Dear White People

The damage caused through Apartheid will probably not be fixed in a few decades. Like Mandela said once, it might take 50 yrs at least.

The core root of problems is education. That's been messed up from the start of democracy and its current state is a joke to say the least.
Frankly I think it's too late to fix.
 
Albereth said:
Questions are a fail. How is anyone supposed to answer any of the 'how many' questions honestly and/or with self awareness? I'd say try again but that sounds like a recipe for an OD.
Click to expand...

Clearly your level of comprehension is on a technical level. So let me pose the questions specifically for YOU so you can perhaps grasp the point that was trying to be made, not the how questions were phrased. Or maybe the best way to avoid such questions was by deflecting them?

1. Do YOU REALLY understand what actually happened in South Africa? Not what YOU read in some book, but actually grasp what happened?

2. Do YOU understand the concept of cultural assimilation and how it was applied to South Africa?

3. Have YOU ever sympathized with anyone in South Africa's lower class (or any class lower than you), be it a poor coloured/black/indian/white person, or do matters outside your boom gate (or where ever you reside) don't concern you? (If YOU) Hired a maid, it doesn't count as "sympathizing". You needed a service, they provided you with one!

4. Have YOU ever visited ANY South African historical monuments (on your own accord and free will, not a mandatory bloody school trip)? From your prior answer, have YOU visited any Apartheid museum, or any monument that aims to make people aware of the realities of Apartheid?

Now did I OD, or is it still hard to comprehend the point that is trying to be made, without you derailing the point? If you need the questions asked on an even more specific level you can ask away and I will do so gladly:).
 
Last edited:
Ekstasis said:
The damage caused through Apartheid will probably not be fixed in a few decades. Like Mandela said once, it might take 50 yrs at least.

The core root of problems is education. That's been messed up from the start of democracy and its current state is a joke to say the least.
Frankly I think it's too late to fix.
Click to expand...

So the 18 year education problems may be too late to fix but the scars of apartheid will heal in a few decades, lol.
 
daveza said:
I was around when we were still a union so yes, I really understand.



She did not write it as an opinion - and even if she had then we are entitled to challenge her opinion.

When you write rubbish like ' the land you white people stole ' then that cannot go unanswered as it is perhaps factually correct but ignores the fact that it was 'stolen' from those who themselves had stolen it from others long before us.

Yet conveniently she chooses not to include that in her 'opinion'.
Click to expand...

...and if you had read "Whatever this lady wrote is her opinion, if you do not agree with it it's fine, if you agree with it, fine again." you will realize you are given the right to have your opinion on the piece. My problem is when your opinion is drabble just because it isn't a convenient enough truth to make you feel better about your opinions or beliefs.

If you going to use the FF+ "you stole it first so we can steal it after" reasoning I honestly can't say anything more to you cos clearly you have a specific belief that you live in a country where the minority are actually more powerful financially than everyone else combined, and that is perfectly fine with you, as long as you didn't commit said crimes and someone else commited those same crimes before "them". I never get into arguments on belief as it's what you believe in and so be it:)
 
If you going to use the FF+ "you stole it first so we can steal it after" reasoning
Click to expand...

It's got nothing to do with FF+ reasoning - it's just history.

If you steal something and have it stolen from you in turn are you going to report the theft ?
 
R13... said:
Nothing to do with right or wrong just how you logically arrive at such obviously conflicting conclusions. How do you reconcile the two?
Click to expand...
Not as black and white as you make my statement out to be. Who said our problems will all be fixed? I made reference to something mr. Mandela once said. Some issues might be sorted out others may not.
 
Ekstasis said:
The damage caused through Apartheid will probably not be fixed in a few decades. Like Mandela said once, it might take 50 yrs at least.

The core root of problems is education. That's been messed up from the start of democracy and its current state is a joke to say the least.
Frankly I think it's too late to fix.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the ANC has laid some damp wall and rot foundation as is and regardless of how much people want to blame the party entirely, what else are people doing within themselves to improve said country, paying taxes?
 
purpleonlineadmin said:
Agreed, the ANC has laid some damp wall and rot foundation as is and regardless of how much people want to blame the party entirely, what else are people doing within themselves to improve said country, paying taxes?
Click to expand...

the mere fact that they are working and earning a living means that they are not being dependent on government.
 
daveza said:
It's got nothing to do with FF+ reasoning - it's just history.

If you steal something and have it stolen from you in turn are you going to report the theft ?
Click to expand...

Which history? Did the Khoi and San record where their settlements were before the Bantu's came down? Unless I missed a history lesson you attended. Even the said Bantu settlers conquered within their various clans, meaning what you consider as just "black" people who came from North were actually various clans which today are broken down into ethnic groups, who "stole" within themselves therefore white settlers had a right to "steal" from because they knew?

From the recorded history I know, The original Khoi and San people were originially settled in what is now the Northern Cape, part of Eastern and Western Cape, part of Botswana, part of Namibia all the way to parts of Southern Angola. That is the only recorded "history" I know. The Niger-Congo speakers (or what you probably refer to Bantu blacks today) are assumed to have settled from central Africa to Southern Africa, and even thse "blacks" are varying clans (Which in South Africa are Tswana's, Sotho's (Northern and Southern) being part of similar clans, Zulu's, Xhosa's, Swati's, Ndebele's being part of another group, Venda's, Tsonga's etc being another group, all these AGAIN broken into other sub clans). Now who within those clans stole from the Khoi and "deserved" to have their land stolen from themselves? Tswana clans? Seeing they settled in parts of where original Khoi and San are recorded to have settled prior? Who is the thief that stole land before and who deserved to have their land stolen by another?

And if this is the end of and be all reasoning, and this logic, from what I know about Khoi & San settelements, Europeans had no right to then take Zulu, Xhosa, Swati, Venda, Tsonga, Shona, Sotho land as from this "theft" deduction, only Tswana's are guilty of "stealing" land from the Khoi. From what I recall, even the Khoi and San today are not assimilated into Tswana clans, so what exactly did Bantu blacks steal and from whom?
 
Last edited:
So which 'black' groups were living between the Western Cape and the Fish river ?

Which 'black' groups were living in the Karoo ?

And who said anything about 'deserved to have their land stolen' ?

The land was conquered as lands have been conquered for millenia.
 
Last edited:
Recorded history Khoi-San groups lived in those aforementioned areas, and when settlers came in, was mostly Khoi-San and Tswana sub clans (i.e. within Tswana's it could be any of these sub clans you want to aim that theft comment to.) From my history Khoi-San were never conquered or assimilated into other Bantu clans, so I really do not know where these "theft" of land really comes from!
 
And the land was conquered did happen, and the reason why South Africa is in this crappy situation is the legacy of conquering that not only destroyed 1 or 2 small clans, but literally wiped out and assimilated those cultures. Europeans conquering ANY continent has seen a wipe out of said natives, and naturally made them the majority, except in South Africa, where even when they were a minority, still ruled like a majority, which is the legacy you still see today is it not? Now who are the Bantu people who "stole" land from "prior" Southern African settlers?

Anyways enough history lesson, the point made is the reason legacies like Apartheid happened is because the foundations of prior settlers was laid, and the foundation of apartheid still stands till today, which many people are happy to ignore because it doesn't matter now, "we a rainbow nation", and the land "was stolen anyways".
 
Last edited:
Come on, there were vast areas of uninhabited land in Southern Africa just as there were uninhabited areas in the Americas and Australasia.

Or did the blacks somehow lay claim to the entire Southern Africa by virtue of physically occupying a small portion thereof.

Land was conquered by the British, the boers, and the Zulu in particularly gained new areas of land through conquer.

Perhaps when 'blacks' do it it's called conquering but it's theft when done by whites ?

Regardless, it's one of the most pointless justifications - 'we were here first'.

There are few places on the planet if any where there are those who occupy land that has never been ' owned' by others.

There were certainly no 'blacks' in the Western Cape when the Europeans arrived so how was it stolen from them ?
 
Last edited:
Black people should not involve themselves in this thread. This whole topic emanates from a white lady who wrote something that pissed off white people and daveza opened this thread so that whites can vent their anger. Black people should not tangle themselves in this racial discussion. This is whitemans problem, blacks must just observe. From a white persons frame of reference everything is falling apart but Einstein tells us that it's all relative.
 
Black people should not involve themselves in this thread. This whole topic emanates from a white lady who wrote something that pissed off white people.
Click to expand...

Seriously ?

So when a black person writes something inflammatory about blacks, Mamphela Ramphele or Moeletsi Mbeki for example, whites may not contribute to the discussion ?
 
"Come on, there were vast areas of uninhabited land in Southern Africa just as there were uninhabited areas in the Americas and Australasia."

Exactly, and if you knew how Bantu clans are dispersed within South Africa you would know this:

Venda, Shona, Shangaan/Tsonga clans settled on the upper North of Southern Africa, this means they settled within parts of modern Northern South Africa and parts of Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, Botswana etc.

Tswana, S. Sotho and N. Sotho clans settled into whats the North West and Western part of Southern Africa, as well as Western Drakensberg areas (LeSOTHO).

Zulu, Xhosa, Ndebele, Swati etc clans settled into whats the Eastern coast of Southern Africa, which is From Mozambique, all the way to what's Eastern Cape today.

Khoi & San clans setteled prior to Bantu (above mentioned clans) in areas I mentioned earlier.

All these clans have sub clans and this land they settled on became theirs (assuming at the time it was uninhabited) and was taken from them, regardless of how you want to technically define it in todays social definitions.

The biggest issue "blacks" have with apartheid is not being conquered, that happened. Zulu's wanted to conquer some Sotho clans, etc. It's how it systematically destroyed natives in South Africa, and it's roots were established by prior settlers (I love history so even I know white settlers loved themselves some Sara Baartman-esque nookie while away from the wives, so race wasn't such a train smash), and how those roots remain till today. Once the Brits and Dutch settlers started discovering minerals in said prior settled lands, how they made sure they created laws to take land to benefit only a specific race (South Africa Act of 1910, the Native Land Act of 1913, Natives in Urban Areas Bill of 1918, Urban Areas Act of 1923, the Colours Bar Act of 1926, Asiatic Registration Act of 1906 and so on... you'll read those in your own time).

Funny enough the only clan to outsmart one of these acts, the Ba***eng ba bakwena (The Royal Ba***eng as you know them) are the only South African natives to still hold some financial power in their own areas (Rustenburg, Phokeng and surrounding areas), and have prospered immensely, and it's widely recorded they lived on that land hundreds of years before these acts that diluted native power come into effect. So whilst you might want to justify "unoccupied land" and "it wasn't those blacks to begin with" or other technical mumbo jumbo just because it wasn't written on some piece of paper, visit the Ba***eng and read on how they were able to keep their land, and are one, if not, the richest bantu clan in South Africa today! This same benefit which was stripped from other clans, especially the Khoi-San. You don't see a Khoi name at the De Beers headquarters. That is why I posed questions that asked people about if they actually have gone out of their way to REALLY LEARN about natives in South Africa and stop painting blacks as blacks when they consist of so much more!

Read King Leopold's Ghost if you think the issue is about South African blacks have with South African White's only. Once a minority starts flexing their muscles to the majority, and still do so with the feeling that this is a perfectly setup scenario, that is when I get highly pissed off with comments that claim "blacks" stole land prior to it being conquered by whites, and blacks should just shutup cos the country is now rainbow and happier.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X