Cape Party Q&A

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larrychang said:
Did you see the part where I say those properties would suddenly be in a foreign country? Your powers of comprehension are severely lacking my friend.

Anyway, moving along - then there's the small matter of the elephant that is parliament being situated in a different country. That would be a bit weird seeing as SA's MPs would find themselves stuck in a foreign country.
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Dude seriously you have to get over the mindset this will happen over a day, there of course will be a transition period where they will have the chance to leave?
 
RetroBok said:
Yes they do know, they in my opinion were not specific enough with their answer. As far as I understand it, it's the whole Western Cape, some of the Northern Cape (Not sure which bits) and 6 (IIRC) municipal areas in the Eastern Cape......

Maybe that's something to put on their website? It would certainly make it clearer :D
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Yeah, they did mention that... but then wrapped that up in the name of the Republic of the Cape of Good Hope at 1910 when it was included into the then Union of SA....

2 small points....
There has NEVER been a Republic of the Cape of Good Hope.
at 1910, the Cape Colony was the entire ex Cape Province, not the selected little bit they're looking for.. something also tells me that the Western Cape, and the other selected municipalities they're looking for would just happen to be the ones that are not controlled by the ANC...
 
larrychang said:
Maybe you can ask them to add you to their officials list (maybe even their payroll). You have more plausible/mature explanations than this kid CI who is unable to see past his nose (must be the snot blocking his view).
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chang, your explanations are FAR from mature and lack serious substance. At least im man enough to apologise when Ive insulted someone unnecessarily...
 
Cape-Independence said:
chang, your explanations are FAR from mature and lack serious substance. At least im man enough to apologise when Ive insulted someone unnecessarily...
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I am just asking questions that will surely be asked of you by a lot of people on your campaign trail. I am not supplying explanations just asking questions.
 
Toxic: Yes, the Cape has never been a Republic, but did have its own parliament and did govern itself.
 
I do not support the idea of the cape being an independent country. Although I would like us to have a similar system to the US.

If each province/state could decide its own laws and have more independence from national government I think it would be good. Different parts of the country have different problems so laws could be set accordingly.
 
larrychang said:
I am just asking questions that will surely be asked of you by a lot of people on your campaign trail. I am not supplying explanations just asking questions.
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Yes, but i dont get personal dude, and were not face to face right now. Theres no need for name calling on either side.
 
Cape-Independence said:
Toxic: Yes, the Cape has never been a Republic, but did have its own parliament and did govern itself.
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That was not my point CI.

Your OFFICIAL rep, called it the Republic of the Cape of Good Hope....
which is some mythical place that has NEVER existed....

The Cape Province was called the Cape of Good Hope Province in the Union of South Africa, AFTER the Cape Colony was incorporated in 1910.

The fact that your official rep is so damn clueless on the history of the area shows an INCREDIBLE amount of incompetence in my opinion.
 
BrandonH said:
I do not support the idea of the cape being an independent country. Although I would like us to have a similar system to the US.

If each province/state could decide its own laws and have more independence from national government I think it would be good. Different parts of the country have different problems so laws could be set accordingly.
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I would definately support this, I think if the Cape at least became an autonomous region within SA, free to pass our own laws, have our own political structure and parties, that most of our concerns expressed here would diminish.

However, there have been promises, yet no ones attempts at trying to achieve this makes me think we should just opt for secession. Or to rephrase, I would rather support the CP's attempts at Independence vs. the DA's policy of keeping the status quo on a provincial level.
 
ToxicBunny said:
That was not my point CI.

Your OFFICIAL rep, called it the Republic of the Cape of Good Hope....
which is some mythical place that has NEVER existed....

The Cape Province was called the Cape of Good Hope Province in the Union of South Africa, AFTER the Cape Colony was incorporated in 1910.

The fact that your official rep is so damn clueless on the history of the area shows an INCREDIBLE amount of incompetence in my opinion.
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I think you misunderstood, or he didnt explain it properly. We are trying to CREATE a Cape Republic.
 
Cape-Independence said:
I would definately support this, I think if the Cape at least became an autonomous region within SA, free to pass our own laws, have our own political structure and parties, that most of our concerns expressed here would diminish.

However, there have been promises, yet no ones attempts at trying to achieve this makes me think we should just opt for secession. Or to rephrase, I would rather support the CP's attempts at Independence vs. the DA's policy of keeping the status quo on a provincial level.
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Dude, see? Now you're talking sense. First and foremost try for independence, if that fails then go for the autonomous option, nothing lost there, and no one will suffer.

I can't help thinking that if the Cape Party was launched under a different name with a similar manifesto/intention but was nationwide (Yes I know they want to stand nationwide) there would not be as much resistance to the idea as now.

Toxic: There was such a thing as the Cape Colony which was autonomous and part of the commonwealth as a separate entity...Regardless of it's borders as they were constantly changing

Also see a pic I posted a while back :D Circa 1890

As far as I understand it, historic borders are not a requirement for secession. So it stands to reason that they can claim any defined area, up til and including today...without the bits they don't want. (I'm a layman here)
 
I know there was such a thing as a Cape Colony...I have never once denied that.

Historic borders are not a requirement for secession, but they would seriously help since your movement WILL get violent uprisings should it try force its will on the remaing 50%-1 people people, and it will get vehement opposition from the rest of the country.

As for the whole autonomous thing, the Cape is free to pass its own laws ANYWAY, within the confines of the Constitution of South Africa, and within the bounds of the national legislature, becoming any more autonomous than that is just duplicating effort for no gain. Should we become a union based on the same system as the USA, the same applies, there are federal laws that must be adhered to...

As for resistance to the idea, there basic "intention" will always get resistance, no matter how they try and present it... They're trying to break up South Africa, and "steal" one of the top 3 provincial economies, because they don't like the fact that the majority of this country have voted in the ANC. Welcome to the real world, you don't always get your own way...they need to put on a pair of big girls panties and actually do something positive for the country, and not for themselves.
 
ToxicBunny said:
I know there was such a thing as a Cape Colony...I have never once denied that.

Historic borders are not a requirement for secession, but they would seriously help since your movement WILL get violent uprisings should it try force its will on the remaing 50%-1 people people, and it will get vehement opposition from the rest of the country.

As for the whole autonomous thing, the Cape is free to pass its own laws ANYWAY, within the confines of the Constitution of South Africa, and within the bounds of the national legislature, becoming any more autonomous than that is just duplicating effort for no gain. Should we become a union based on the same system as the USA, the same applies, there are federal laws that must be adhered to...

As for resistance to the idea, there basic "intention" will always get resistance, no matter how they try and present it... They're trying to break up South Africa, and "steal" one of the top 3 provincial economies, because they don't like the fact that the majority of this country have voted in the ANC. Welcome to the real world, you don't always get your own way...they need to put on a pair of big girls panties and actually do something positive for the country, and not for themselves.
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You making a hell of alot of assumptions.

Firstly, you do a 180 and change your tune by saying "borders are not a requirement for secession."

Then you say that our "movement WILL get violent uprisings should it try force its will on the remaing 50%-1 people people, and it will get vehement opposition from the rest of the country." By this you assume people are "forcing their will on others," and this would be very distorted, as we live in a democracy. By that logic, we could say that the rest of SA is forcing their will onto the Cape by voting ANC..?

"There WILL be violent uprisings?" I think its premature to think that this will go down in violence. We live in an international community.
 
They are a requirement for secession... historic borders AREN'T.. but they will make the secession more acceptable to some people, or at least make it make some sense, since currently the Cape Party is seemingly pushing for independence based solely on the fact that they're not happy that the ANC is running South Africa.

No, you can't assume the the rest of the country is forcing their will on the Cape by voting the ANC... you had JUST as much say as everyone else, and the majority voted for the ANC. In a pure democratic setup, the entire country would vote on the secession of the Cape since it effects the entire country, but since you want just the section of the Cape to vote (I'm guessing) you are thereby forcing your will on the rest of the country.

Its not premature, there will be violent uprisings should this go beyond some incredibly small section of fanatics heads....
 
ToxicBunny said:
They are a requirement for secession... historic borders AREN'T.. but they will make the secession more acceptable to some people, or at least make it make some sense, since currently the Cape Party is seemingly pushing for independence based solely on the fact that they're not happy that the ANC is running South Africa.

No, you can't assume the the rest of the country is forcing their will on the Cape by voting the ANC... you had JUST as much say as everyone else, and the majority voted for the ANC. In a pure democratic setup, the entire country would vote on the secession of the Cape since it effects the entire country, but since you want just the section of the Cape to vote (I'm guessing) you are thereby forcing your will on the rest of the country.

Its not premature, there will be violent uprisings should this go beyond some incredibly small section of fanatics heads....
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Ah, I see what you mean... However you are wrong about one thing for sure...

You say "since currently the Cape Party is seemingly pushing for independence based solely on the fact that they're not happy that the ANC is running South Africa."

I have to stop you there. The Cape party is NOT just another opposition Party to the ANC. Even if the DA had to win Nationally, (fat chance,) the Cape Party would still be trying to get Independence for the Cape. The Cape Party believes the Cape should not have entered the Union in the first place and that it was forced to by a colonial power trying to incorporate the Boer Republics, and unfairly so. now, nearly a hundred years later, we want out.

Let me ask you this: You, personally, how long do you believe the ANC will continue to run this country into the ground? 10 years? 100 years? Also, do you believe the DA could ever win National?
 
Cape-Independence said:
Then you say that our "movement WILL get violent uprisings should it try force its will on the remaing 50%-1 people people, and it will get vehement opposition from the rest of the country." By this you assume people are "forcing their will on others," and this would be very distorted, as we live in a democracy. By that logic, we could say that the rest of SA is forcing their will onto the Cape by voting ANC..?

"There WILL be violent uprisings?" I think its premature to think that this will go down in violence. We live in an international community.
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Don't you know anything about South Africa? I can guarantee you there will be violent protests. It's a South African trait to resort to violence and destruction when people are unhappy with anything. It happens all the time.
When cross-border municipalities were abolished in 2006, Khutsong was shifted from Gauteng to (the poorer) North West province. Residents staged massive violent protests, petrol bombed homes of the ANC candidates and destroyed municipal property. People were also killed.

Even if it's not the Cape Party's intention, the majority of South Africans will consider the move as a form of racial separatism and economic exclusion, and will obviously stage violent protests.
There will also be protests against proposed border locations, as many adjacent towns, townships and villages not included in the "Independent Cape" will feel left out and cheated.

To assume that the independent transition will be peaceful is a bit presumptuous.
 
genetic said:
Don't you know anything about South Africa? I can guarantee you there will be violent protests. It's a South African trait to resort to violence and destruction when people are unhappy with anything. It happens all the time.
When cross-border municipalities were abolished in 2006, Khutsong was shifted from Gauteng to (the poorer) North West province. Residents staged massive violent protests, petrol bombed homes of the ANC candidates and destroyed municipal property. People were also killed.

Even if it's not the Cape Party's intention, the majority of South Africans will consider the move as a form of racial separatism and economic exclusion, and will obviously stage violent protests.
There will also be protests against proposed border locations, as many adjacent towns, townships and villages not included in the "Independent Cape" will feel left out and cheated.

To assume that the independent transition will be peaceful is a bit presumptuous.
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Ok, I see where your going with this, but Khutsong is not in the Cape, and I believe that over some time, people will learn that our movement is not racially motivated, as its not. Given SA's history, its understandable that ppl might think so, but sooner or later they will see that the CP is not about race.
 
larrychang said:
Maybe you can ask them to add you to their officials list (maybe even their payroll). You have more plausible/mature explanations than this kid CI who is unable to see past his nose (must be the snot blocking his view).
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Try speeeky eeengrish?
 
Toxic: Also you said "Its not premature, there will be violent uprisings should this go beyond some incredibly small section of fanatics heads...."

Your still thinking that this movement is held by a tiny group of right-winged people, when nothing is further from the truth. The CP has grown considerably over the past few months, and while we are still new to the SA political scene, have Reps. in almost every major Cape City and town. We're honestly not "small," and we're not racially motived or terrorists. Therefore, your use of "fanatical" is kinda unfair. If the Zulu people wanted greater autonomy, which they do, (or did,) would you say they are being fanatical? I would support Autonomy if it were offered, but its not.
 
It is a movement held by a tiny group of people. I have never tagged you as right wing, but it is still a tiny group of people.

Until you can provide physical official numbers of votes in your favour BEYOND the 2550 that you got in the provincial elections this year, you will remain a tiny group of people.

Do the Zulu's want autonomy? no.. but thats a different example since its a contiguous cultural grouping, which you are not...
 
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