Crystal Web DSL performance feedback thread Part 4...

[Geoff.D]

When this kicked off, i spoke to Paul Hijul a bit, nothing really in depth, just how and why did this happen. Paul didnt really say too much, but i got the feeling, that things were not going to end well based on some of his responses.

I dont want to go back into this issue, but my biggest gripe is that we have not heard anything concrete from Evonet. In fact, i cant remember if there was a name attached to the emails sent initially by Evonet.

Who are the Directors, Shareholders, how did this acquisition really come about. If Evonet has taken over, why not do it fully, change the CW website to reflect their CI and say Evonet is now sole onwership of the CW base, and everything else that comes with it.

Don't know enough to be able to comment. But in all of this debate going on on this forum as well as a few others Evonet is completely silent.
As per CataclysmZA's article, I am assuming that the plan was to take over the brand "CW" as a going concern with an existing customer base. That in my naive view maybe means keeping the cash flowing and paying the dues to keep a working customer base. What other reason would there be ? If that was not the intention, just start up a new ISP?
Right now, the practical side is to offer affected customers a way out, to keep them on the air.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

Don't know enough to be able to comment. But in all of this debate going on on this forum as well as a few others Evonet is completely silent.
As per CataclysmZA's article, I am assuming that the plan was to take over the brand "CW" as a going concern with an existing customer base. That in my naive view maybe means keeping the cash flowing and paying the dues to keep a working customer base. What other reason would there be ? If that was not the intention, just start up a new ISP?
Right now, the practical side is to offer affected customers a way out, to keep them on the air.

Nah, here is the thing Geoff. You either take complete control up front, take on the debt, expenses and whatever came with CW and get rid of the CW brand, or you dont take control at all. Coming in, and saying we will take the customer base for a few years, so that they can start clean is the wrong way they went about this, and took the client base for fools.

The fact that they want to take over the client base, but keep the CW identity, but have the clients pay Evonet is a mess imo. You need to be clear up front in terms of communication, and be open and honest of what the plans are going forward. They Evonet have not been forthcoming in terms of their operation, and thus for me were unethical in terms of their approach.

 

[Fulcrum29]

When this kicked off, i spoke to Paul Hijul a bit, nothing really in depth, just how and why did this happen. Paul didnt really say too much, but i got the feeling, that things were not going to end well based on some of his responses.

I dont want to go back into this issue, but my biggest gripe is that we have not heard anything concrete from Evonet. In fact, i cant remember if there was a name attached to the emails sent initially by Evonet.

Who are the Directors, Shareholders, how did this acquisition really come about. If Evonet has taken over, why not do it fully, change the CW website to reflect their CI and say Evonet is now sole onwership of the CW base, and everything else that comes with it.

Under correction, but evonet.co.za is now parked on crystalweb.co.za, they own the brand now as I understand, however Crystalweb's terms state,

https://crystalweb.co.za/customer-relationship-agreement

This agreement is between a customer (you) and Crystal Web (Pty) Ltd (Crystal Web, we or us).

which proves to be a, uhm, not in accordance with the CPA and ECT Act. Didn't EvoNet acquire Crystal Web's customer book?

FTTB is still indicated as either an OpenServe or EvoNet product. Even the about us page still speaks about the CEO, Shaun, and how he needed Paul.

Paul is sole director on Crystal Web (2014 / 081881 / 07) and on Crystal Web Cloud Services (2016 / 337373 / 07) enterprise registration.

Evonet’s directors are:

- Timothy John Germond,
- Andisile Siyabulela Bam and
- Kristian Jay le Gonidec

Crystalweb.co.za is still registered to Shaun. Don’t know why this hasn’t been updated… as is evonet.co.za.

It is worrisome to see an entity redirect themselves to a website, without stating ownership. From my perspective seeing EvoNet abandon their own website is indicative that they are leaving the wholesale industry or there is more behind this than the parties, involved, are leading us on.

However, I trust Paul and he is definitely no fool. I just believe that he was excluded from oversight of the relationship between Crystal Web and EvoNet and the developments which followed, he should have insisted to be part of that 'dialogue'.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

Under correction, but evonet.co.za is now parked on crystalweb.co.za, they own the brand now as I understand, however Crystalweb's terms state,

https://crystalweb.co.za/customer-relationship-agreement



which proves to be a, uhm, not in accordance with the CPA and ECT Act. Didn't EvoNet acquire Crystal Web's customer book?

FTTB is still indicated as either an OpenServe or EvoNet product. Even the about us page still speaks about the CEO, Shaun, and how he needed Paul.

Paul is sole director on Crystal Web (2014 / 081881 / 07) and on Crystal Web Cloud Services (2016 / 337373 / 07) enterprise registration.

Evonet’s directors are:

- Timothy John Germond,
- Andisile Siyabulela Bam and
- Kristian Jay le Gonidec

Crystalweb.co.za is still registered to Shaun. Don’t know why this hasn’t been updated… as is evonet.co.za.

It is worrisome to see an entity redirect themselves to a website, without stating ownership. From my perspective seeing EvoNet abandon their own website is indicative that they are leaving the wholesale industry or there is more behind this than the parties, involved, are leading us on.

However, I trust Paul and he is definitely no fool. I just believe that he was excluded from oversight of the relationship between Crystal Web and EvoNet and the developments which followed, he should have insisted to be part of that 'dialogue'.

Thanks for the update, as i was looking for that. Either way, Evonet hasn't fully taken control, or have only done so partially. Thus, they have caused confusion, and the cause of all the frustration.

Maybe Paul didnt want Evonet to take control 100%, and his exclusion is the reason why things are not great. I cant see why Paul would give up on CW, having been involved in making them so strong. Something not right there, and would be interesting to hear Shauns take on this matter. However, i doubt very much he will say anything, so for the sake of all, its time to move on and find something else, and warn people about the goings on with Evonet

I also want to reiterate again, that is worrying, that we have not heard a word directly from any of the Evonet directors, or anybody concerning this issue. Its just hey, you are now an Evonet client, and give us your money. Not a chance, i did not sign up with Evonet, and you cannot just take control of me just like that. They Evonet, need to give clients a fair opportunity to leave or stay, not force our hands

 

[CataclysmZA]

In fact, i cant remember if there was a name attached to the emails sent initially by Evonet.

No names attached, which is probably intentional. Helps to avoid people being targeted.

If Evonet has taken over, why not do it fully, change the CW website to reflect their CI and say Evonet is now sole onwership of the CW base, and everything else that comes with it.

Evo wants to become a wholesale provider for their open-access last-mile network, and they can't have that while also having consumer-facing commercial interests that is appropriately branded and directed to work with customers differently. The plan originally was for CW to handle that as a "client" of Evo on their network. When the plan changed, the branding must have been valuable enough to them that they wanted it regardless of the confusion caused by having rights to the brand, but not working with CW directly.

As for why this all started in the first place, I'm not sure myself. I know that the talks to sell off the client base started before the DDoS attacks, so there was no significant drop in revenue or a poor outlook for the company's finances at that point. Data leaks certainly won't destroy them, that much is made clear in today's markets where people forget events like that easily. Shaun strikes me as the kind of man looking for a challenge, and if there's no challenge he gets bored easily. He was the driving force behind the company's vision and direction, and something must have happened to change that. I seem to remember family troubles making things stressful for him, but I'm not sure of the specifics.

I think the injection of capital from Seligmann broke the system as well. That kind of money doesn't come without influence, and these kinds of deals where capital is raised rarely results in the company maintaining its autonomy. Even with the best intentions, humans have their differences of opinion, and they worm their way into the relationships that we build both in business and private life.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

No names attached, which is probably intentional. Helps to avoid people being targeted.



Evo wants to become a wholesale provider for their open-access last-mile network, and they can't have that while also having consumer-facing commercial interests that is appropriately branded and directed to work with customers differently. The plan originally was for CW to handle that as a "client" of Evo on their network. When the plan changed, the branding must have been valuable enough to them that they wanted it regardless of the confusion caused by having rights to the brand, but not working with CW directly.

As for why this all started in the first place, I'm not sure myself. I know that the talks to sell off the client base started before the DDoS attacks, so there was no significant drop in revenue or a poor outlook for the company's finances at that point. Data leaks certainly won't destroy them, that much is made clear in today's markets where people forget events like that easily. Shaun strikes me as the kind of man looking for a challenge, and if there's no challenge he gets bored easily. He was the driving force behind the company's vision and direction, and something must have happened to change that. I seem to remember family troubles making things stressful for him, but I'm not sure of the specifics.

I think the injection of capital from Seligmann broke the system as well. That kind of money doesn't come without influence, and these kinds of deals where capital is raised rarely results in the company maintaining its autonomy. Even with the best intentions, humans have their differences of opinion, and they worm their way into the relationships that we build both in business and private life.

Im not sure that you read the bit, where i stated that clients did not agree to their details being taken over by Evonet, without their consent. I certainly have had no dealings with anybody at Evonet, have not had any proper communication from them, so i dont feel comfortable with a company that has half baked this acquisition

The fact that this just happened so quickly, without clients having been given a proper idea of what might transpire, has not gone down well with me. That clients lines were suspended, still suspended, cancelled etc is an issue which brings ethics into play, and how much of a lack of it there is.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

Well, at least im also now one of those Suspended line victims

 

[Vin82]

Hi, guys.
Another victim here, been suspended since Friday, with no warning what so ever. I was going to move my line back to Telkom but after spending 2 hours on the phone with them on Saturday getting nothing accomplished and getting the distinct feeling that I knew more about the system than the person on the other end, I have decided to put my trust in another ISP again rather and let them sort it out, hopefully they have a direct line to more knowledgeable individuals at Telkom/Openserve and can get me up and running ASAP.

 

[Geoff.D]

Hi, guys.
Another victim here, been suspended since Friday, with no warning what so ever. I was going to move my line back to Telkom but after spending 2 hours on the phone with them on Saturday getting nothing accomplished and getting the distinct feeling that I knew more about the system than the person on the other end, I have decided to put my trust in another ISP again rather and let them sort it out, hopefully they have a direct line to more knowledgeable individuals at Telkom/Openserve and can get me up and running ASAP.

Unfortunately you have not been around for long and may have not followed the whole story as it enfolded.
The systems involved do not automatically update at the same time. There is a delay between the suspension, and the detail being available to anyone, including Telkom , so they can't see what has caused the suspension for a good few hours. Hence neither them or another ISP is able to do anything especially over a weekend.
It is CW that should be sorting this out. There are actions it has to take. Only when your line appears in the holding pool will any ISP be able to take it over.
That includes Telkom as an ISP.
So far only one ISP is truly trying to help and that is AH. Initially, you have to keep hammering at the CW door.
Once you get an SMS to say your line is back in the holding pool can any of the automated systems kick in. So in the meantime, you are between a rock and a hard place.
There is no short term solution as well.
A few of us are trying to convince Telkom to set up some or other dedicated team to handle these things. We have tried to get OpenServe to also take action.

So here are few things you can do.
1. Add your case to the already in process ICASA complaint. The details are here on this thread somewhere.
2. Keep hammering at CW till you get a response to the suspension.
3. Get them to place your line back in the holding pool and then terminate your ISP service with them, or, restore your service.
4. Don't use the word "cancel" in any correspondence with anyone, as it very often gets interpreted as a request to cancel your ADSL line.
5. Then you can call in the help of your preferred ISP. If you choose one deal with that ISP privately.

6. If you have a working activated fixed telephone line, Telkom appear to be able to help especially if you want to transfer the ADSL line back to Telkom. Note this NOT your ISP service. That is a second step.

 

[S7wede]

As to per your earlier jab at me and point number 4. In no correspondence or communication to CW or Evonet or Telkom did I ever use the word cancel. This did not stop my line from being cancelled. This is not fake news or misinformation this is what happened to me. Speaking to Telkom there is not even a reference number for this cancellation and they are just as clueless as to what happened. Management is currently looking into this, but from what I have been told so far by them, it was employee error.

 

[aktor]

So my line got suspended this morning as well. I spoke to Crystalweb, they don't even want to try to help me get it back online, just told me to phone Telkom and ended the chat.
I phoned Telkom, they processed the order to move the ADSL line itself back to Telkom, but told me it'll take 7-14 days?
Sigh.

 

[sn0bl1nd]

Hi guys, same here.
Woke up this morning with no internet.
Asked Crystal Web what's happening and they said my line might be moved back to Telkom.
Spent a few moments on the line with Telkom and they said there was fault.
Went back to CW and explained the situation. They said Telkom should do the port reset and that their hands are tied.
I'm just tired of this back and forth and terrible service for the last year.
Any recs for a new ISP? Unfortunately no fibre in my area yet. So 4mb uncapped (premium).

Thanks

 

[Geoff.D]

As to per your earlier jab at me and point number 4. In no correspondence or communication to CW or Evonet or Telkom did I ever use the word cancel. This did not stop my line from being cancelled. This is not fake news or misinformation this is what happened to me. Speaking to Telkom there is not even a reference number for this cancellation and they are just as clueless as to what happened. Management is currently looking into this, but from what I have been told so far by them, it was employee error.

Why do you think it a jab at you?
You had the experience , I have indicated the dangers of using the word cancel, and why it should be avoided. It is not fake news it happened to you and at least one other person who did use the word in an email.
My point number 4 is a flag trying to prevent the same happening to someone else.

 

[Geoff.D]

Hi guys, same here.
Woke up this morning with no internet.
Asked Crystal Web what's happening and they said my line might be moved back to Telkom.
Spent a few moments on the line with Telkom and they said there was fault.
Went back to CW and explained the situation. They said Telkom should do the port reset and that their hands are tied.
I'm just tired of this back and forth and terrible service for the last year.
Any recs for a new ISP? Unfortunately no fibre in my area yet. So 4mb uncapped (premium).

Thanks

Is your ADSL line still showing on your telephone account from Telkom? If so, that would be your first port of call after resetting your router and the line still being down.
If not then:
CW is not playing the game here. You appointed them to manage your line on your behalf.
They should be following this up with Openserve, NOT you.
If the line is back in the holding pool then they should see that it has been moved back, not say it might have been.
Telkom on the other hand wont immediately see that the line is in the holding pool because of the delay in the process. Both CW and Telkom should be able to request a reset by accessing the Openserve system. CW should be doing it. If it is a fault then CW should be taking action on your behalf. If Telkom do it it is as a favour.

What should you do? You could get Telkom or Another ISP to try and check for you.
If you have a working fixed line telephone service, transfer the ADSL line to Telkom. Then at least you will have a direct reporting line when ADSL or line faults occur.
THEN decide who you want to be your ISP.
It could be Telkom or anyone else of your choosing.

 

[Vin82]

Unfortunately you have not been around for long and may have not followed the whole story as it enfolded.
The systems involved do not automatically update at the same time. There is a delay between the suspension, and the detail being available to anyone, including Telkom , so they can't see what has caused the suspension for a good few hours. Hence neither them or another ISP is able to do anything especially over a weekend.
It is CW that should be sorting this out. There are actions it has to take. Only when your line appears in the holding pool will any ISP be able to take it over.
That includes Telkom as an ISP.
So far only one ISP is truly trying to help and that is AH. Initially, you have to keep hammering at the CW door.
Once you get an SMS to say your line is back in the holding pool can any of the automated systems kick in. So in the meantime, you are between a rock and a hard place.
There is no short term solution as well.
A few of us are trying to convince Telkom to set up some or other dedicated team to handle these things. We have tried to get OpenServe to also take action.

So here are few things you can do.
1. Add your case to the already in process ICASA complaint. The details are here on this thread somewhere.
2. Keep hammering at CW till you get a response to the suspension.
3. Get them to place your line back in the holding pool and then terminate your ISP service with them, or, restore your service.
4. Don't use the word "cancel" in any correspondence with anyone, as it very often gets interpreted as a request to cancel your ADSL line.
5. Then you can call in the help of your preferred ISP. If you choose one deal with that ISP privately.

6. If you have a working activated fixed telephone line, Telkom appear to be able to help especially if you want to transfer the ADSL line back to Telkom. Note this NOT your ISP service. That is a second step.

Thanks for the info, I've been following this issue since the first round of suspensions in October so I'm very familiar with all that has transpired and the things you guys have tried to get your lines reconnected.

I contacted evonet/crystal web the minute I got home Friday and found out my line was down again. All they could tell me was the line was suspended and that I needed to contact Telkom to find out why. To say I was upset by that response was an understatement, especially since it was a Friday evening with no immediate recourse available. To add insult to injury Telkom also tells me the next day that they can only offer me 4mb line speed, which is half the speed I had before this colossal balls up. So, in conclusion, I'm left hoping now that the ISP I have signed up with can make a plan to keep my line at the same speed when they pick it up from the holding pool, but I'm not very hopeful after the weekend I've just had.

 

[Anakha56]

Well Telkom now have no clue about what is happening with my DSL line. No information regarding holding pool or anything to that effect. "CW" have no idea what is going on and the person who is handling my ICASA complaint from Telkom is not responding to my emails. What a colossal balls up...

My line is still working but man I need to get this moved to Telkom ASAP...

 

[Geoff.D]

It is never a good thing when too many parties try to manage the same issue at the same time.
Theoretically, it should be impossible for a working line to end up in the holding pool. Unless of course your case has exposed another flaw in the holding pool process!

 

[ReneeGK]

Jaha, I have a working line again! Was also suspended on Friday without any information, never did the cancellation after last months diseaster. CW were again not able to do anything, cancelled Friday evening everything, AH couldn't retreive line from Telkom because of pending order. Called Telkom sales, there was no pending order, line was not in holding pool or anything; all they could do was order a new dsl line, would take 7 to 14 days and technician had to come out. As no other option I agreed to that; and for some reason 7 to 14 minutes later I have a working line. No idea with who, but it works.

 

[Anakha56]

@Geoff.D Well in my ICASA complaint I did say that disconnecting me without proper consultation will be an illegal move on either parties part. Maybe thats why I am "special"? lol

From CW:

Support General
Telkom moved these lines without informing anyone

Telkom Sales says my line is active and not showing in the holding pool or cancelled and my account only has a voice portion no DSL portion. "CW" say that they cannot assist further because all lines were moved away from their control.

 

[Sultan69 ZA]

I've placed a cancellation of my voice line with Telkom as I've given up on my adsl line being migrated back to the holding pool.
"Cancellation Effective Date: 2018/12/17"
Hopefully after the 17th of december, it'll mean that the telkom line is completely cancelled, with no shenanigans regarding any adsl line rental costs.

The person handling my ICASA complaint (Ramagoma) has been ignoring my emails since 9 November.

I've resorted to ordering LTE with Web Africa. I've been up for about 2 weeks with them now.