data usage policy on RAIN

[Luke7777]

Then your mobile network should be not offering it.

 

[Swa]

It's crap. Unlimited is unlimited whether it's mobile or not. People obviously don't know how many TBs people are pulling on fibre. This is the same crap Mweb tried to pull when people hit too many GBs claiming they were misusing the service. But in fact they were not breaking any conditions and Mweb were looking only at usage amount but claiming they weren't. Don't advertise a service as uncapped or unlimited when in fact it is not, simple as that.

 

[NeonNinja]

It's crap. Unlimited is unlimited whether it's mobile or not. People obviously don't know how many TBs people are pulling on fibre. This is the same crap Mweb tried to pull when people hit too many GBs claiming they were misusing the service. But in fact they were not breaking any conditions and Mweb were looking only at usage amount but claiming they weren't. Don't advertise a service as uncapped or unlimited when in fact it is not, simple as that.

So you're one of the blokes who don't moan getting 2Mbps instead of 20Mbps.

Cant compare fibre and mobile broadband.

 

[backstreetboy]

Then your mobile network should be not offering it.

Or OP and the others doing it should stop trying to get away with murder. I hope Rain bans them from the network.

 

[Azg]

For a view of the most likely outcome of this "uncapped" LTE - look at Telkom's uncapped LTE, which was initially uncapped. Once people starting downloading 1TB and above strict fair usage policies were implemented:
"Standard Fair Usage Policy applies across the Telkom SmartBroadband Wireless Uncapped All Hours and Business Hours products. On the first of each month, customers will receive 150GB of data that allows for an up to 10Mbps speed. Once the 150GB is depleted, then an additional 50GB of data is provided at an up to 4Mbps speed."

 

[Swa]

So you're one of the blokes who don't moan getting 2Mbps instead of 20Mbps.

Cant compare fibre and mobile broadband.

I'm one of the okes who for decades have said how you can't sell a speed based service based on usage. Either sell usage or speed. I have no problem with a 1Mbps, 2Mbps etc service that's uncapped. But they don't want this, they want to sell the concept of "air fibre" and then when it doesn't quite work so well when people use it naturally they blame the people instead of their marketing.

 

[cavedog]

So let's take a look at what spectrum Rain holds and rolls out.

20MHz in Band 38/41
10MHz in Band 3 ( this is technically 20MHz but 10MHz is used for upload hence the higher upload speed on band 3)

So now let's that a look at the theoretical max speeds these resources can provide. These are theoretical speeds and it varies. Real world speeds are usually much less.

Now this is the only graph I could find and it has 2x2 mimo on it. Take now that even though Rain uses 4x4 mostly when a router is supported it doesn't mean that the speeds would be double that of 2x2 mimo.

The max peak on band 41 with 20MHz spectrum in a 4x4 mimo configuration is about 220Mbps. The max speed on band 3 in a 4x4 mimo configuration is about 100Mbps.

This is the actual max a tower can go from Rain given their spectrum allocations. It might vary a bit but we can say the tower max is probably ~320Mbps

Let's forget about data usage completely and just talk about speed. IF 6 rain simcards consistently use 50Mbps then that leaves about 20Mbps left on the tower. Now remember Vodacom users are also using Rains towers and Fixed LTE users are also using the same tower.

Now is using over 1TB on a tower fair? Not at all. It's not about the data usage it's about the constant speed you are downloading causing everyone else on the tower to get slow speeds. It's not fair at all. Radio frequency is a finite resource and the bandwidth on a tower is shared. With R250 for unlimited off peak I'm pretty sure there are waaaaay more users per tower than you think and when you include fixed lte and vodacom customers roaming on the tower too then you quickly realize 320Mbps is NOTHING and the users need to play fair.

There is a reason why MTN and Vodacom has such high speeds on their network. They are limiting the speedsters with high cost of data. That means the network is always under utilized and 1 user running a speedtest can get very high speeds.

 

[NeonNinja]

 

[Dretastic06]

Hi guys

Anyone else got this message from Rain

High Data Usage.

Hi, we've noticed that you’ve used more than 1TB of data on your rain SIM (XXXXXXXXXXX).
This is a friendly reminder that rain is strictly for bona fide mobile use only. Please refer to the terms and conditions on the rain website regarding our data usage policy.
Thanks,

rain

this is the first time I am getting it.

This is crazy man 1TB and then soon they will have a FUP for people abusing the system.

 

[Luke7777]

Or OP and the others doing it should stop trying to get away with murder. I hope Rain bans them from the network.

Not debating the wrongs or rights . If the provider advertises unlimited, then it's unlimited. If the provider feels it's killing the network, then the provider needs to apply a FUP upfront. Nothing wrong with having a FUP in place... then the 1TB guy will know why he's getting that email

Easy....

 

[Kosmik]

I just hope that modern FUPS take streaming into account, or there is maybe an agreement between them and the stream provders.

The oldies on here will remember the days pre-fups where the isps blankly said that during uncapped periods, the bandwidth was shared by whomever could use it. Thinking of the old access 512k uncapped where after hours was line speed.

 

[phly]

I reckon the "fairness" of data usage has been debated countless times in threads all over the forum. My 2cents is, even though they market it as uncapped does not mean that one has to utilize it to the extent it affects everyone else and limited scarce resources/spectrum can only stretch so much. Yes one can test and get great speeds and upon getting the sim, get all excited and use more than average due to the new found freedom.

But when you start to think even for uncapped fibre there is a limit in speed which rakes up depending on how much speed you can pay for, one quickly realizes how fortunate we are on LTE without the limits on line speeds like on fibre. I get much higher speeds on LTE than friends on uncapped fibre.

judging by the looks of things, the network will just blanket roll out a FUP that affects everyone due to the very few that are not exactly abusing but "overutilizing" the network with limited resources to the detriment of others. I just hope they "throttle" the abusers that pass a certain threshold of their choosing and not touch/affect us who try to use it within reason.

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

1TB FUP?

this is new, but even if I went nuts torrenting like a mad person and streaming half the net, I only managed to hit 400-500 GB,

so maybe its quite difficult in normal usage to hit that kind of figure? maybe that's what the warning is referring to?

OP, keep going, what happens next? shaping/throttling to 56K or something funny?

 

[newby_investor]

Not debating the wrongs or rights . If the provider advertises unlimited, then it's unlimited. If the provider feels it's killing the network, then the provider needs to apply a FUP upfront. Nothing wrong with having a FUP in place... then the 1TB guy will know why he's getting that email

Easy....

Yeah but unlimited always comes with a catch. If the local pizzeria advertises an all-you-can-eat night for R200, then sure the pizza is "unlimited" but it's generally understood that you don't attach a conveyer belt to your throat and divert the pizza to your entire extended family who are just outside.

Rain Mobile is specifically advertised as for mobile connections, so folks who want to use YouTube on the go, or Spotify, or whatever. If you restrict yourself to that kind of use-case, then Rain probably has more than enough capability not to have to impose any limits on their subscribers, because just like most people don't have the capacity to eat the pizza place into bankruptcy by themselves, most mobile users (even heavy ones) won't get through nearly 1TB of data in a month.

Torrents, x-box downloads, whatever other definitely-not-mobile use-case you may have isn't within the spirit of the offering, IMO. Rain have been good enough so far that they're not blocking certain ports or restricting use to cellphones and not "fixed LTE" modems, but if some few get too happy with their hospitality they might curtail it somewhat.

 

[Geselskap]

Is there currently any true uncapped mobile service, with no FUP? And how much does it cost? How long has it been available?

 

[phly]

Yeah but unlimited always comes with a catch. If the local pizzeria advertises an all-you-can-eat night for R200, then sure the pizza is "unlimited" but it's generally understood that you don't attach a conveyer belt to your throat and divert the pizza to your entire extended family who are just outside.

Rain Mobile is specifically advertised as for mobile connections, so folks who want to use YouTube on the go, or Spotify, or whatever. If you restrict yourself to that kind of use-case, then Rain probably has more than enough capability not to have to impose any limits on their subscribers, because just like most people don't have the capacity to eat the pizza place into bankruptcy by themselves, most mobile users (even heavy ones) won't get through nearly 1TB of data in a month.

Torrents, x-box downloads, whatever other definitely-not-mobile use-case you may have isn't within the spirit of the offering, IMO. Rain have been good enough so far that they're not blocking certain ports or restricting use to cellphones and not "fixed LTE" modems, but if some few get too happy with their hospitality they might curtail it somewhat.

Had even thought of the infamous car analogy. Just because a car can do 400 max does not mean you must drive at 400 all day everyday as that - seemingly cool it may be/feel - endangers the lives of everyone around. So basically that excessive enjoyment theoretically shortens the life span and longevity of those around.

 

[newby_investor]

Is there currently any true uncapped mobile service, with no FUP? And how much does it cost? How long has it been available?

Not AFAIK. The limited spectrum problem pointed out in this thread is likely the cause for that. When 5G becomes more common this might be more freely available but then our appetites will get heavier as well, so who knows.

Uncapped fibre is the only truly uncapped thing you're likely to see in the medium-term future.

 

[Luke7777]

As I said , I'm not debating the wrong or right here. The pizza place knows that they are going to run into a locust or 2 , but they know the majority of people will not even get close to that R200. Capital Craft advertises bottomless ribs on Mondays for R180... so you'll get get your group of students that will walk out of there... 34KG later, but again , it's covered by the majority of us not getting close to it. However, if the guys taking advantage of these offers are slowing down the kitchen in such a way that the service to the rest of the customers gets bad, then it's up to the owners to step in and get delivery back into balance, maybe by letting the gluttons wait a little bit longer for their next portion, without affecting the rest of the clients.

As Kosmik has said, streaming these days takes up a lot of a bandwidth and the FUPs needs to adapt along with it. Is 1TB excessive ? Maybe. Not sure what I'll get if I take my MiFi (with the rain sim) to the office everyday and stream Supersport in HD the whole day. That's mobile use , or isn't it ?

Bottom line , you shouldn't have offers like these without some FUP in place. Then you have the ability to restrict the offending parties.

 

[Swa]

So let's take a look at what spectrum Rain holds and rolls out.

20MHz in Band 38/41
10MHz in Band 3 ( this is technically 20MHz but 10MHz is used for upload hence the higher upload speed on band 3)

So now let's that a look at the theoretical max speeds these resources can provide. These are theoretical speeds and it varies. Real world speeds are usually much less.

Now this is the only graph I could find and it has 2x2 mimo on it. Take now that even though Rain uses 4x4 mostly when a router is supported it doesn't mean that the speeds would be double that of 2x2 mimo.

The max peak on band 41 with 20MHz spectrum in a 4x4 mimo configuration is about 220Mbps. The max speed on band 3 in a 4x4 mimo configuration is about 100Mbps.

This is the actual max a tower can go from Rain given their spectrum allocations. It might vary a bit but we can say the tower max is probably ~320Mbps

Let's forget about data usage completely and just talk about speed. IF 6 rain simcards consistently use 50Mbps then that leaves about 20Mbps left on the tower. Now remember Vodacom users are also using Rains towers and Fixed LTE users are also using the same tower.

Now is using over 1TB on a tower fair? Not at all. It's not about the data usage it's about the constant speed you are downloading causing everyone else on the tower to get slow speeds. It's not fair at all. Radio frequency is a finite resource and the bandwidth on a tower is shared. With R250 for unlimited off peak I'm pretty sure there are waaaaay more users per tower than you think and when you include fixed lte and vodacom customers roaming on the tower too then you quickly realize 320Mbps is NOTHING and the users need to play fair.

There is a reason why MTN and Vodacom has such high speeds on their network. They are limiting the speedsters with high cost of data. That means the network is always under utilized and 1 user running a speedtest can get very high speeds.

Have you done the math? 1TB would be 0.40Mbps average during a month. That means even at its worst a single tower can handle 370 users each doing 1TB or 370TB in a month. Most areas have more than one tower. Them letting Vodacom use their spectrum in some shady deal isn't my problem. Now I'm not debating if it's right or wrong to use so much but if it's claimed to be uncapped then it should be uncapped. If you want it to have an FUP then apply a cap. But that's actually a disadvantage because the moment you advertise a number people see it as a target to achieve. So people who do 100GB on streaming, Steam and the occasional download will now try to use their whole allocation of 1TB or see it as not getting their full money's worth.

Now I do think our networks should get with the times. 1TB is hardly an achievement any more. And where does it say what type of usage is permitted and what isn't? Rain is making it purely by how much you use and not how you use it. I don't have a problem with that if it's stated upfront but even then the purpose of an FUP is to enforce fair usage and not strict limits. Therefor the uncapped mobile offerings that used to exist would take into account how much you use over a period. So even if you did use 2GB this month on an update it's not an issue if your normal usage is like 500MB. It's only in SA that FUPs are seen as fixed cap targets to enforce. This needs to change.

 

[GoB]

My daughter uses 200GB + on youtube/netflix on her tablet...

480p toy reviews / fake drama enactments is fine.