Cape Party Q&A

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kilps said:
Yes - and while it might say that the CAPE Party is non-racial, what appears to be an independent source has described CAPE Party promotional material which (in my opinion) incites racial hatred. If that is incorrect that all is well and I have no problem with the party promoting it's vision for the Cape - but until then the article I quoted raises a serious concern.

Perhaps you could address it directly?
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I can tell you what i know, but please, I dont assume to speak for the Party, im just a supporter of the whole movement in general. ;)
 
Ok fair enough that you don't know anything about it :) - it just does concern me that there are reports of this... So if you do manage to find anything more out do let us know...

As for the idea of independence itself - I'm not convinced, but it's an interesting one - so I won't just write you guys off (as others seem to do) without even thinking about it ;)
 
kilps said:
Ok fair enough that you don't know anything about it :) - it just does concern me that there are reports of this... So if you do manage to find anything more out do let us know...

As for the idea of independence itself - I'm not convinced, but it's an interesting one - so I won't just write you guys off (as others seem to do) without even thinking about it ;)
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Ha, :D Thats all anyone can ask mate.
 
Maybe the Cape Party has some good beliefs and wants a better future for all, but these two buffoons are clearly doing their party some serious damage.[/QUOTE]

Firstly, You dont have to agree with my comments cause i dont agree with yours. Secondly: Trust me our comments are not in any way going to do any 'serious damage' to the Party. You talk about 'valid reasons' the whole time, you want explanations for something you wont agree with anyway, in the same way that I wont see any of your 'reasons' as valid for not seceding.
 
Its not about agreeing or disagreeing with your comments. Your comments are either downright wrong, or you try attack the person who points out the naivety of your comments.

Well you see, you may want to secede, but you have to convince 50%+1 of roughly 20m people that secession is in THEIR best interests.... The opponents to the idea on the other hand just have to point out how patently stupid the idea is to 50% of the people... (and probably even less than that given the overwhelming majority that the ANC holds in the ex Cape Colony land area)
 
ToxicBunny said:
Its not about agreeing or disagreeing with your comments. Your comments are either downright wrong, or you try attack the person who points out the naivety of your comments.

Well you see, you may want to secede, but you have to convince 50%+1 of roughly 20m people that secession is in THEIR best interests.... The opponents to the idea on the other hand just have to point out how patently stupid the idea is to 50% of the people... (and probably even less than that given the overwhelming majority that the ANC holds in the ex Cape Colony land area)
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Is this Idiot still going on about borders??? Again?? :sick:
 
Well what else is pretty much the MOST important thing.... your "official" rep attempted to define the borders for some mythical "Republic of the Cape of Good Hope" as at 1910... the only sovereign nation in that area was the Cape Colony and at 1910 its borders were the ex Cape Province.

There was a Cape of Good Hope PROVINCE.. in the then Union of South Africa, but the borders for that were, well blow me down, the same as the borders of the Cape Province.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Well what else is pretty much the MOST important thing.... your "official" rep attempted to define the borders for some mythical "Republic of the Cape of Good Hope" as at 1910... the only sovereign nation in that area was the Cape Colony and at 1910 its borders were the ex Cape Province.

There was a Cape of Good Hope PROVINCE.. in the then Union of South Africa, but the borders for that were, well blow me down, the same as the borders of the Cape Province.
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Cape-Independence:D Dude, seriously you need to chill a smidge, there's no point in calling people idiots etc, while I'm with you on the "fight" for independence, this is a very emotive subject and people are going to be riled up. You need them to express their opinions, how else would anyone who supports Cape independence know how, why others are are opposed to this movement? Just think you feel very strongly about independence, others will feel just as strongly against it. It's expected, and instead of having a go at them here on a forum (which is mainly a tech forum) you need to be seen to be doing something to convince others, or even make them see your point, or why you think in your opinion independence is for the benefit for all. Simple you put your argument for independence, they put their argument against it, somewhere, somehow there will be common ground.

As you know I'm for independence, and am in no way taking away from you your passion for the movement. You just have to understand that people will be against it no matter what. Toxic, has put his arguments against, and so have a whole bunch of other people. Some of the questions put forward to the Cape Party are genuine concerns, and I sit here with interest to see how they answer these questions. If their answers do not satisfy either the doubters or the supporters, the onus (sp) is on us (Supporters etc) to show why secession is the only way to go, and it is our job (as supporters) to make sure that our goals and intentions are very clear.

You have to remember that not only are we seeking independence, we are also seeking the break up of the South African republic... It's a big deal, because South Africa as we know it has been existence for a long while. Of course it's an emotive subject.

This thread was started as a Q&A and we should leave it as such. By all means if some one disputes an answer then go ahead and try and explain why you think they are wrong, however you need to keep emotion out of the answer. It's difficult I know :D

However the doubters have every right to ask questions of the movement. By the same token if the people who are against this movement get emotive that's their perogative. In return if we give clear, concise answers then we should satisfy their apprehensions to a degree.


I'm a supporter of the Cape Party and proud of that fact and I for one will not be drawn into emotive arguments. Take note of the answers I've given ( I know I'm not perfect) I've taken their concerns on board, and am happy for them to ask questions (They have asked some very pertinent questions, ones I've not even thought of). When some one makes a comment insinuating that the argument for secession is a race one, I'll correct them.

You have accepted some criticism, and I ask not only you but all supporters of independence to accept this criticism, take it on board and make our fight for independence stronger.

Those of you against independence I ask a few things. Keep it on topic (I know I don't have the right really to ask this), if you have questions ask them by all means, but please don't bring race or too much emotion into this thread. This thread was started by a representative of the Cape Party (I hope :D) and they should be able to answer all questions that have been asked.

Toxic mate: I know you're big on the territory thing, and it's a touchy subject (and without proper research etc we can't be 100% sure) but how about trying to find other questions (I'm not asking you to to ignore the territory thing) to ask, surely if you're against secession there must be more than just the borders thing? I know others have asked questions and I'm sure the questions will be answered in due course.

Anyway enough "commands" from me :D let's just try and keep this thread going with intelligent, civil debate.
 
Retro : At this point I'm big on the territory thing because of the at least 3 times I've had an "answer" they've been wrong from the fanatics, or an answer from the official representative who doesn't even have a clue about the history of the area that they are asking for independence for.

These things need to be pointed out on a regular basis so that other people can see this "organisation" for the bunch of, how do I put this politely, morons that they are.

I've brought up many other points, and they've been less than poorly dealt with by both the fanatics and the official representative, and DJ's questions in the same vein.... This "organisation" is pushing for something that they actually have NO idea on how to realistically achieve, and have no concrete plans for the future SHOULD they achieve it.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Retro : At this point I'm big on the territory thing because of the at least 3 times I've had an "answer" they've been wrong from the fanatics, or an answer from the official representative who doesn't even have a clue about the history of the area that they are asking for independence for.

These things need to be pointed out on a regular basis so that other people can see this "organisation" for the bunch of, how do I put this politely, morons that they are.

I've brought up many other points, and they've been less than poorly dealt with by both the fanatics and the official representative, and DJ's questions in the same vein.... This "organisation" is pushing for something that they actually have NO idea on how to realistically achieve, and have no concrete plans for the future SHOULD they achieve it.
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Dude I get why you're big on the territory topic I do, and I agree that some questions have not been answered, give it time, like I've said before, new party, new politics, maybe there are things the party has not thought of, that takes nothing away from their intentions, just give them time, surely the answers don't need to be answered straight away, it's not like independence is just around the corner :D.

If independence is given to the "old Cape Colony/Province" which I believe will happen, then I'd assume a period of transition will take place where all the finer details will be dealt with. For now, I think the main point is for the Cape Party to gather support.

If independence is not given, then at least they/we can say we tried. But that won't be the end of it I'm sure, there's nothing stopping the Cape Party from campaigning for a better S.A. (Who knows, a change in name etc, can take place, it has happened before in S.A.) and maybe instead of the current ruling party and Cope/Da we will have a situation where it is the DA and Cape Party. I think it's worth a shot don't you? So yes, oppose secession it's your right, but don't destroy that hope, because one day that hope may be the only thing you can cling to.

Everyone has to start somewhere, and it normally starts with an idea. There's still a long while until the next elections. If the Cape Party and it's supporters are truly serious about their intentions (As I am) then the proof will be in 5 years time for the next election. Until then I will do everything in my power to support them. In a free and democratic country (either the U.K. or S.A.) I'm entitled to. It's my right, and of course it's your right to oppose it.
 
What of those South Africans with property down in the Cape? Do they forfeit it Mugabe-style? I'm sure those folk wouldn't want the inconvenience of their property suddenly being in a foreign country?
 
larrychang said:
What of those South Africans with property down in the Cape? Do they forfeit it Mugabe-style? I'm sure those folk wouldn't want the inconvenience of their property suddenly being in a foreign country?
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Why would their property be taken away Mugabe style? Many people own property overseas or in neighbouring states...

You mean like how some farms in SA have been attacked? Do you honestly believe that people who own property in the Cape would lose their property if the cape became Independent? Who would take it? "War vets?" :p
 
Dude I get why you're big on the territory topic I do, and I agree that some questions have not been answered, give it time, like I've said before, new party, new politics, maybe there are things the party has not thought of, that takes nothing away from their intentions, just give them time, surely the answers don't need to be answered straight away, it's not like independence is just around the corner
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See this I have a problem with.... They're looking for independence... if they haven't got the area that they're looking for sorted by now, then they are beyond incompetent.

The official rep has less than fsckall clue about the history of the area as well, points to even more incompetence in my opinion.

And if they are going to push for the Cape Colony bit, then it won't happen. The ANC controls that area by a LARGE percentage iirc
 
larrychang said:
What of those South Africans with property down in the Cape? Do they forfeit it Mugabe-style? I'm sure those folk wouldn't want the inconvenience of their property suddenly being in a foreign country?
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Not being an official from the Cape Party I can only assume they'd be allowed to keep it and pay the normal rates and taxes as per citizens and then maybe be a little more lax on visiting visas.... We shall wait and see the official answer

Don't worry dude your tent is safe :D
 
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ToxicBunny said:
See this I have a problem with.... They're looking for independence... if they haven't got the area that they're looking for sorted by now, then they are beyond incompetent.

The official rep has less than fsckall clue about the history of the area as well, points to even more incompetence in my opinion.

And if they are going to push for the Cape Colony bit, then it won't happen. The ANC controls that area by a LARGE percentage iirc
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Yes they do know, they in my opinion were not specific enough with their answer. As far as I understand it, it's the whole Western Cape, some of the Northern Cape (Not sure which bits) and 6 (IIRC) municipal areas in the Eastern Cape......

Maybe that's something to put on their website? It would certainly make it clearer :D
 
Cape-Independence said:
Why would their property be taken away Mugabe style? Many people own property overseas or in neighbouring states...

You mean like how some farms in SA have been attacked? Do you honestly believe that people who own property in the Cape would lose their property if the cape became Independent? Who would take it? "War vets?" :p
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Did you see the part where I say those properties would suddenly be in a foreign country? Your powers of comprehension are severely lacking my friend.

Anyway, moving along - then there's the small matter of the elephant that is parliament being situated in a different country. That would be a bit weird seeing as SA's MPs would find themselves stuck in a foreign country.
 
RetroBok said:
Not being an official from the Cape Party I can only assume they'd be allowed to keep it and pay the normal rates and taxes as per citizens and then maybe be a little more lax on visiting visas.... We shall wait and see the official answer

Don't worry dude your tent is safe :D
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Maybe you can ask them to add you to their officials list (maybe even their payroll). You have more plausible/mature explanations than this kid CI who is unable to see past his nose (must be the snot blocking his view).
 
larrychang said:
Did you see the part where I say those properties would suddenly be in a foreign country? Your powers of comprehension are severely lacking my friend.

Anyway, moving along - then there's the small matter of the elephant that is parliament being situated in a different country. That would be a bit weird seeing as SA's MPs would find themselves stuck in a foreign country.
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You said "Mugabe style," not me. Also, would it be such an inconvenience to show a passport at the border?
 
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