless as the ANC. Their policies are always the opposite to the ANC. Without the ANC, the DA wont have any policies and wouldnt be able to tie their own shoe-laces.

Any case, the Cape wouldnt manage without money from Gauteng. The gap between rich and poor would getter bigger resulted in potentially more instability. To maintain security you would have to become a police state which would make you unpopular with the international community. Other than the flatest mountain on the planet, what has the Cape got ?
 
zippy said:
Helen Zille's DA, got more votes than the Cape Party and her crowd are as hopeless as the ANC. Their policies are always the opposite to the ANC. Without the ANC, the DA wont have any policies and wouldnt be able to tie their own shoe-laces.
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???
You're not serious right.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Ok, so effectively you're going to make everyone responsible for running the country, thereby occupying their valuable time so they can contribute to the economy less..

Sound VERY clever to me... promise.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with an independent Cape wanting a very successful model like the Swiss one?
 
Mostly because the Swiss are a very educated population,

Whereas the majority of the WC are not.....
 
Yes a valid point, but not valid enough to not want the Swiss model, what you're in essence saying is that you need to be educated to have a successful political model..... That means S.A. as it is now is heading one way... See where I'm going with this? :D
 
RetroBok said:
Yes a valid point, but not valid enough to not want the Swiss model, what you're in essence saying is that you need to be educated to have a successful political model..... That means S.A. as it is now is heading one way... See where I'm going with this? :D
Click to expand...

I think what he saying is that comparing the Swiss with the WC is not apples with apples.
 
Precisely.. you can't compare the Swiss with the WC...

and trying to get a political model that the Swiss use (and from what I can gather, they're the only ones with a form of Direct Democracy), into an area that is getting used to a very different type of democracy will not only be hugely difficult, it will have many many years of problems.
 
No of course it's not, it never will be, however the political model of Switzerland working so well is not only due to their education but their individual rights.

If the voters are educated correctly (politically) and understand the model before they vote then it will be as successful as in Switzeralnd. The Governemnt serves the people, not the other way round. (Like in S.A.)
 
ToxicBunny said:
Precisely.. you can't compare the Swiss with the WC...

and trying to get a political model that the Swiss use (and from what I can gather, they're the only ones with a form of Direct Democracy), into an area that is getting used to a very different type of democracy will not only be hugely difficult, it will have many many years of problems.
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well then screw it, why have a few years of problems for the benefit of the future of the "WC".?
 
capetownguy said:
???
You're not serious right.
Click to expand...

I am. All the DA does is slag off the ANC. This is the biggest problem with South African politics. No credible opposition to the ANC, which explains why they get such a massive majority. The alternatives are hopeless
 
Have you read the DA's policies??
In many cases yes, the DA favours delivery as a policy over "plans" under the ANC.
 
I think theres a big difference between saying that the Cape party want to introduce Direct democracy as a model, and saying that they expect it to turn out like Switzerland overnight...

Any form of democracy will have its own style depending on its people and cultures, that is inevitable. Finding serious fault with Direct democracy as a mechanism and claiming that the WC people are not worthy or too uneducated to have a democratic system in place which favors libertarian ideals is a gross and unfair assumption.

The WC does, after all, have the highest education levels per Capita:

"The Western Cape is the most highly educated province with a very skilled workforce in comparison to any other African region. The high school graduation rate is consistently around 80%, higher than any other province. The province also boasts three internationally acclaimed universities, namely the University of Cape Town, Stellenbosch University and the University of the Western Cape."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Cape
 
You will NEVER run the Cape Colony like Switzerland... The democracy in play in this country atm is not perfect by a long shot, but a Direct Democracy would take a massive cultural shift to even vaguely work in the Cape Colony since the majority of the population are still tribal at the best of times. Its not an assumption, its a fact. Deal with it.

The Western Cape is no longer in discussion, you want independence, you take the Cape Colony as it was the day before it was dissolved into South Africa, which therefore includes the Eastern Cape, The North West and the Northern Cape, and I have a feeling that would change the socio economic structure of your little paradise quite considerably.
 
"...the majority of the population are still tribal at the best of times."

Your generalistions are grossly unfair and your contempt for the Cape is obvious.
 
Ok, do you live in a little rose coloured bubble?

The majority of this countries population is tribal, its a fact.. deal with it..

I have no contempt for the Cape, I do have contempt for ppl who live in a dream world though.
 
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