DA: 'Correct' BEE imperative

Hoof-Hearted said:
Somehow I think the majority of those middle class millions would prefer if their achivements were attributed to their own hard work and perseverence rather than AA/BEE :rolleyes:
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ignore most of this, as this guy is a bit of a fruitcake... but he makes some funny comments about when Mandela took over the South African government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuEc-nFULY8

if anyone gets upset watching this, tough ****, dont flame me.

email him :D
 
sox63 said:
Ask the few million or so black middle class people and I'm sure they would disagree. ;)
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I doubt that. Those black middle class were more likely to benefit from AA. BEE seems to be the exclusive play thing of the Black elite and easily bribed government officials.
 
Hoof-Hearted said:
Somehow I think the majority of those middle class millions would prefer if their achivements were attributed to their own hard work and perseverence rather than AA/BEE :rolleyes:
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Well yeah, I don't know if I'd derive any job satisfaction if I had to wonder whether I had got the job because I'm an AA candidate or through my actual expertise. What if I would like some international work - am I good enough?
 
Hoof-Hearted said:
Somehow I think the majority of those middle class millions would prefer if their achivements were attributed to their own hard work and perseverence rather than AA/BEE :rolleyes:
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I dont think you understood me. I said BEE of which AA (@ timgaul) is an element of, created opportunities for people to take advantage of, and by that I mean WORK to achieve where they are.
 
sox63 said:
I dont think you understood me. I said BEE of which AA (@ timgaul) is an element of, created opportunities for people to take advantage of, and by that I mean WORK to achieve where they are.
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BEE and AA are separate entities and could (essentially) function independently of each other. AA is for individual candidates, BEE is for overall company perception. Having AA candidates does not ensure BEE accreditation; nor do you have to use AA to ensure BEE compliance.

As such, BEE is used as an excuse by many government and major corporations to give a leg up to their "buddies" that use and abuse the system, usually claiming that one company is more BEE compliant than another and only giving them the business - as I said, a "Black Broederbond" as it were.

So the problem lies in the implementation and ranking designations of the BEE system that can be abused to make one company more BEE than another; and thereby, mask the actual underhanded bribery and corruption inherent in the system!
 
theratman said:
People give the DA too much credit.Think they will go into power and things will quickly change?(5years)
BEE and AA are here to stay,be glad you are not getting shafted by it yet.
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BEE & AA... you people just want everything for free... most people study & work hard to get where they are ;)
 
I've yet to read post stating that the DA is a racist party, punishing white people of today because of things done by their parents and grand parents during Apartheid. Grand hypocrisy!!!
 
Sly21C said:
I've yet to read post stating that the DA is a racist party, punishing white people of today because of things done by their parents and grand parents during Apartheid. Grand hypocrisy!!!
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The caveat is that it should be correctly designed. Nobody disagrees in that BEE is required, they disagree with the implementation because it's not conducive to sustainable economic growth and the long-term upliftment of those requiring aid the most.
 
Messugga said:
The caveat is that it should be correctly designed. Nobody disagrees in that BEE is required, they disagree with the implementation because it's not conducive to sustainable economic growth and the long-term upliftment of those requiring aid the most.
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Nicely said.
 
Messugga said:
The caveat is that it should be correctly designed. Nobody disagrees in that BEE is required, they disagree with the implementation because it's not conducive to sustainable economic growth and the long-term upliftment of those requiring aid the most.
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Great post, but I have to disagree with you on something. Regarding the bold word, a lot of people disagree with BEE in its entirety. Those people normally refer to the ANC as a racist party and so they should also refer to the DA as a racist party, otherwise if they don't they they are hypocrites.

My only problem with BEE is that it mostly benefits the few, well connected individuals.
 
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Sly21C said:
Great post, but I have to disagree with you on something. Regarding the bold word, a lot of people disagree with BEE in its entirety. Those people normally refer to the ANC as a racist party and so they should also refer to the DA as a racist party, otherwise they don't they they are hypocrites.

My only problem with BEE is that it mostly benefits the few, well connected individuals.
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Okay, to be fair I exclude the absolute right-wing mouth-breathing nutters from "everyone" as I reckon they've forfeited their right to an opinion. Let me rephrase then: no reasonable person has a problem with the idea of BEE. Better?
 
Messugga said:
Okay, to be fair I exclude the absolute right-wing mouth-breathing nutters from "everyone" as I reckon they've forfeited their right to an opinion. Let me rephrase then: no reasonable person has a problem with the idea of BEE. Better?
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Very happy! :)
 
Messugga said:
Okay, to be fair I exclude the absolute right-wing mouth-breathing nutters from "everyone" as I reckon they've forfeited their right to an opinion. Let me rephrase then: no reasonable person has a problem with the idea of BEE. Better?
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LOL! And who are you to decide that? :)
 
Having as many of your citizens participate in the economy should be an objective of any government.

Making it a policy is idiotic in the extreme as it meddles in a market that doesn't need it and it adds unnecessary expense.
 
Schavuit said:
LOL! And who are you to decide that? :)
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To decide what? The vast majority of people on this forum has no issue with the concept of AA itself but rather the implementation thereof, in my experience. It's not a matter of anyone deciding anything. The majority rules.

If you mean my comment regarding a right to an opinion, that's in my own opinion and I wouldn't expect anyone to agree with me because I said so.
 
Messugga said:
To decide what? The vast majority of people on this forum has no issue with the concept of AA itself but rather the implementation thereof, in my experience. It's not a matter of anyone deciding anything. The majority rules.

If you mean my comment regarding a right to an opinion, that's in my own opinion and I wouldn't expect anyone to agree with me because I said so.
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I am only one, not a vast majority. I have an issue with AA. It is a racist policy. The only issue that I have regarding its implementation is that it shouldn't exist in the first place.
 
Albereth said:
I am only one, not a vast majority. I have an issue with AA. It is a racist policy. The only issue that I have regarding its implementation is that it shouldn't exist in the first place.
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If you don't understand that some form of upliftment strategy needs to be put in place in order to make the economy viable - make fewer poor people poor - then I don't know.

A personal niggle I have and this is where implementation comes in, is that it shouldn't be limited to race but rather background. I think UCT's proposed new pricing system for students does it well - your race is irrelevant but your financial status isn't. This is also where I believe economic empowerment should take place. You need to up-skill people and churn out those engineers and doctors without sacrificing standards. Private companies will employ on merit as those of merit will make them money. Those not doing so will simply be left behind in an open market.

Would you disagree with that notion, Albereth?

Obviously you need to target those people who have been left furthest behind first. I suppose it's the simplest method, but I don't understand why this has to be done based on race.
 
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saksakgp said:
How many black people owned German cars 20 years ago compared to the many I see now?
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That's not exactly a great metric. People earning half my salary drive cars costing four times as much as mine. The stats provided in the last census sketches a much better picture, which is one of an emerging black middle class that is quickly catching up with white families.
 
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