Crisis in Ukraine

LazyLion

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Russian Troops Mass Near Ukraine's Belgorod Border Region

http://www.npr.org/2014/03/28/295578450/russian-troops-mass-near-ukraines-belgorod-border-region

NATO officials are warning about a sizable troop buildup by Russia along its border with Ukraine. NATO's top commander says the large numbers demonstrate that Russia is acting like an adversary.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Here's some news we're tracking today. NATO and Ukrainian officials are warning about a sizable troop build-up by Russia along its border with Ukraine. Western estimates put the military presence on the Russian side at between 20 and 50 thousand troops. Sources told Reuters these include infantry and armored units along with some air support.

Now, why the Russian forces would have gathered is still not clear. Although some Western officials fear they're preparing to invade Ukraine's Russian-speaking east.

LINDA WERTHEIMER, HOST:

We've heard a lot from our correspondents inside Ukraine, and this morning we got NPR's Soraya Sarhaddi Nelson on the line from the other side of the border. She is inside Russia in the western Russian city of Belgorod near where troops were sighted in recent weeks. Good morning, Soraya.

SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON, BYLINE: Good morning, Linda.

WERTHEIMER: Now, you've been traveling around the area where the troops are massed across the border. Over the last 24 hours, have you seen them?

NELSON: Not a single one. And the only military vehicles that I've seen are historic tanks in front of a World War II museum. But it's really not a surprise because Russian officials are denying any build-up and are certainly not doing it publically. Plus, reporters are being refused permission to travel any closer than three miles to the border, which is likely where a lot of these military units are.

WERTHEIMER: Do you get the impression that local folks are aware of them, have seen them?

NELSON: Some have seen armored vehicles and other military equipment being transported by train and they've also noticed an absence of soldiers in recent weeks at like the local military post here. But most of the people say they've learned about the build-up from the Internet. In any event, few want to comment about it because they say it's an incredibly sensitive topic here.

And just how sensitive became clear when I stopped in a neighborhood about 10 miles from the border, where a train was seen carrying armored vehicles in the direction of Ukraine earlier this month.

(SOUNDBITE OF MEN SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

NELSON: Our local producer and I had barely started interviewing a resident when six stern-looking Russian policemen, some of them were wearing camouflage, pulled up at high speeds in an SUV and a van and then came over to us.

WERTHEIMER: What on earth happened?

NELSON: Well, they held us at that location for about three hours and they were going over our passports and Russian paperwork and IDs and asking us over and over again what we were doing there, why we were asking questions and what kind of questions we were asking. The first six officers who showed up worked for the transportation police and criminal investigation division and they were later joined by other police units, including plain clothed federal security agents.

In the end, they did let us go and we just continued to do our interviews for a few hours.

WERTHEIMER: Soraya, what about the Russians? How are they reacting to the troops' presence?

NELSON: Well, most of the ones that I've interviewed here say they're comforted that there are troops around because it offers protection they feel they need from quote-unquote unsavory elements in Ukraine. Nobody I spoke to favors an incursion into Ukraine, but they said that if Eastern Ukrainians vote to follow the path of Crimea and join the Russian federation, they would welcome them here.

I interviewed one man next to the railway overpass where Russian armored vehicles were taken by train in the direction of the border. I can't identify him because he fears police retribution.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: (Speaking foreign language)

NELSON: He says people were shocked when they saw the military vehicles and equipment passing by here. He describes them as belonging to elite Russian paratroopers. The Russian man adds there aren't normally military units in this area so the appearance of these vehicles and equipment raises the anxiety people are feeling over what many think or fear is a fascist takeover in neighboring Ukraine.

WERTHEIMER: That's NPR's Soraya Sarhaddi Nelson speaking to us from the Russian city of Belgorod. Soraya, thank you very much.

NELSON: You're welcome, Linda.
 

LazyLion

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PM VISITS CRIMEA IN FIRST TRIP BY RUSSIAN LEADER

Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev on Monday became the first Russian leader to visit Crimea since Moscow seized the Black Sea region from Ukraine, promising to shower economic benefits on the area to make it flourish.

Medvedev toured Crimea's main city Simferopol at the head of a major delegation of cabinet ministers and deputy prime ministers, and was set to later visit Russia's Black Sea fleet base in Sevastopol.

He vowed to raise the level of salaries for municipal employees and pensions to average Russian levels and to modernise the region's hospitals, which he said were outdated.

Medvedev also announced that Crimea would become a "special economic zone", designed to attract investors with lower tax rates.

"As a result of joining Russia, not one resident of Crimea, not one resident of Sevastopol should lose anything. They can only gain," Medvedev promised at a special cabinet meeting held in Crimea.

Local officials, including Crimean prime minister Sergei Aksyonov, were also present at the meeting that was aired live on Russian state television.

Medvedev said the officials had come to "assess the situation and the scale of tasks ahead of us, and of course just to talk to the residents of the peninsula and support them."

"That's what people want from us: creating conditions for calm dignified life, confidence in tomorrow and a feeling that they are part of a strong country. We must justify those expectations," Medvedev said, speaking in front of a Russian flag.

"This is our collective responsibility, both collective and personal," he told officials including powerful First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov and deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin, who oversees the defence sector and is on EU and US sanctions blacklists over Crimea.

Medvedev earlier visited a children's hospital in Simferopol and promised the doctors it would be modernised with new ambulances.

"There will be new equipment," Medvedev said, quoted by the RIA Novosti news agency.

"I brought all the Russian government here, we will discuss all the problems including the health service and salaries. I'm very glad to see you. Load me up with ideas," he said.

He said the hospital's standards "significantly differed from the average Russian level."

He also visited a secondary school, where one pupil said that he wanted to join the Russian army training programme and others asked for his autograph, the Interfax news agency reported.

The Crimean authorities deployed a heavy police presence in the centre of Simferopol where Medvedev held the meeting with officials.

It was the highest-level visit yet by a Russian government official to Crimea after its takeover by Moscow.

Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu, a close ally of President Vladimir Putin, visited Crimea last week to inspect troops and visit military facilities.


Source : Sapa-AFP /aw
Date : 31 Mar 2014 12:31
 

LazyLion

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RUSSIAN PREMIER IN CRIMEA TO OFFER FEDERAL AID

Russia's prime minister is visiting Crimea to consider priorities for its economic development following the Russian takeover.

Dmitry Medvedev is leading a delegation of Cabinet ministers and is chairing a meeting Monday to discuss priorities for federal assistance to the region, which Russia annexed from Ukraine earlier this month.

The annexation followed a hastily called referendum held just two weeks after Russian forces had overtaken the Black Sea region, in which an overwhelming majority of voters backed joining Russia.

Ukraine and the West have rejected the vote.

Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, part of Medvedev's retinue, tweeted a photo of himself upon arrival in Crimea, with the words "Crimea is ours, and that's that."


Source : Sapa-AP /aw
Date : 31 Mar 2014 11:51
 

Taranis

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Hang on, didn't the USA just send a bunch of fighter aircraft to Poland, Lithuania etc?? I smell hypocracy.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/9/us-deploys-dozen-fighter-jets-poland/

A U.S. guided-missile destroyer (one of the largest they have) has also beeen deployed to the Black Sea. This is Russia's back yard.

So who is building up forces again??

Remember also that the Russians are allowed to have a contigent of some 25,000 troops in the Crimea regardless of who runs the place. This extends to equipment too, 132 armored vehicles. At present they don't even have as many as they are allowed.
 

Unhappy438

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12 planes at the request of Poland a Nato member = building up forces :rolleyes: , whos being hysterical now?

Remember also that the Russians are allowed to have a contigent of some 25,000 troops in the Crimea regardless of who runs the place. This extends to equipment too, 132 armored vehicles. At present they don't even have as many as they are allowed.

No, they are allowed them inside their bases in Crimea, not parading around the streets.
 
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Taranis

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12 planes at the request of Poland a Nato member = building up forces :rolleyes: , whos being hysterical now?



No, they are allowed them inside their bases in Crimea, not parading around the streets.
In terms of aircraft of this type, that's a massive boost. many countries don't even have that many as total.
 

Unhappy438

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In terms of aircraft of this type, that's a massive boost. many countries don't even have that many as total.

Lol 12 fighters isnt a massive boost, its not a move that will threaten Russia, its a move that reassures Poland.
 

OrbitalDawn

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Taranis, your thoughts on Putin's comments on how Crimea was a successful operation for the army?
 

Taranis

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Lol 12 fighters isnt a massive boost, its not a move that will threaten Russia, its a move that reassures Poland.
Why does Poland have to be reassured and about what? It looks more like scaremongering to me. Woooooooh! Russia might invade you 'again'. Makes the headlines ...
 

Unhappy438

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Why does Poland have to be reassured and about what? It looks more like scaremongering to me. Woooooooh! Russia might invade you 'again'. Makes the headlines ...

They are a Nato memeber, there is conflict in their region. You obviously think very lowly of Russia if you believe 12 fighters can threaten a country with fighters that probably number in the thousand.
 

LazyLion

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Hang on, didn't the USA just send a bunch of fighter aircraft to Poland, Lithuania etc?? I smell hypocracy.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/9/us-deploys-dozen-fighter-jets-poland/

A U.S. guided-missile destroyer (one of the largest they have) has also beeen deployed to the Black Sea. This is Russia's back yard.

So who is building up forces again??

Remember also that the Russians are allowed to have a contigent of some 25,000 troops in the Crimea regardless of who runs the place. This extends to equipment too, 132 armored vehicles. At present they don't even have as many as they are allowed.

Um yeah... I think that might be because Russia just invaded and took over another country's sovereign territory.... :wtf:
 

zippy

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Lol 12 fighters isnt a massive boost, its not a move that will threaten Russia, its a move that reassures Poland.

Maybe 1 F16 = 255 Migs. Superior NATO technology acts like a force multiplier. Has a Mig ever performed well against a western aircraft since American's learnt their lessons in Vietnam ?

But its more about the message than anything else.
 

Fulcrum29

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Maybe 1 F16 = 255 Migs. Superior NATO technology acts like a force multiplier. Has a Mig ever performed well against a western aircraft since American's learnt their lessons in Vietnam ?

But its more about the message than anything else.

Sukhois are more in line today with their American counterparts, the upgraded Mig-29's is still around.
 

zippy

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Sukhois are more in line today with their American counterparts, the upgraded Mig-29's is still around.

Agreed, but not as combat proven as the American aircraft. And its not just the aircraft. its the support. The USAF/RAF and French Airforce are able to turn around their fighters extremely efficiently. They have experience in sustaining weeks of high intensity combat. Their systems are battle proven and there equipment is proven to be reliable. They have flown against Russian made air-defences. The Russians have never been in combat against NATO air defences.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29
Iraq[edit]

Iraq received a number of MiG-29 fighters, and used MiG-29s to engage Iranian equivalent opponents during the later stages of the Iran-Iraq War.[citation needed]

MiG-29s also saw combat in the 1991 Persian Gulf War with the Iraqi Air Force. Five MiG-29s were shot down by USAF F-15s.[82] Some Russian sources reported that at least one Panavia Tornado, ZA467, was shot down in northwestern Iraq by a MiG-29.[83][84] UK sources claim this Tornado to have crashed on 22 January on a mission to Ar Rutbah.[85] Other Iraqi air-to-air kills are reported in Russian sources, where the US claims other cases of combat damage, such as a B-52 which the US claims was hit by friendly fire, when an AGM-88 High-speed, Anti-Radiation Missile (HARM) homed on the fire-control radar of the B-52's tail gun; bomber was subsequently renamed "In HARM's Way".[86]

Iraq's original fleet of 37 MiG-29s was reduced to 12 after the Gulf War. One MiG-29 was damaged, and four were evacuated to Iran.[87] The remaining 12 aircraft were withdrawn from use in 1995 because the engines needed to be overhauled but Iraq could not send them off for that work.[88]

After the American-led 2003 invasion of Iraq and disbandment of the Ba'athist Iraqi Army in May of the same year,[89] the remaining Russian-made and Chinese-made fighters of Iraqi forces had been decommissioned, and to be replaced by recently ordered American-made F-16.[90]

Syria[edit]

Syrian Arab Air Force (SyAAF) MiG-29s have encountered several times with Israeli fighter and reconnaissance aircraft. Two Israeli F-15Cs are reported to have shot down two MiG-29As on 2 June 1989 under unclear circumstances.[91][92]

Further reports claim that on 14 September 2001 two Syrian Air Force MiG-29s were shot down by two IDF/AF F-15C while the MiGs were intercepting an Israeli reconnaissance aircraft off the coast of Lebanon. However, both Syria and Israel deny that this occurred.[92][93][94]

During the 2013 phase of the Syrian civil war, Syrian Fulcrums entered the fray in late October, performing ground attack missions with unguided rockets and bombs against Free Syrian Army insurgents in the Damascus area. [95]
 

Taranis

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Agreed, but not as combat proven as the American aircraft. And its not just the aircraft. its the support. The USAF/RAF and French Airforce are able to turn around their fighters extremely efficiently. They have experience in sustaining weeks of high intensity combat. Their systems are battle proven and there equipment is proven to be reliable. They have flown against Russian made air-defences. The Russians have never been in combat against NATO air defences.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29
What seems to skew opionion of fighter aircraft is that NATO or the US/UK never admits their fighters were shot down. It's always a "crash" isn't it.
 

Fulcrum29

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Agreed, but not as combat proven as the American aircraft. And its not just the aircraft. its the support. The USAF/RAF and French Airforce are able to turn around their fighters extremely efficiently. They have experience in sustaining weeks of high intensity combat. Their systems are battle proven and there equipment is proven to be reliable. They have flown against Russian made air-defences. The Russians have never been in combat against NATO air defences.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29

It has nothing to do with the planes, you can even go see the studies/tests done by the US to test wartime conditions against Sukhoi's, they even purchased (from Ukraine) two Su-27 in 2009 to see why, the 2013 military air show in France (I think) showcased the Sukhoi technology to an enormous extend. Everything is up to the pilots, so yes the NATO/American pilots have experience outside their own territory. Then again I don't think there was any wartime testing against Sukhoi's later than 2006, the last was done along with the IAF (Indian Air Force), this said under correction.

The upgraded MiG-29 is the actual MiG-33 designated the MiG-29M, although the earlier models was only internally upgraded, not every plane as the USSR hit budget problems, the MiG production also severely changed in 2006 and is being engineered and manufactured by another company. Furthermore, many NATO countries are considering to replace (over the long-term) their American planes with Sukhoi's with the Australians being the latest to head in this direction, although I think this has largely to do with unit pricing...

This whole case is the Russian government, not the people, neither the technology.

I also don't know what your link with MiG-29's have to do with anything, since in total the Soviet Air Force back in the day had impressive records (way beyond Vietnam), yes as stated above not that much in NATO territory.
 

Tun@

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Except to take bitchy little dishonest snipes when it suites you, and then to run away when you are called out on it.

Except thats just you misunderstanding the discussion. I wasnt responding to Gary... I was talking about the missing officers...
Quote Originally Posted by ghoti View Post
My own hyseteria?

1) I did not write those articles. Ascribing them to me is dishonest. Also, reporting on news is now hysterical? This bits you bolded from the article were factual. Not sure what your plik is, but its bizarre.
2) They are not hysterical. You are just being dishonest.

Double dishonest from you Technically its triple dishonesty from you if you include your statement that "90%" of the posts are hysterical.

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldn...ia-military-officers-20140323,0,2130469.story

If I respond to someone, I quote them. So any more false claims you wanna bring up?

1)I wasn't referring hysteria to the article Gary posted but your post immediately after it,
2)Your post contained no other links or quotes at the time & was therefore understood to be in reference to the post above it.(Gary's article)
3)YOU oh Godly one are the one that asked for an example & thus that was what i posted otherwise i was ignoring it,so go stick your dishonesty dribble where the sun don't shine.
/sign's out of this thread
 

Fulcrum29

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http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europ...thdrawing-from-ukraine-20143319599463940.html

Russia 'starts' Ukraine border pullout

Reported drawdown of troops takes place as US and Russian foreign ministers meet to discuss crisis.


Ukraine's defence ministry have said it has noticed a gradual withdrawal of Russian troops from its border that may be linked, to Washington's latest push for a diplomatic solution, to the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War.

Oleksiy Dmytrashkivskiy, Ukraine's defence ministry spokesman, said on Monday that he could not confirm how many soldiers the drawdown involved or the number of troops still stationed at Russia's border with its former Soviet satellite.

"In recent days, the Russian forces have been gradually withdrawing from the border," Dmytrashkivskiy told the AFP news agency.

"This could be linked to a regular rotation of soldiers or it may be linked to the Russian-US negotiations." Oleksiy Dmytrashkivskiy, Ukraine defence ministry spokesman.

US and EU officials estimated over the weekend that Russia's sudden military buildup along Ukraine's eastern frontier had reached 30,000 to 40,000 soldiers.

Kiev's Centre for Military and Political Studies analyst Dmytro Tymchuk said on Monday that his sources had told him that Russia had only 10,000 soldiers remaining near the border by Monday morning.

The Ukrainian defence ministry official said Kiev had not been formally notified of the drawdown by Moscow and therefore did not know precisely why the troops were being moved.

"This could be linked to a regular rotation of soldiers," said Dmytrashkivskiy. "Or it may be linked to the Russian-US negotiations."

US Secretary of State John Kerry met Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Paris on Sunday for talks that reached no breakthrough on the crisis but ended with an agreement for the sides to resume negotiations again soon.

During that meeting, Lavrov said he pressed Russia's call for a federal Ukraine of regions free to choose their own economic model, language and religion.

Kerry said he agreed to work with the Ukraine government on those issues, but called for the removal of "illegal and illegitimate" Russian troops in Crimea, which he said were responsible for creating a climate of intimidation in mainland Ukraine.

Crimea economic zone

Meanwhile in Crimea, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev has announced on Monday that Moscow will declare Crimea as a special economic zone with tax breaks to attract investors, according to Reuters news agency.

Medvedev made the announcement during his visit to the former Ukrainian region, flaunting his country's grip on the Black Sea peninsula following its annexation.

Crimean officials have said that the local economy is facing a shortfall and needs economic stimulus from Russia.

Medvedev took several government officials with him on the highest-level visit to Crimea since President Vladimir Putin signed legislation on absorbing it into Russia on March 21.

He vowed to raise the level of salaries for municipal employees and pensions to average Russian levels and to modernise the region's hospitals, which he said were outdated.

"As a result of joining Russia, not one resident of Crimea, not one resident of Sevastopol should lose anything. They can only gain," Medvedev promised during the special cabinet meeting.

Local officials, including Crimean prime minister Sergei Aksyonov, were also present at the meeting that was aired live on Russian state television.

Russia's swift takeover of Crimea, following the ouster of Moscow ally Viktor Yanukovich as Ukraine's president in late February, has caused the biggest crisis in East-West relations since the Cold War.

Glad to see that there is communication in the negotiations.
 

w1z4rd

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1)I wasn't referring hysteria to the article Gary posted but your post immediately after it,

I corrected my post (over 3 hours before you responded), which means you didnt quote me, you quoted someone who quoted my old (and incorrect) post ... just to say this ....as I had corrected it long before you responded here. Which is why your quote is not a direct quote. Totally highlights you have an agenda.

2)Your post contained no other links or quotes at the time & was therefore understood to be in reference to the post above it.(Gary's article)

Your misunderstanding a situation is irrelevant. I was talking about missing officers. I was clear on this. Was Gary talking about missing officers? I dont think so.

3)YOU oh Godly one are the one that asked for an example & thus that was what i posted otherwise i was ignoring it,so go stick your dishonesty dribble where the sun don't shine.
/sign's out of this thread
Seriously....what type of adult says what you just said in a conversation?
 
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