D3 Demon Hunters Conclave

Crusader said:
Pain Enhancer and the Toxin one can also be useful now, depending on the build you use. The toxin one also now works with sentries.
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I've been using low level toxin since it seems better than low level powerful...but in that case it might be worth leveling up.
 
Archer said:
My gut feel is that Powerful will be more effective solo, while Toxin will be better in a group if the group has a similar DPS output to what you have. If you have a Calamity however, toxin wins since currently equipping those two allow sentries to apply marked for death
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I think Toxin should also trigger MfD. Need to test that...

Edit:
Toxin also triggers MfD, where previously only pain enhancer did. Toxin would definitely be my choice in group using Calamity over Powerful. 10% extra dmg from all sources + 20% extra from MfD.
 
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I prefer Hexing pants over TnT. Gloves being such a critical slot to get right on the dps rolls. The 3 main stats for gloves are CHC=CHD>DEX AS being the 4th most important. So if you get 2 of the top 3, then everything else is fine. Mara gloves guaranteed Dex and CHC, so you only have to get lucky on either CHD or AS, to be able to roll the 4th into the missing stat for a quadfecta glove. TNT, guarantees AS, which is the least important stat for the gloves slot. Meaning you must get much luckier on the 2 most important stats for gloves.

Hexing pants on the other hand, need nothing in particular. You are almost guaranteed to roll Dex and Vit on either Mara or Hexing pants. The only other mandatory stat is the Sockets. Mara guarantees the sockets. But Hexing can easily just roll one of the two extra stats into sockets. And seeing as the primary skill dmg% rolls (EG bola shot, entangling shot...etc) are not necessary, legs are just there for Base Stats, If you happen to roll a bad pair on base stats, so what. You still get the 25% dmg boost while moving. You just need to play a little more carefully until finding a better pair.

Rolling a bad pair of TnT is a nightmare though. As a bad pair of TnT will not outdps a bad pair of hexing pants, considering that a great pair of Mara gloves is almost guaranteed.

I dont even think that a perfect pair of TnT is better than the hexing pants alternative, once you factor in your own increased dps due to resource gain and 25% increased dmg burst per shot.
 
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SoulTax said:
I prefer Hexing pants over TnT. Gloves being such a critical slot to get right on the dps rolls. The 3 main stats for gloves are CHC=CHD>DEX AS being the 4th most important. So if you get 2 of the top 3, then everything else is fine. Mara gloves guaranteed Dex and CHC, so you only have to get lucky on either CHD or AS, to be able to roll the 4th into the missing stat for a quadfecta glove. TNT, guarantees AS, which is the least important stat for the gloves slot. Meaning you must get much luckier on the 2 most important stats for gloves.

Hexing pants on the other hand, need nothing in particular. You are almost guaranteed to roll Dex and Vit on either Mara or Hexing pants. The only other mandatory stat is the Sockets. Mara guarantees the sockets. But Hexing can easily just roll one of the two extra stats into sockets. And seeing as the primary skill dmg% rolls (EG bola shot, entangling shot...etc) are not necessary, legs are just there for Base Stats, If you happen to roll a bad pair on base stats, so what. You still get the 25% dmg boost while moving. You just need to play a little more carefully until finding a better pair.

Rolling a bad pair of TnT is a nightmare though. As a bad pair of TnT will not outdps a bad pair of hexing pants, considering that a great pair of Mara gloves is almost guaranteed.

I dont even think that a perfect pair of TnT is better than the hexing pants alternative, once you factor in your own increased dps due to resource gain and 25% increased dmg burst per shot.
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Have Hexing Pants on my non-Season set - went back to Marauders - just too much running around required.
 
Soultax - TnT outperforms Hex pants by 20% (assuming equal gloves and pants in each case). The 50% crit damage you may have extra on mara gloves brings the difference down to roughly 12%, still in favour of TnT. Of course this is only the case if you understand where the breakpoints are and take advantage of the 45% IAS for the sentries.
 
But TnT is needed to get the right breakpoints for your sentries. Without it you'll need loads of AS on just about all of your other items to make it work efficiently.
 
But you can reach 1.46 pretty easily without TnT. And with TnT 2.16 is the most likely aim. The only difference between these two breakpoints is roughly 25 bolts or elemental arrows per 30 seconds. The CA and MS is the same for both breakpoints.
So 25 bolts vs (25% global dmg )
I dunno, I just feel like the latter has to be stronger if played correctly.

And the fact that a well rolled set of TnT is much much harder to come by. Sanity is a factor when gearing too.
 
breakpoints:

/deletes rubbish and uses google

Right: Source


All credit goes to gfocus on a Chinese community forum. I only translated the data to English.

DISCLAIMER: USE THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY LOSS OF DPS OR RAGE INDUCED DUE TO WRONG INTERPRETATION OF THE DATA OR INACCURATE DATA.

Original thread:
http://bbs.d.163.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=172915447

This is an exhaustive list of all spender setups on the 2.1 PTR, up to a maximum of 3 spenders slotted.
It displays the number of spender and the number of regular bolts fired in a 30-second cycle for each setup. I find the table extremely useful to min/max my output.

UPDATE: It looks like there are some inaccurate data regarding BP6 & 7 (frame 18 & 12), according to Nyan. Test it yourself if you care enough. Otherwise, it should still roughly give you an idea without being too far off.

1 spender:
http://imgur.com/T1KaK3J

2 spenders:
http://imgur.com/KgmGnjU

3 spenders:
http://imgur.com/p1nAOPG

Abbreviations:
BP = Breakpoint
CA = Cluster Arrow
MS = Multishot
Imp = Impale
Chak = Chakram
EA = Elemental Arrow
Bolts = Sentry auto attack. Note that EA or Chakram will completely replace bolts should you use them.

BP table for reference:
BP.......APS (rounded to 3 dp)
1.........1.102
2.........1.256
3.........1.459
4.........1.742
5.........2.160
6.........2.842
7.........4.154

If you don't know the basic mechanics of sentry attack speed breakpoints,
please refer to Jaybird's "The Tao of Sentries" thread:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12945884471
Click to expand...
 
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Based on the calculator Archer posted there's about 1 mil dmg difference with Yan performing lower than a TnT that gives you the 2.842 breakpoint.
 
AfricanTech said:
breakpoints:

/deletes rubbish and uses google

Right: Source
Click to expand...

Ye, had them bookmarked for ages. If you look at breakpoint 3 vs breakpoint 5, the two most likely targets for the non TnT and TnT setups respectively, With a XBow. The only difference is 12 bolts vs 37 bolts. (Or Elemental Arrows). So 25 attacks in total. But the cluster arrows and Multishots dont change at all.

Like I said, a perfectly rolled TnT is great. But what happens if you roll Dex, Vit, AS and life per hit? You reroll the Life per hit into CHC or CHD and are left with one major dps stat missing.

Overall, the hexing pants plus 5 piece mara is much easier to gear for and get a 95% optimised set. The TnT + 5 piece mara looks to be superior on paper, but in game, how much harder is it to find TnT in the first place, never mind a well rolled pair.
 
I ran the numbers on my gear which has a crap TnT, I only had dex and IAS (so basically the worst TnT you can get, rerolled something into CC) - and that results in a 12% difference in favour of TnT assuming I get Mara gloves in their place with IAS/CC/CHD all perfectly rolled (TnT 56mil vs Hex 48mil since I drop 3 BPs with Hex). I think what you are neglecting to take into account is that MS and CA are not where the damage comes from, its not even the bolts, its the rockets. And you get way way way more rockets with TnT, and this easily surpasses the +25% from Hex pants

And you actually do get more MS/CA shots off too, their cooldowns decrease as you get higher BPs, which means slightly more rockets from here too
 
Archer said:
I ran the numbers on my gear which has a crap TnT, I only had dex and IAS (so basically the worst TnT you can get, rerolled something into CC) - and that results in a 12% difference in favour of TnT assuming I get Mara gloves in their place with IAS/CC/CHD all perfectly rolled. I think what you are neglecting to take into account is that MS and CA are not where the damage comes from, its not even the bolts, its the rockets. And you get way way way more rockets with TnT, and this easily surpasses the +25% from Hex pants

And you actually do get more MS/CA shots off too, their cooldowns decrease as you get higher BPs, which means slightly more rockets from here too
Click to expand...

Suppose I haven't really been considering the rockets.

When you swapped out the TnT for the Mara, did you also swap out your mara legs for the Hexing pants buff?
 
SoulTax said:
Suppose I haven't really been considering the rockets.

When you swapped out the TnT for the Mara, did you also swap out your mara legs for the Hexing pants buff?
Click to expand...

Indeed I did, without clicking the hex buff the comparison is a bit silly :p I'll find the one that lets you save and then share my loadout. Who knows, maybe I'm doing something wrong
 
Archer said:
Indeed I did, without clicking the hex buff the comparison is a bit silly :p I'll find the one that lets you save and then share my loadout. Who knows, maybe I'm doing something wrong
Click to expand...

Appreciated. What weapon are you using? Standard hard hitting 2handed Crossbow or something else?
 
I think I did my calculation wrong, since I'd actually not be able to hit the 2.16 breakpoint with current gear and Marauder's gloves.
With TnT @ 2.84 dmg = 63.5 mil
With Hexing pants @ 1.74 = 53.7 mil
 
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