Crystal Web (NEW ISP) ADSL Feedback

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efitol said:
What would cause one user to be shaped while the other user isn't shaped even though they both have the same usage though?
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Think you're getting confused with throttling and shaping.

Protocols get shaped.
 
Crystal Web said:
Yes. At launch it will. We're looking at ways to mitigate this though. Schedule them to run between midnight and 7am and it has far less impact on the shaping applied. Later we will introduce something similar to various ISPs' night surfer option where the data is either free or doesn't count towards shaping...
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Would be nice if (eventually) the same goes for Steam downloads. Obviously not a priority at this stage though...
 
HavocXphere said:
Would be nice if (eventually) the same goes for Steam downloads. Obviously not a priority at this stage though...
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Yeah they're huge. And unfortunately they do impact on network performance, so it has to be factored in when making a call on this sort of thing.

Unfortunately given IPC costs, ISPs have to be creative, and more importantly, selective about what they "give". We're of the opinion that the downwards price-pushing of the market should have played second fiddle to offering a better quality of service to customers. It would have left headroom within current pricing models to make easier calls like this...
 
Crystal Web said:
Unfortunately given IPC costs, ISPs have to be creative, and more importantly, selective about what they "give". We're of the opinion that the downwards price-pushing of the market should have played second fiddle to offering a better quality of service to customers. It would have left headroom within current pricing models to make easier calls like this...
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Of course. Handing out free stuff doesn't make for a particularly viable business model.

Crystal Web said:
And unfortunately they do impact on network performance, so it has to be factored in when making a call on this sort of thing.
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Yip. Not massively worried about Steam though. I've got some tricks up my sleeve in that regard. :D
 
Crystal Web said:
Yeah they're huge. And unfortunately they do impact on network performance, so it has to be factored in when making a call on this sort of thing.

Unfortunately given IPC costs, ISPs have to be creative, and more importantly, selective about what they "give". We're of the opinion that the downwards price-pushing of the market should have played second fiddle to offering a better quality of service to customers. It would have left headroom within current pricing models to make easier calls like this...
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But isn't that the point of starting a brand new ISP? You can do that. No one says you have to price super cheap like the other ISPs.

With so many of us paying for Business accounts this should have been obvious. No one likes the super cheap products because they are crap. Rather price higher and give something decent.

Otherwise there was no point if even launching as I'll just go back to my Web Africa Business.
 
Big Bean said:
So based on what you saying, realtime protocols should have the same priority as other protocols :erm:?
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efitol said:
What would cause one user to be shaped while the other user isn't shaped even though they both have the same usage though?
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ok lets recap...

CrystalWeb say they only shape P2P (incl NNTP) if you're in the top 50% of users.

So what i'm saying is, lets take a situation where we have 2 users - user 1 and user 2, who both are in the top 50% - both have downloaded 500gb (of P2P/NNTP) on their 4mb uncapped account. User 1 doesn't use anything besides NNTP to get his weekly fix of Game of Thrones, while User 2 is happy to watch HD videos of kittens on Youtube. My point is user 1 will (in theory) get shaped more to give the bandwidth to user 2 just coz NNTP is deemed bad - but the reality is they're both equal bandwidth hogs.

This is based on my understanding...

As an aside - i've never had to really think about such things before, so its actually kinda cool that this is making me think like an ISP (sort of...)
 
Chevron said:
But isn't that the point of starting a brand new ISP? You can do that. No one says you have to price super cheap like the other ISPs.

With so many of us paying for Business accounts this should have been obvious. No one likes the super cheap products because they are crap. Rather price higher and give something decent.

Otherwise there was no point if even launching as I'll just go back to my Web Africa Business.
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I'm certainly not stating that we're not going to offer added value. If that's what you took away from my post then perhaps I didn't word it correctly. And our model is not to be a niche, expensive player in the market, but rather to strike and maintain the optimum price and value points for our customers. So when analysing whether to offer something free of charge, this needs to be considered at all times. And high IPC costs are simply the realities of this market - there's no shying away of this fact...
 
MickZA said:
From my reading of the thread so far it seems that P2P will be penalised at the expense of VoD. In the US VoD traffic outstrips P2P by several magnitudes these days, be interesting to see SA stats.
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There is a very interesting dynamic at play. In the long term it is almost inevitable that VoD and other content packages will outstrip P2P and even NNTP+P2P traffic. However VoD users require priority in order for the service to be usable, and VoD providers have an interest in investing in network infrastructure to allow for their content to be sold.
 
Paul Hjul said:
... and VoD providers have an interest in investing in network infrastructure to allow for their content to be sold.
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Should we read something into this insofar as CrystalWeb is concerned? I've been anticipating a move in this direction by an ISP since the collapse of Telkoms discussions with Netflix earlier this year.
 
Crystal Web said:
Difficult, as tech-savy users may assume this applies to http downloads too, but thanks for the suggestion. I'll put my grammar fascist hat on tonight and figure something out that's both transparent and accurate...
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Just say P2P/NNTP
 
MickZA said:
Should we read something into this insofar as CrystalWeb is concerned? I've been anticipating a move in this direction by an ISP since the collapse of Telkoms discussions with Netflix earlier this year.
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You should read that CrystalWeb is looking very carefully at how to cause the development of VoD infrastructure into the South African market and that whilst we are committed to Internet standards and are against discriminating against traffic on the basis of it not providing revenue we do see a need for ISPs to engage on methods of delivering quality commodity Internet services to end consumers on a pricing structure that maximizes access ;)
 
Sinbad said:
DCC is P2P
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Depends if it was a persons pc or off a dedicated DCC server. You connected to dcc servers and had client/server relationship. Though I guess when it was run off a persons pc, thats more peer to peer.
 
Paul Hjul said:
You should read that CrystalWeb is looking very carefully at how to cause the development of VoD infrastructure into the South African market and that whilst we are committed to Internet standards and are against discriminating against traffic on the basis of it not providing revenue we do see a need for ISPs to engage on methods of delivering quality commodity Internet services to end consumers on a pricing structure that maximizes access ;)
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As well as fully supporting locally hosted and distributed, legal content live and on-demand...
 
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