DA's alternative budget

[Avenue]

What about the gang-torn areas? If they haven't sorted the problem out by now it's not as if seperating themselves is going to make it magically disapear.

Do you think that they will introduce the death penalty? Zille and co are against that IINM.

Unfortunately the DA has to work inside a corrupt system and so their hands are tied. When the laws protect criminals there is only so much they can do.

So what would change? The courts and justice system will be functioning properly, and they can actually work at addressing poverty, lack of skills and opportunity and lack of education that all feeds into gang related problems.

 

[JStrike]

lol didn't take long for the tired old race card to be played



meh it's still more Greece than Hong Kong.

Tim's budget plan is excellent. But that is just my opinion, and doesn't mean in reality it is any better or worse than Pravin Gordhan's will be.

 

[Fudzy]

Unfortunately the DA has to work inside a corrupt system and so their hands are tied. When the laws protect criminals there is only so much they can do.

So what would change? The courts and justice system will be functioning properly, and they can actually work at addressing poverty, lack of skills and opportunity and lack of education that all feeds into gang related problems.

Isn't that a bit of a fob off? I don't see how criminals will stop being criminals because the system has changed. The jails are only going to become more crowded (if that's possible?) Not to mention the political instability of the local folk will probably result in civil unrest.

 

[JStrike]

Unfortunately the DA has to work inside a corrupt system and so their hands are tied. When the laws protect criminals there is only so much they can do.

So what would change? The courts and justice system will be functioning properly, and they can actually work at addressing poverty, lack of skills and opportunity and lack of education that all feeds into gang related problems.

Are you seriously trying to say that all ills in SA are the ANC's fault? That it has done no good? And that if the roles were reversed, that the DA would be substantially better?
You know this with so much certainty that you are going around speaking as if it is fact

 

[Avenue]

I like how you just say things like they are facts.
"over the long term the SA economy will go to Sh## and the WC economy will grow" - suuuuuureeeeee
Because the ANC government hasn't been able to get the Gauteng economy to grow in the last 20 years.

Why don't you just come out and say it. You think the ANC can do no right and [insert predominantly white party name here] can do no wrong.
And since the ANC is predominantly black, it becomes very clear what you are saying

When the anc took over the Rand dollar exchange rate was R3 to the dollar. Its now 7.6. The hospitals, schools and municipalities were working. It was also safe to walk the streets.
I only have to open my eyes to see that we are in a downward spiral and that this downward spiral will continue.

And no, its has nothing to do with Black vs White, it has to do with corrupt vs incorrupt.
The current leaders want to line their pockets and so all the decisions they make will be based on that. ie muzzling of the press, stripping the constitutional court of its powers etc etc.

 

[Avenue]

Are you seriously trying to say that all ills in SA are the ANC's fault? That it has done no good? And that if the roles were reversed, that the DA would be substantially better?
You know this with so much certainty that you are going around speaking as if it is fact

The WC and Gauteng both implamented a billing system.
WC cost 337 million and they had it up and running in a year
Gauteng cost 1 billion about 60% over budget and after 2 years they still dont have it up and running.

So lets just say that 400 million was wasted. That is 400 million that could have been channelled to other projects.
Times this by thousands of projects and you are looking at a lot of wasted resources. Its not a question of them not doing anything, its a question of how much they could potentially be doing if they handled their resources properly.

 

[JStrike]

When the anc took over the Rand dollar exchange rate was R3 to the dollar. Its now 7.6. The hospitals, schools and municipalities were working. It was also safe to walk the streets.
I only have to open my eyes to see that we are in a downward spiral and that this downward spiral will continue.

And no, its has nothing to do with Black vs White, it has to do with corrupt vs incorrupt.
The current leaders want to line their pockets and so all the decisions they make will be based on that. ie muzzling of the press, stripping the constitutional court of its powers etc etc.

Wow. Just wow.

What on earth does the exchange rate have to do with SA??? Do you think it shows how powerful or successful an economy is? Do you think Great Britain is stronger or as powerful as the USA just beause the GBP is stronger than the dollar? Do you know that SA used to practice currency manipulation? (China still does this)

The hospitals, schools and municipalities were working. Because they only had to provide good quiality service to 5% of the frikken population!
Ditto the with crime! It's very easy to police crime when you can arrest anyone with a dark skin in a white neighbourhood.

The ANC has many flaws, and they have done many things badly. But you are not mentioning a single one of those things.
But the ANC has done many great things in the last 20 years, and done many things well.

I am white, live in the WC and am a DA member. It is "supporters" such as yourself that paint us with your own racism, bringing down the party

 

[Zyzzyva]

Sure, if you read this: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-social-welfare-state

Your article points out how good government can help business grow. I totally agree. Wooah, that dude who wrote that article is so partisan!

We have discussed this a thousand times ghoti. If you have a good government then yes, stuff is possible, very possible, the problem is that getting that good government is basically impossible unless we can separate ourselves from the masses who perpetually use their votes to retard the growth of the country decade after decade by putting incompetents into power for cultural/racist reasons(realistically this will not change). More centralised management when management are idiots is not good thing.

Governments, especially African governments, but not all governments, tend to be crap, so reducing them is not only beneficial but moral.

 

[JStrike]

The WC and Gauteng both implamented a billing system.
WC cost 337 million and they had it up and running in a year
Gauteng cost 1 billion about 60% over budget and after 2 years they still dont have it up and running.

So lets just say that 400 million was wasted. That is 400 million that could have been channelled to other projects.
Times this by thousands of projects and you are looking at a lot of wasted resources. Its not a question of them not doing anything, its a question of how much they could potentially be doing if they handled their resources properly.

At no point did I say the DA didn't do many thing better than the ANC. They have and will continue to do so. (Actually, our democratic system basically ensures this. But that is a related, but long-winded point I wont get into now)

However, trying to paint the DA as doing everything good and the ANC as doing everything bad, comes across is a very specific light...

 

[Zyzzyva]

Wow. Just wow.

What on earth does the exchange rate have to do with SA??? Do you think it shows how powerful or successful an economy is? Do you think Great Britain is stronger or as powerful as the USA just beause the GBP is stronger than the dollar? Do you know that SA used to practice currency manipulation? (China still does this)

The hospitals, schools and municipalities were working. Because they only had to provide good quiality service to 5% of the frikken population!
Ditto the with crime! It's very easy to police crime when you can arrest anyone with a dark skin in a white neighbourhood.

The ANC has many flaws, and they have done many things badly. But you are not mentioning a single one of those things.
But the ANC has done many great things in the last 20 years, and done many things well.

I am white, live in the WC and am a DA member. It is "supporters" such as yourself that paint us with your own racism, bringing down the party

Any idiot government could have achieved what they achieved. Far more is possible; not achieving more is frankly shameful.

 

[JStrike]

Any idiot government could have achieved what they achieved. Far more is possible; not achieving more is frankly shameful.

Really? Bringing 45 million into a country that was built to service 5 million? Can you give me examples of the many countries that have had to deal with this problem and done a better job than the ANC government?
Give credit where credit is due, and give criticism where it is due.

The ANC has made many horrific mistakes (and deliberate choices) that will only effect us in many years to come.
And these are real, serious things which need to be criticized, not comparing us to an imaginary old SA that only lived in the dream world
And these borderline racist attacks take away from valid criticism of the ANC government and their decisions

 

[Zyzzyva]

Really? Bringing 45 million into a country that was built to service 5 million? Can you give me examples of the many countries that have had to deal with this problem and done a better job than the ANC government?
Give credit where credit is due, and give criticism where it is due.

The ANC has made many horrific mistakes (and deliberate choices) that will only effect us in many years to come.
And these are real, serious things which need to be criticized, not comparing us to an imaginary old SA that only lived in the dream world
And these borderline racist attacks take away from valid criticism of the ANC government and their decisions

Ok, so how many areas of government are run very well?

 

[Sherbang]

The WC and Gauteng both implamented a billing system.
WC cost 337 million and they had it up and running in a year
Gauteng cost 1 billion about 60% over budget and after 2 years they still dont have it up and running.

So lets just say that 400 million was wasted. That is 400 million that could have been channelled to other projects.
Times this by thousands of projects and you are looking at a lot of wasted resources. Its not a question of them not doing anything, its a question of how much they could potentially be doing if they handled their resources properly.

Just to point out that the population of Gauteng is over double that of WC.
Don't know if that makes a difference to billing systems etc, but it is worth keeping in mind when comparing the two provinces

 

[Sherbang]

Ok, so how many areas of government are run very well?

South Africa held its first multi-racial elections in 1994, leaving the newly-elected African National Congress (ANC) government the daunting task of trying to restore order to an economy harmed by sanctions, while also integrating the previously-disadvantaged segment of the population into it. The 1994 government inherited an economy wracked by long years of internal conflict and external sanctions.

The government refrained from resorting to economic populism. Inflation was brought down, public finances were stabilised, and some foreign capital was attracted.[11] However, growth was still subpar.[11] At the start of 2000, then President Thabo Mbeki vowed to promote economic growth and foreign investment by relaxing restrictive labour laws, stepping up the pace of privatisation, and cutting unneeded governmental spending. His policies face strong opposition from organised labour. From 2004 onward economic growth picked up significantly; both employment and capital formation increased.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_South_Africa

 

[JStrike]

Ok, so how many areas of government are run very well?

We were close to cyclical debt (Think Greece) in 1994. We are out of that now.
They managed to pull off the worlds largest free housing scheme (Not without it's own set of problems, but on the whole, very impressive)
They managed to keep the economy growing, despite taking on 45 million extra people (Who are largely unemployable)
etc etc
Read up on SA yourself instead of just believing hearsay

But either you are trolling me, or you actually believe the racist nonsense like Ava, which is deeply disturbing

 

[Avenue]

Wow. Just wow.

The hospitals, schools and municipalities were working. Because they only had to provide good quiality service to 5% of the frikken population!
Ditto the with crime! It's very easy to police crime when you can arrest anyone with a dark skin in a white neighbourhood.

no, the hospitals schools etc aren't functioning because they have put incompetent people in charge.
Let me give you an example- about 5 years ago the government came to every school and installed a computer with an iburst modem, at a cost of millions. Their intension was to turn schools into paypoints for vehicle licensing etc. Of course they never thought it through and so 3 years later those computers were collecting dust and they were still paying a subscription on all those modems. Im not sure if they ever stopped paying.

A teacher we know got a medical discharge from work. She wasn't at the school for over 6 years and she got the best performance bonus some 6 years later.

Things like this are happening daily. The system is in shambles.

hospitals- when last did you go to a government hospital- the nurses dont give a cr@p.

Lets look at crime- Jackie selebi..... need I say more.

Yes, they had less people to police, but you couldn't bribe your way out of court or out of a traffic fine.

The ANC has many flaws, and they have done many things badly. But you are not mentioning a single one of those things.
But the ANC has done many great things in the last 20 years, and done many things well.

so what exactly are those things that a more competent government couldn't have done better.

I am white, live in the WC and am a DA member. It is "supporters" such as yourself that paint us with your own racism, bringing down the party

I am yet to see a single racist comment or conclusion.

 

[JStrike]

no, the hospitals schools etc aren't functioning because they have put incompetent people in charge.
Let me give you an example- about 5 years ago the government came to every school and installed a computer with an iburst modem, at a cost of millions. Their intension was to turn schools into paypoints for vehicle licensing etc. Of course they never thought it through and so 3 years later those computers were collecting dust and they were still paying a subscription on all those modems. Im not sure if they ever stopped paying.

A teacher we know got a medical discharge from work. She wasn't at the school for over 6 years and she got the best performance bonus some 6 years later.

Things like this are happening daily. The system is in shambles.

hospitals- when last did you go to a government hospital- the nurses dont give a cr@p.

Lets look at crime- Jackie selebi..... need I say more.

Yes, they had less people to police, but you couldn't bribe your way out of court or out of a traffic fine.



so what exactly are those things that a more competent government couldn't have done better.



I am yet to see a single racist comment or conclusion.

You cannot use a couple of examples and then apply it to an entire set. It is a logical fallacy.

I have explained to you the challenges associated with thing like healthcare, roads etc. Yes, there might be corruption, and wrong people in wrong jobs, and they might have contributed to the state of certain facilities, departments, etc
That is however *not* the reason why our hospitals are not as good as they were, or our roads, crime etc (It explains partly why they are not as good as they *could* be. However, economic policy is a greater explanation)

And if you want to keep sprouting your racist comments, please direct them in support of the FF+ or something and leave the DA out of it.

 

[Voicy]

It would be quite funny if the WC actually did segregate. Reason being, South Africa would have to change its name, seeing as it's no longer the Southern most country in Africa.

 

[ToxicBunny]

It would be quite funny if the WC actually did segregate. Reason being, South Africa would have to change its name, seeing as it's no longer the Southern most country in Africa.

Ahhhh now someone starts talking sense

 

[JStrike]

It would be quite funny if the WC actually did segregate. Reason being, South Africa would have to change its name, seeing as it's no longer the Southern most country in Africa.

hahahaha