Cops caught on camera 'executing' criminal (WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT)

StrontiumDog said:
Space_Chief, you missed this bit:
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Strontium, we already armed the police. So we have people with the power of life and death, training and backup walking around. Fallible people. Imperfect people. People in a high stress situations. People who witness violence daily. People whose families suffer violence.

So what does that tell you? Do you think things will never go wrong? Guess what happened here. Things went wrong.

The point the law lecturer is making is pretty basic and not really relevant here. We all know cops are not executioners from primary school. We all know about the principle of presumption of innocence.

The whole go around/come around thing is silly. People already experience violent crime. Why would they fear cops if they already fear criminals. That sort of point works in low crime settings.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
And yet no one is defending letting violent criminals roam free.

Oh wait, some are... Cops who murder people are violent criminals themselves, so defending the practice and arguing that they shouldn't be prosecuted for it is advocating letting violent criminals roam free.
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Yes, the idiots who support 'murder by cops' cannot see that lack of logic through their crime supporting eyes. They think that crime is the answer to crime in an ever downward cpiralling existence.
If so, who will then shoot and execute the cops who are now the criminals, and who will shoot those that shoot the cops?

Get rid of courts, just start meting out punishment. Start on MyBB and move on to Oscar Pistorius..that will gain great publicity for the new movement.
 
OzzieCapie said:
Yes, the idiots who support 'murder by cops' cannot see that lack of logic through their crime supporting eyes. They think that crime is the answer to crime in an ever downward cpiralling existence.
If so, who will then shoot and execute the cops who are now the criminals, and who will shoot those that shoot the cops?

Get rid of courts, just start meting out punishment. Start on MyBB and move on to Oscar Pistorius..that will gain great publicity for the new movement.
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Unfortunately violence breeds violence as you yourself have noted with insight.
 
...the sad thing about where SA is headed now is not the crime itself, but the attitude towards it. The feeling amongst so many in society that summary execution is not only ok but should be encouraged.
It is far eaier to reduce crime than to change such societal feelings.

You will lose respect (you already have ) in the rest of the world
 
Space_Chief said:
It's not relevant. Once you arm cops you place the power of life and death in the hands of guys with a few years of post matric education and a ton of stress. Do you get this or do you want me to explain in simpler language to you?
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It's very relevant, however your obviously too short sighted to see that.
 
Hot topic. Love it.

In South African society the need for immediate and decisive action towards criminals is on the increase. People are fed up of hiding behind high walls and electric fences.

How many times have you read an article and just below that seen comments like "hang him" he "should be shot" or "bring back the death penalty"? Policemen are human beings, they (as someone earlier mentioned) live with stress and in violent circumstances themselves. They see the violence on a daily basis, and in some cases it affects them directly (i.e. violence towards friends/family). These guys (cops) are friends at work and at home. When you and I go to a friends house it is usually someone you know from school or varsity or in some cases work.

These guys usually ONLY and exclusively get together with other cops (there is the exception to the rule, but in general this is what they do). So when their mate gets killed for his gun while he is off duty, or sitting at home watching TV, it affects these guys directly (only human, remember?). So cases like these will always happen. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on which side of the fence you are) this one was caught on tape.

Whether it is right or wrong it happened, now we have to deal with the fallout. I have always seen cops as peacekeepers, but that was because my dad was one and I know how they USED to operate back in the 80's and 90's. Things have changed, society has changed. I don't think they are peacekeepers anymore, but rather peace enforcers - if there is such a thing. Our society is a violent and sick one. These guys have to police it and try and make sense of the mayhem. In the heat of the moment a lot of things could (and does) happen. Just my opinion - use it, don't use it.

My personal opinion? Good for the cop. One less *****er to worry about.
 
One question to all the guys here.

What is your opinion of the cop in Brits that got shot when he approached a car? Did you see the video? What do you make of this? Do you think that the cop should have shot first and asked questions later, or should he have approached the car, as he did? This is exactly the point I was trying to make in my post above. Other cops will see this video also, and what do you think their reaction will be when they approach another suspects car?
 
Slaught3r said:
One question to all the guys here.

What is your opinion of the cop in Brits that got shot when he approached a car? Did you see the video? What do you make of this? Do you think that the cop should have shot first and asked questions later, or should he have approached the car, as he did? This is exactly the point I was trying to make in my post above. Other cops will see this video also, and what do you think their reaction will be when they approach another suspects car?
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You missed an entire thread on that discussion http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...r-fatally-shot-at-Mooinooi-Mall-outside-Brits
 
Slaught3r said:
Hot topic. Love it.

In South African society the need for immediate and decisive action towards criminals is on the increase. People are fed up of hiding behind high walls and electric fences.

How many times have you read an article and just below that seen comments like "hang him" he "should be shot" or "bring back the death penalty"? Policemen are human beings, they (as someone earlier mentioned) live with stress and in violent circumstances themselves. They see the violence on a daily basis, and in some cases it affects them directly (i.e. violence towards friends/family). These guys (cops) are friends at work and at home. When you and I go to a friends house it is usually someone you know from school or varsity or in some cases work.

These guys usually ONLY and exclusively get together with other cops (there is the exception to the rule, but in general this is what they do). So when their mate gets killed for his gun while he is off duty, or sitting at home watching TV, it affects these guys directly (only human, remember?). So cases like these will always happen. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on which side of the fence you are) this one was caught on tape.

Whether it is right or wrong it happened, now we have to deal with the fallout. I have always seen cops as peacekeepers, but that was because my dad was one and I know how they USED to operate back in the 80's and 90's. Things have changed, society has changed. I don't think they are peacekeepers anymore, but rather peace enforcers - if there is such a thing. Our society is a violent and sick one. These guys have to police it and try and make sense of the mayhem. In the heat of the moment a lot of things could (and does) happen. Just my opinion - use it, don't use it.

My personal opinion? Good for the cop. One less *****er to worry about.
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No, it was wrong.
Cops are not judges, they do not get to decide who should die. They can use deadly force to protect themselves and others, but in this case no more force was needed. All the emotional appealing in the world doesn't change the fact that they stood around and watched a colleague shoot a defenseless person in the head.
That's the problem. On the one hand our cops are under incredible stress and personal risk, but they cannot and must not have the power to kill when they feel like it, especially in the case when it was completely unnecessary.

Yes, a criminal was removed from society, but it should have been done thru the courts, not by execution.

Everyone saying 'good on them'...what happens when it isn't a clearly guilty person. It is not a cops job to judge guilt or innocence. The second you give them that power our freedoms are gone and it will make violence worse. Any violent criminal will have to kill any police officers they run into or they will be killed.
It will be the wild west in Africa.
 
Pox said:
No, it was wrong.
Cops are not judges, they do not get to decide who should die. They can use deadly force to protect themselves and others, but in this case no more force was needed. All the emotional appealing in the world doesn't change the fact that they stood around and watched a colleague shoot a defenseless person in the head.
That's the problem. On the one hand our cops are under incredible stress and personal risk, but they cannot and must not have the power to kill when they feel like it, especially in the case when it was completely unnecessary.

Yes, a criminal was removed from society, but it should have been done thru the courts, not by execution.

Everyone saying 'good on them'...what happens when it isn't a clearly guilty person. It is not a cops job to judge guilt or innocence. The second you give them that power our freedoms are gone and it will make violence worse. Any violent criminal will have to kill any police officers they run into or they will be killed.
It will be the wild west in Africa.
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So we should take away their weapons then?

BTW - It's already the wild west in Africa - or have you lived under a rock for the past 20 years? Police officers are targeted on a DAILY basis, this is exactly my point. At some point if you shove hard enough they will shove back. Which is exactly what happened in this case.

Robber shoots at police - if he kills someone so be it. Runs out of bullets or whatever the case was here - oops, throw gun away, lie down, get arrested, get out on bail, next week back to shooting cops where there are no cameras "protecting" the robber.

Seems fair.
 
Slaught3r said:
So we should take away their weapons then?

BTW - It's already the wild west in Africa - or have you lived under a rock for the past 20 years? Police officers are targeted on a DAILY basis, this is exactly my point. At some point if you shove hard enough they will shove back. Which is exactly what happened in this case.

Robber shoots at police - if he kills someone so be it. Runs out of bullets or whatever the case was here - oops, throw gun away, lie down, get arrested, get out on bail, next week back to shooting cops where there are no cameras "protecting" the robber.

Seems fair.
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You are attacking straw.

No one is saying police should be disarmed or not be allowed to protect themselves if their lives are threatened. We're saying they shouldn't just get carte blanche to off someone if their life is no longer in danger, and without any kind of judicial accountability for their actions.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
You are attacking straw.

No one is saying police should be disarmed or not be allowed to protect themselves if their lives are threatened. We're saying they shouldn't just get carte blanche to off someone if their life is no longer in danger, and without any kind of judicial accountability for their actions.
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Thanks for summing up what I was trying to say.
Courts don't work? Let the cops kill everyone. Problem?
 
Eish...

Obviously virtually NOBODY believes* or contends cops should go "carte blanche". That is obvious. Obviously people should not screw around and spread STDs. Obviously people should not overeat and get diabetes. Obviously people should drive reasonably and virtually never crash. Obviously people should not smoke. Obviously people should not lose their tempers.... etc.

But the reality is that, it happens.

And we know it will happen. We arm cops. We give them training. We release them in violent environments and many also have families living in violent environments. Cops are human. With character trait flaws and emotions and so on.

OBVIOUSLY cops are not meant to be executioners. We all know that. To repeat this is to repeat that 1+1=2.

But because of various factors, things like this will happen. And some will support it because of various factors. Now work on THAT. Don't repeat elementary school stuff.

Note also there is a difference between a "righteous anger" type response in conversation or forum post and actual support of cop vigilantism by actually offering assistance or not reporting. I think most people who would do the former stop at the rhetoric.

But the thing is to identify why such rhetoric exists instead of blabbering about the constitution, justice and trust and other obvious stuff.

*If significant numbers believed that there would be political agitation for that. We'd see articles in the media. Letters to editors. And action to try to affect this.
 
You see the thing is that unlike governments - hence my earlier point about adrenaline in arteries - real people are quite fallible and easily prone to succumbing to stress, fatigue, disenchantment, etc. A government set the rules - but the people in the field are something else. Maybe the high levels of violence in SA society are now delivering more fruits.
 
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