Crystal Web (NEW ISP) ADSL Feedback

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Crystal Web said:
Yes. The reason it's not stated outright is that the vast majority of ADSL users don't know what nntp traffic is, so it only serves to create more questions and queries than anything else. Try explaining nntp traffic to Aunty Margaret. :D

I will try to add it to our policy with some clarity though...
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Maybe change nomenclature from P2P to "File sharing and bulk downloads"?
 
JustinB said:
Good stuff. Some additional questions...
Is shaping dynamic based on network utilisation? Will it get relaxed during off-peak hours? Or if I'm the top 50% will my nntp downloads suck til i get displaced into the bottom 50% - which may or may not happen?

I guess - with the OW devil i know, i know with a fair amount of certainty that at 8am my connection dies, at 5pm it revives... irrespective of usage... What would my experience be with CW assuming i fall into this 50% high user bucket?

P.S. my VPN is only for work purposes, I believe shaping is a necessary evil to manage people like me :)
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Shaping is dynamic, tiered, and time-based. Heavy day-time p2p users will be shaped harder on p2p (incl nntp) protocols than a heavy user watching Netflix at 7pm. We are building a transparent status of this shaping into our customer portal as we speak. Our developers are already moaning at me about it. :D

Also remember that we only shape your p2p and nntp traffic. So you overall experience will be great - but downloading your latest Linux ISOs will be affected. That's all. It isn't opened after hours - the shaping exists until your usage falls below the requirement.

We are however looking at introducing "free-hours" where your midnight to 7am traffic doesn't count towards shaping rules. These sorts of developments will continue to evolve as we grow and as we get feedback from customers...
 
Sinbad said:
Maybe change nomenclature from P2P to "File sharing and bulk downloads"?
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Difficult, as tech-savy users may assume this applies to http downloads too, but thanks for the suggestion. I'll put my grammar fascist hat on tonight and figure something out that's both transparent and accurate...
 
Crystal Web said:
Shaping is dynamic, tiered, and time-based. Heavy day-time p2p users will be shaped harder on p2p (incl nntp) protocols than a heavy user watching Netflix at 7pm. We are building a transparent status of this shaping into our customer portal as we speak. Our developers are already moaning at me about it. :D
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I would happily jump ship to an honest (looking at you openweb), transparent (looking at you mweb) ISP...
 
Crystal Web said:
Shaping is dynamic, tiered, and time-based. Heavy day-time p2p users will be shaped harder on p2p (incl nntp) protocols than a heavy user watching Netflix at 7pm. We are building a transparent status of this shaping into our customer portal as we speak. Our developers are already moaning at me about it. :D

Also remember that we only shape your p2p and nntp traffic. So you overall experience will be great - but downloading your latest Linux ISOs will be affected. That's all. It isn't opened after hours - the shaping exists until your usage falls below the requirement.

We are however looking at introducing "free-hours" where your midnight to 7am traffic doesn't count towards shaping rules. These sorts of developments will continue to evolve as we grow and as we get feedback from customers...
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i understand and i don't... I'll try articulate what i'm struggling with.

I understand that p2p and nntp are prone to abuse, but surely the heavy user should be equally "prejudiced" regardless of the service he uses (streaming video with netflix vs. downloading with nntp).

Said differently, if I'm primarily using nntp, by singling out p2p/nntp and shaping "dynamically, tiered, and time-based" means that i will be shaped harder vs equal high data users (who'll get a perfect experience watching many GB of youtube :P)
 
Someone asked for daytime pings to Diablo servers...

eu_battle_net_again.png
 
JustinB said:
i understand and i don't... I'll try articulate what i'm struggling with.

I understand that p2p and nntp are prone to abuse, but surely the heavy user should be equally "prejudiced" regardless of the service he uses (streaming video with netflix vs. downloading with nntp).

Said differently, if I'm primarily using nntp, by singling out p2p/nntp and shaping "dynamically, tiered, and time-based" means that i will be shaped harder vs equal high data users (who'll get a perfect experience watching many GB of youtube :P)
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P2P is by and large the biggest culprit for network degradation, especially during the day, hence our policy.

To try to create a dynamic shaper that shapes the specific traffic that you're using "too much of" is just not the way we want to do business.

We can manage a great product, at a great price-point, using the above shaping method...
 
jano said:
Any chance of access to the news server for an early-adopter? ;)
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We are very busy behind the scenes with this integration on the RADIUS. We have unfortunately handed out all trial accounts of the news server access for now. Hold tight though. Access to the best news server in SA is coming soon...
 
Crystal Web said:
We are very busy behind the scenes with this integration on the RADIUS. We have unfortunately handed out all trial accounts of the news server access for now. Hold tight though. Access to the best news server in SA is coming soon...
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Hmm. Will nntp to your local news server be subject to the shaping?
 
Sinbad said:
Hmm. Will nntp to your local news server be subject to the shaping?
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Yes. At launch it will. We're looking at ways to mitigate this though. Schedule them to run between midnight and 7am and it has far less impact on the shaping applied. Later we will introduce something similar to various ISPs' night surfer option where the data is either free or doesn't count towards shaping...
 
Crystal Web said:
P2P is by and large the biggest culprit for network degradation, especially during the day, hence our policy.

To try to create a dynamic shaper that shapes the specific traffic that you're using "too much of" is just not the way we want to do business.

We can manage a great product, at a great price-point, using the above shaping method...
Click to expand...

What about exceptions to the rule like vindictus? (p2p used to host games afaik)
 
Necuno said:
What about exceptions to the rule like vindictus? (p2p used to host games afaik)
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Case by case basis for now. Upon launch, this will be shaped if your usage falls in the stated percentages.

We can discuss this with our customers along the way though, but if we're going to get hammered on exceptions then we can't. Needs a proper investigation on our part, and perhaps a few gaming testers too. We might ask a few clients such as yourself to become testers of new products here and there as well, especially on the gaming side where my personal knowledge is admittedly lacking...
 
Crystal Web said:
Case by case basis for now. Upon launch, this will be shaped if your usage falls in the stated percentages.

We can discuss this with our customers along the way though, but if we're going to get hammered on exceptions then we can't. Needs a proper investigation on our part, and perhaps a few gaming testers too. We might ask a few clients such as yourself to become testers of new products here and there as well, especially on the gaming side where my personal knowledge is admittedly lacking...
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Thanks. Just really really curious if something like this would ever work and not over tax the "shaping ruler".

Most MMOs and Games I played so far don't use p2p as hosting, vindictus is just one case I remember. Moreover thesedays you can select your patcher/downloader to include p2p as a distribution method or switch it off alltogether using just direct downloading.

I'd be more the happy to help-it-out where I can as long as it excludes classic asp and vb6 development ;) :)
 
Crystal Web said:
We are very busy behind the scenes with this integration on the RADIUS. We have unfortunately handed out all trial accounts of the news server access for now. Hold tight though. Access to the best news server in SA is coming soon...
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:) Keen to see what thats about.
 
Crystal Web said:
P2P is by and large the biggest culprit for network degradation, especially during the day, hence our policy.

To try to create a dynamic shaper that shapes the specific traffic that you're using "too much of" is just not the way we want to do business.

We can manage a great product, at a great price-point, using the above shaping method...
Click to expand...

Sorry, i don't think i explained myself properly then.

I'm not saying shape what you use too much of - what i'm challenging is if I'm 1 of 2 users with equal (heavy) usage, that i'm shaped to hell while the other user can merrily do other stuff (that may use more data than the latest distro i'm trying to watch :P) just because its on a different protocol. And if thems the rules, then thems the rules.

Please don't misinterpret my questions for negativity, i guess you've had to debate this stuff and find what satisfies all parties the most.
 
JustinB said:
Sorry, i don't think i explained myself properly then.

I'm not saying shape what you use too much of - what i'm challenging is if I'm 1 of 2 users with equal (heavy) usage, that i'm shaped to hell while the other user can merrily do other stuff (that may use more data than the latest distro i'm trying to watch :P) just because its on a different protocol. And if thems the rules, then thems the rules.

Please don't misinterpret my questions for negativity, i guess you've had to debate this stuff and find what satisfies all parties the most.
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So based on what you saying, realtime protocols should have the same priority as other protocols :erm:?
 
JustinB said:
Sorry, i don't think i explained myself properly then.

I'm not saying shape what you use too much of - what i'm challenging is if I'm 1 of 2 users with equal (heavy) usage, that i'm shaped to hell while the other user can merrily do other stuff (that may use more data than the latest distro i'm trying to watch :P) just because its on a different protocol. And if thems the rules, then thems the rules.

Please don't misinterpret my questions for negativity, i guess you've had to debate this stuff and find what satisfies all parties the most.
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What would cause one user to be shaped while the other user isn't shaped even though they both have the same usage though?
 
efitol said:
What would cause one user to be shaped while the other user isn't shaped even though they both have the same usage though?
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From my reading of the thread so far it seems that P2P will be penalised at the expense of VoD. In the US VoD traffic outstrips P2P by several magnitudes these days, be interesting to see SA stats.
 
MickZA said:
From my reading of the thread so far it seems that P2P will be penalised at the expense of VoD. In the US VoD traffic outstrips P2P by several magnitudes these days, be interesting to see SA stats.
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No **** Sherlock: they don't have Naspers :D
 
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