Cape Town: David Forbes murder case

[USZA]

not so much his past as the present.
at the time of the incident he had 4 knives with him in the car
at the time of the incident he was facing a murder charge

And the actual incident?
The fact that he walked away from the altercation.
The fact that the accused followed him to the car. Who would be the aggressor in such an instance?
Or is this irrelevant to the incident?

 

[Tweakd Out]

wow, this guy is a real stand up guy...

According to the charge sheet in Joseph’s matter, he was set to appear in Cape Town Regional Court on Wednesday, alongside two others. It said that while one of the accused was arrested for murder, Joseph had been facing a charge of housebreaking with intent to steal and theft, but these charges had not yet been put to them.

 

[raind33r]

not so much his past as the present.
at the time of the incident he had 4 knives with him in the car
at the time of the incident he was facing a murder charge

But , but .....
"He was a sweet little boy, never rude,” she said. “He would always greet people in the street, he was very friendly. He had lots of friends.”

Hmmm ya nê.

The 3 you's

The you that your family know
The you that your friends know
The 1 YOU know :twisted:

 

[Datura]

well, sometimes kids are so devious that their parents really have no ideas as to what they are really up to

Sometimes parents are so concerned about themselves and what special people they are because of their beliefs and "god given" strengths that their children don't need to be devious to be invisible to them. Listened to the guy talk for a minute and had to switch the radio off. He spoke about himself for the entire minute saying what a god fearing special/different person he is.

 

[brixton tower]

I'm still chuckling, thinking about the father's interview with CapeTalk on Monday where he came across as some Muslim scholar, only for his son to run a small-scale criminal enterprise. If indeed Toufeeq had stabbed Forbes then it's a case of culpable homicide, at best, and knowing the lazy cops in Cape Town the NPA would not want to push their luck and try for a murder conviction, that will just float like a turd.

And since Mihalik is one of the defence lawyers (probably one of the best in Cape Town), they will dig up a ton of dirt on Joseph who in all likelihood ran with gangsters (how else does one explain his shiny black Golf 5 GTI?) which probably gave him the guts to confront Forbes at the Engen parking lot. All in all, this one will be interesting case if it ever makes it to the Cape Town High Court (which I doubt for reasons mentioned above).

 

[Demon7]

I'm still chuckling, thinking about the father's interview with CapeTalk on Monday where he came across as some Muslim scholar, only for his son to run a small-scale criminal enterprise. If indeed Toufeeq had stabbed Forbes then it's a case of culpable homicide, at best, and knowing the lazy cops in Cape Town the NPA would not want to push their luck and try for a murder conviction, that will just float like a turd.

And since Mihalik is one of the defence lawyers (probably one of the best in Cape Town), they will dig up a ton of dirt on Joseph who in all likelihood ran with gangsters (how else does one explain his shiny black Golf 5 GTI?) which probably gave him the guts to confront Forbes at the Engen parking lot. All in all, this one will be interesting case if it ever makes it to the Cape Town High Court (which I doubt for reasons mentioned above).

See , this is what you don't get....
Like I previously stated... I am not defending the victim, nor am I in any way trying to state that the accused is a bad guy...
I am merely saying that regardless of the type of people either were, and regardless of who deserved what,
from the facts so far presented, it looks and sounds like premeditated murder.

The accused went to the victim with the intention of accosting him and the resulting violence was inevitable.
Hence, he knew exactly why he approached him, and carried out the deed.

 

[yebocan]

true
as you say, "not my pig, not my farm"
lots of colorful defence going on around the dead guy

Not defending anyone...by the looks of it, they are just the most charming fellas to get involved with....just curious that people find it acceptable , to take a life, when there are other avenues of resolve available..are we becoming so detached/warped?

 

[USZA]

See , this is what you don't get....
Like I previously stated... I am not defending the victim, nor am I in any way trying to state that the accused is a bad guy...
I am merely saying that regardless of the type of people either were, and regardless of who deserved what,
from the facts so far presented, it looks and sounds like premeditated murder.

The accused went to the victim with the intention of accosting him and the resulting violence was inevitable.
Hence, he knew exactly why he approached him, and carried out the deed.

But . . . but . . . the accused was an upstanding citizen. How dare the victim defend himself with a knife when the accused came at him with a gun? And that's why most here will go for the culpable homicide charge. Because the victim was of questionable reputation and had four knives in his car, of which one had blood on, and the accused was an upstanding citizen with just a minor previous conviction and who never did something like this before.

 

[raind33r]

See , this is what you don't get....
Like I previously stated... I am not defending the victim, nor am I in any way trying to state that the accused is a bad guy...
I am merely saying that regardless of the type of people either were, and regardless of who deserved what,
from the facts so far presented, it looks and sounds like premeditated murder.

The accused went to the victim with the intention of accosting him and the resulting violence was inevitable.
Hence, he knew exactly why he approached him, and carried out the deed.

Nope and nope. No premeditated murder. Resulting violence was not inevitable.
If you pull a knife on me - then something inevitable will happen, that's for sure.

Accused was obviously p1ssed off about something. Confronted the guy. Guy pulls knife on him - accused shoots him.
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight

 

[raind33r]

Not defending anyone...by the looks of it, they are just the most charming fellas to get involved with....just curious that people find it acceptable , to take a life, when there are other avenues of resolve available..are we becoming so detached/warped?

Riiight - oke stabs you - intends to do it again....
Hmmmm, let's see - "please would you stop doing that, let's hug and say our goodbyes" No hard feelings my friend

 

[brixton tower]

See , this is what you don't get....
Like I previously stated... I am not defending the victim, nor am I in any way trying to state that the accused is a bad guy...
I am merely saying that regardless of the type of people either were, and regardless of who deserved what,
from the facts so far presented, it looks and sounds like premeditated murder.

The accused went to the victim with the intention of accosting him and the resulting violence was inevitable.
Hence, he knew exactly why he approached him, and carried out the deed.

Premeditated murder? You are reaching broer!! Prosecutors will have to prove to a competent judge/magistrate that what Forbes did was premeditated. I still scheme that Toufiq Joseph (as his Facebook profile tells me) was a bit hardegat when confronted by Forbes, possibly a few choice words were exchanged...now when exactly Forbes was injured still has to be determined. His case could rest on that.

 

[Demon7]

Nope and nope. No premeditated murder. Resulting violence was not inevitable.
If you pull a knife on me - then something inevitable will happen, that's for sure.

Accused was obviously p1ssed off about something. Confronted the guy. Guy pulls knife on him - accused shoots him.
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight

What did he think was going to happen then, when he approached him...
Nice friendly banter...

Wake up please.

 

[Demon7]

Riiight - oke stabs you - intends to do it again....
Hmmmm, let's see - "please would you stop doing that, let's hug and say our goodbyes" No hard feelings my friend

If cops reacted the way he did, there would be way less criminals in the world, certainly... but it would also be illegal.
With his size, and the fact that he was armed, he could very easily have subdued the victim...
Hence the amount of force used was way excessive.

 

[USZA]

Nope and nope. No premeditated murder. Resulting violence was not inevitable.
If you pull a knife on me - then something inevitable will happen, that's for sure.

Accused was obviously p1ssed off about something. Confronted the guy. Guy pulls knife on him - accused shoots him.
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight

Going after someone who had just walked away from an altercation seems pretty premeditated to me.

And at this stage, we don't even know who pulled what first. Could be that the accused pulled a gun and the victim tried to defend himself by stabbing the accused, albeit, very unsuccessfully? The resultant force then used by the accused, was way above the threat level of the weapon of the victim. But this scenario would obviously not suit the contention here.

 

[yebocan]

Riiight - oke stabs you - intends to do it again....
Hmmmm, let's see - "please would you stop doing that, let's hug and say our goodbyes" No hard feelings my friend

Firstly...I do not get myself involved with the likes of these guy....so situation would be totally foreign for me...and yeah, I am the love the world, hug a stranger type of guy...

 

[Suspect99]

Nope and nope. No premeditated murder. Resulting violence was not inevitable.
If you pull a knife on me - then something inevitable will happen, that's for sure.

Accused was obviously p1ssed off about something. Confronted the guy. Guy pulls knife on him - accused shoots him.
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight

We know nothing at this point. How do we know that the accused didn't pull out a gun, point it at him, causing the victim to stab him, then get shot?

We don't.

 

[Demon7]

Premeditated murder? You are reaching broer!! Prosecutors will have to prove to a competent judge/magistrate that what Forbes did was premeditated. I still scheme that Toufiq Joseph (as his Facebook profile tells me) was a bit hardegat when confronted by Forbes, possibly a few choice words were exchanged...now when exactly Forbes was injured still has to be determined. His case could rest on that.

He definitely will have to prove it, but the mere fact that this was not an isolated incident, and that there was an ongoing fued, tells any rational person that the accused was planning to confront the victim for some time...
Why did he have to confront the victim if not to either threaten by words or by force... and perhaps he already had and received that cut at on that occasion... he then possibly vowed revenge and warned the victim he would be back...
This is maybe why the victim was acting as if he was going to die...

But the last part is still fiction until the truth comes out... (my tak eon it, but like I said... fiction)

 

[brixton tower]

What did he think was going to happen then, when he approached him...
Nice friendly banter...

Wake up please.

If you are stealing from me I will approach you. In the sort of business that Forbes is in, I'm sure he did not last this long running to the police whenever someone crossed him. That's why he tried to sort it out himself when he got wind that someone was selling fake tickets to one of his festivals.

 

[USZA]

We know nothing at this point. How do we know that the accused didn't pull out a gun, point it at him, causing the victim to stab him, then get shot?

We don't.

Your argument is invalid because it does not suit the contention of this forum.

Funny that you and I should come up with the same scenario, which could actually be the more likely scenario since none of the eyewitnesses saw the victim stab the accused during their altercation on the forecourt.

 

[USZA]

If you are stealing from me I will approach you. In the sort of business that Forbes is in, I'm sure he did not last this long running to the police whenever someone crossed him. That's why he tried to sort it out himself when he got wind that someone was selling fake tickets to one of his festivals.

What kind of business is he exactly in? Because killing seems to come so natural to him.

So his way of sorting out this kind of thing is to kill people? Charming fellow.

It's a sad day indeed when someone's life is worth less than a few tickets to a music festival.