DA Wants H.I.V Testing Without Consent

Porchat: You do know Dubai does medical screening. How you ganna handle that if you go work there?
 
ghoti said:
When you go work abroad you need the TB chest Xrays. Pitbull is right, I have had to have them as well.
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Maybe you guys just looked kinda off :p

I've been to the US, UK, Germany, Netherlands, Nigeria, Tanzania. Never been asked for any medical reports or xrays.

Edit: excl the usual travel injections to high risk areas (read Africa).
 
ghoti said:
Who on earth said they would divulge your status? :confused: Like any medical record that should be private unless a court orders otherwise.
They did give me eye tests and I had fingerprints taken. Your point?

Sorry, you argument is not convincing. You have double standards.
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So what if the individual tested doesn't want to know their status? How exactly would that help?
 
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TB Xrays are a requirement for any entry into the UK that is not a visitor's visa.
 
JungleBoy said:
So what if the individual tested doesn't want to know? How exactly would this help?
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I made the point earlier. The medical staff need to know. The individual doesn't have to.
 
ghoti said:
Porchat: You do know Dubai does medical screening. How you ganna handle that if you go work there?
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My rights as recognised as a citizen of my country have no relevance when it comes to what another country does.

EDIT: Having said that you're starting to make this sound like it must apply to me personally. I know my status. I get tested regularly. I have no problem with others knowing my status. Fsck I'm borderline paranoid about HIV and my doctor keeps telling me that when I go get a test done.

I don't agree with the reckless behaviour my fellow South Africans engage in. However we live in a free society and I have no right to dictate how others must behave. Furthermore I'm not going to pretend it isn't your own damn fault when you get HIV from unprotected sex.
 
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Sinbad said:
I made the point earlier. The medical staff need to know. The individual doesn't have to.
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I also asked how would that help? Collection of statistics perhaps?
I thought the point of testing would be so that the person may get cancelling, take precautions so as not to infect others as well as getting treatment drugs. Now if they are not told their status, then the testing would have been pointless.

Also a question has to be asked...whether the campaign of voluntary testing has failed or not. If not why not reinforce that instead of calling for involuntary testing.
 
JungleBoy said:
I also asked how would that help? Collection of statistics perhaps?
I thought the point of testing would be so that the person may get cancelling, take precautions so as not infect others as well as getting treatment drugs. Now if they are not told their status, then the testing would have been pointless.

Also a question has to be asked...whether the campaign of voluntary testing has failed or not. If not why not reinforce that instead of calling for involuntary testing.
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Considering the increase in VCT in the cape with the addition of the financial incentive, I'd say the current campaign is failing.

Medics have a right to know when they are endangering their lives treating a patient.
 
Sinbad said:
Considering the increase in VCT in the cape with the addition of the financial incentive, I'd say the current campaign is failing.

Medics have a right to know when they are endangering their lives treating a patient.
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Shouldn't the medics always take the necessary precautions as a rule?
 
JungleBoy said:
Shouldn't the medics always take the necessary precautions as a rule?
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As a rule, yes, but accidents do happen and they should know the appropriate level of countermeasures to take in the event of exposure to bodily fluids.
 
Sinbad said:
Medics have a right to know when they are endangering their lives treating a patient.
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Sinbad said:
As a rule, yes, but accidents do happen and they should know the appropriate level of countermeasures to take in the event of exposure to bodily fluids.
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Medics take on the responsibility of risking their lives when they become medics. Precautions should be taken as though the person is infected anyway. There is no need to know when any one particular individual is infected.

If you get a needlestick injury and the individual you received it from won't reveal his/her status or agree to testing then you get ARVs by default. This is how it works.
 
porchrat said:
My rights as recognised as a citizen of my country have no relevance when it comes to what another country does.

EDIT: Having said that you're starting to make this sound like it must apply to me personally. I know my status. I get tested regularly. I have no problem with others knowing my status. Fsck I'm borderline paranoid about HIV and my doctor keeps telling me that when I go get a test done.

I don't agree with the reckless behaviour my fellow South Africans engage in. However we live in a free society and I have no right to dictate how others must behave. Furthermore I'm not going to pretend it isn't your own damn fault when you get HIV from unprotected sex.
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Its nothing personal porchrat, promise. Im just trying to put stuff in perspective. I honestly believe you are a bright and good person even if I completely disagree with your reasoning on this issue. If everyone was like you we would not be having this discussion, in the same way that if everyone was responsible with driving we would not need drivers licences.

Now back to the Dubai thing.... or migrating to most countries to work some kinda medical screening will take place. In most cases its compulsory. So if you are willing to do that to make money for yourself in another country, why can it not be done in your own country to save lives?

Some of us know the right thing to do, so for people like you and I, we really do not need to get these tests done. As you pointed out we know we are negative, but we are a minority (knowing our statuses).

A lot of the arguments in this thread (not yours), remind me of my wifes country. Theyre still going through the compulsory ID stage, and there are many conservatives who dont like the concept and the change, and who are down right against it. Their arguments are pretty much the same as R13`s and jungleboys as to why an ID is evil.

Apologies once again if it looked like I was making this personal, that was not my intention.
 
ghoti said:
Wow, then dunno how you were able to get around visa laws. Impressed.
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Might be a time frame issue.

I might be wrong but I think it's only for trips/working where you need to stay longer than 3 months at a time.

*Not 100% sure*

I just know that on all applications I had to have myself X-ray'd, get a certificate and take the certificate and my X-rays as hand luggage.
 
ghoti said:
Its nothing personal porchrat, promise. Im just trying to put stuff in perspective. I honestly believe you are a bright and good person even if I completely disagree with your reasoning on this issue. If everyone was like you we would not be having this discussion, in the same way that if everyone was responsible with driving we would not need drivers licences.
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Thanks for the compliment. I feel the same way about you.


Now back to the Dubai thing.... or migrating to most countries to work some kinda medical screening will take place. In most cases its compulsory. So if you are willing to do that to make money for yourself in another country, why can it not be done in your own country to save lives?
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Because it is my choice to go to that other country to work. They can offer the screening and I can decline thus killing the entire procedure. I have a choice. I either accept the conditions surrounding that potential choice or I don't.

The guy sitting in the squatter camp as a citizen of this country with on way out has no choice. This I find leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The 2 scenarios have some fundamental differences.

I'm not saying mandatory testing isn't a practical solution, it is. I'm also not saying I disagree with it, I'm actually sitting on the fence with this particular issue.


Some of us know the right thing to do, so for people like you and I, we really do not need to get these tests done. As you pointed out we know we are negative, but we are a minority (knowing our statuses).
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Unfortunately I think you are right.


A lot of the arguments in this thread (not yours), remind me of my wifes country. Theyre still going through the compulsory ID stage, and there are many conservatives who dont like the concept and the change, and who are down right against it. Their arguments are pretty much the same as R13`s and jungleboys as to why an ID is evil.
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R13 and jungleboy have a problem with IDs? You're kidding?


Apologies once again if it looked like I was making this personal, that was not my intention.
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Hey no worries I just thought you might be trying to suggest that I would want to hide my status (not saying you did, I assumed you weren't, just that the English was ambiguous) and I just wanted to clarify that that certainly isn't the case. I didn't take offence :). I think those that want to hide their status are doing themselves and our entire country a disservice.
 
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My wife is going through SA medical law atm for her medical exams. In it there is a bit on patient rights. Like the right for the the person not to be tested. She says this creates massive problems as say the doctor is "pricked" with a needle that was used on a patient. The doctor currently has no right to ask for the HIV status.. .and that doctor has to go on a serious ARV treatment (whether the patient had HIV AIDS or not). ARVs are not nice, theyre a lot like chemo.... as in they do a lot of damage to do some good.
 
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