Depression.

RiaX said:
yes they not my mistake. They an in between.

They can use a benzo for insomnia depends on the insomnia itself. If falling asleep is the trouble then they work well if maintaining the sleep is the problem then they wont work well unless you get the long acting like serepax. Even then the benzos lose the efficacy due to tolerance thus they arent useful in long term management.

Your hypnotics are far superior in this regard
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Yup that is why you start off with dorminoct's lowest potency, then 6 months later go up but you are correct they do not work after awhile but mostly that means you are abusing them like i did with dormicans. I struggle to sleep so dormicans are better for falling asleep but not worth the withdrawal the next day. Dominoct makes you tired and i don't think you build a tolerance fast. I build a tolerance to dormicans quickly. Benzo's are the best for sleep, addictive but they work. Hypnotics will wake you after 3 hours and the sleep isn't nice. Tried them and they suck.

Swa does have a point riax, we live in a world where drugs are our first choice, we don't look at our diet and ensure we are getting that right. We just go get drugs for all our problems. I am not saying there is no chemical imbalance but tell me they don't know what chemical is the problem do they? can they measure the chemicals in your brain and identify what is the problem? Nope so basically they have no idea how their drugs work. They do work for some but swa is not a total fool to believe certain elements are missing and that is why we have issues. We go straight for drugs.
 
killadoob said:
Swa does have a point riax, we live in a world where drugs are our first choice, we don't look at our diet and ensure we are getting that right. We just go get drugs for all our problems. I am not saying there is no chemical imbalance but tell me they don't know what chemical is the problem do they? can they measure the chemicals in your brain and identify what is the problem? Nope so basically they have no idea how their drugs work. They do work for some but swa is not a total fool to believe certain elements are missing and that is why we have issues. We go straight for drugs.
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Oh no that part of what he is saying is absolutely correct. If you maintained your health properly from the get go you wouldnt encounter the issues you do however that said sometimes its genetics and no matter what you eat its not going to change. Finally ONCE the issue has come especially in the case of depression supplementing vitamins are minerals are not going to resolve it. Think of vitamin C and zinc which are important for immunomodulation. Without them you would get sick often however boosting the intake when you have flu does nothing.

It is noted that a healthy balance diet is the corner stone for health again you need to understand that depression is not like scurvy.

Also hypnotics are variable, what holds for you does not hold for the next patient thats why practitioners titrate the dose until they achieve control. They can measure the chemicals in the brain you do a spinal tap and you run HPLC (a type of LCMS) and you can detect these compounds in the brain. hell you can even use a fMRI

Dont misunderstand the idea of "theory" the brain is complex we havent unlocked all its secrets hence we cannot cure certain diseases. There is actually a proper cure for depression its experimental and too expensive so maybe 20 to 40 years you might see it

What medicine cant cure we control with chronic treatment. This conspiracy nonsense must stop obviously its a business but a company will make so much more money with a cure than control. You blast away your competitors AND you monopolize the market and you can charge R70 000 for a week supply and no one can say a thing
 
Dude i am on welbutrin, lamictin and 10mg urbanol 3 times a day. I tried the positive energy(helped but not enough) and it is helping me. I said try positive energy and if that doesn't work get meds, so please don't go on about the positive energy thing i suggested people try first. I clearly stated even if you are on meds the positivity will help. Positivity never kept away the sad days i felt for no reason. DJ told me he was on lamictin and seruel and the mood stabilizer has worked wonders. I know i am going to get hooked badly on the urbanol though.

Riax do you agree that most anti depressants, the companies cannot tell you what exactly happens because they don't know, so while i seem to be knocking them, they do work for some people and you may have to try several. I know they say it helps this and that but if they don't know what the imbalance is it's a guessing game or am i mistaken? Surely a mood stabilizer would be ideal to go along with anti depressants rather than just using the anti depressant but i guess that is also a guessing game.
 
RiaX said:
Oh no that part of what he is saying is absolutely correct. If you maintained your health properly from the get go you wouldnt encounter the issues you do however that said sometimes its genetics and no matter what you eat its not going to change. Finally ONCE the issue has come especially in the case of depression supplementing vitamins are minerals are not going to resolve it. Think of vitamin C and zinc which are important for immunomodulation. Without them you would get sick often however boosting the intake when you have flu does nothing.

It is noted that a healthy balance diet is the corner stone for health again you need to understand that depression is not like scurvy.

...

What medicine cant cure we control with chronic treatment. This conspiracy nonsense must stop obviously its a business but a company will make so much more money with a cure than control. You blast away your competitors AND you monopolize the market and you can charge R70 000 for a week supply and no one can say a thing
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I don't know why you have to be like this and always resort to straw men and irrelevancies. You are the first one to bring up conspiracy here. We all know it's not in the financial interest of Big Pharma (if we are allowed to use that word) to find a non-patentable cure for any disease. It's not a matter of conspiracy but simply common sense to not slaughter the goose that lays the golden eggs and to pursue research that will lead to a return on investment. R70 000 for a week supply of magnesium? lol They can't charge more than R170 a month and that's without holding a monopoly.

That and the Vitamin D has done a whole lot more for me than the anti-depressants did for the other guys here. Then the research by qualified researchers makes me trust them and the supplement makers more than the pharmaceutical company that's selling the iatrogenic drugs that caused the problem in the first place. True the part about not knowing exactly what causes depression but that doesn't invalidate research that shows what is effective and is irrelevant. Treatment resistant is not a clinical diagnosis. lol. It's called treatment resistant only because all tried treatments have failed and not because it's untreatable. It will be untreatable if the correct nutrients are not present as in nearly everybody. Step out of your textbooks for a second.

As for your other little bit, you are welcome to start a separate thread with your evidence and have it all debunked. Again.
 
killadoob said:
Dude i am on welbutrin, lamictin and 10mg urbanol 3 times a day. I tried the positive energy(helped but not enough) and it is helping me. I said try positive energy and if that doesn't work get meds, so please don't go on about the positive energy thing i suggested people try first. I clearly stated even if you are on meds the positivity will help. Positivity never kept away the sad days i felt for no reason. DJ told me he was on lamictin and seruel and the mood stabilizer has worked wonders. I know i am going to get hooked badly on the urbanol though.

Riax do you agree that most anti depressants, the companies cannot tell you what exactly happens because they don't know, so while i seem to be knocking them, they do work for some people and you may have to try several. I know they say it helps this and that but if they don't know what the imbalance is it's a guessing game or am i mistaken? Surely a mood stabilizer would be ideal to go along with anti depressants rather than just using the anti depressant but i guess that is also a guessing game.
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nonsense. They can tell you exactly how it works. Its not the fault of the drugs if you juggling them around its the fault of your Drs for being unable to pick the right one

@ Swa

there is no big pharma. They dont produce as much new drugs because the s**t is hard. Astra zenica had to shut down its CNS R&D division because it couldnt keep up with the cost. They fired 2300 scientists. You can say they dont want to take a corporate pay cut yeah but there is no big pharma thats just idiotic. Big pharma is up there with god and the boogie man and so on

If its so easy Swa why arent you a millionaire ?
 
Jhbgirl said:
Is adco-alzam 1mg very addictive?
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Urk, Alzam is scary stuff. I have a colleague that is completely hooked on it, she cant sleep at all without it and sometimes needs 2 of the 1mg tabs just to fall asleep.
 
I sometimes finish mine halfway through the month and haven't had any withdrawal issues yet.
 
@RiaX: I'm not gonna argue with you on this. We all know the truth but considering what you do you can't admit that. They don't know how the brain works but can tell exactly how their drugs work? lol I'm with killa on this one.

@Jhbgirl: If you feel like giving up, there are other options besides pharmaceuticals.
 
Vitamin D ... magnesium ...

Haven't found anything else that helps much. Haven't tried the expensive stuff like tryptophan+B6, SAMe, and St. John's Wort yet but should be careful when taking these with anti-depressants.
 
RiaX said:
sigh I totally dont understand you. You say things with so much concrete evidence like evolution is rubbish.
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Some people are best added to your ignore list as they will just end up giving you an aneurysm. You get to the point where you realise you are just wasting your time talking to them. Don't do this to yourself.
 
Swa said:
@Jhbgirl: If you feel like giving up, there are other options besides pharmaceuticals.
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The only option someone who has admitted to feeling suicidal should be considering, is a visit to their doctor. It's irresponsible to suggest vitamin D and magnesium in those circumstances.
 
killadoob said:
How can they tell exactly what i need riax? I thought it was a process of trial and error?

I really honestly cannot believe in most cases you are given a drug based on knowing what chemical you lack.

Riax i respect your opinion but read this http://www.cchrint.org/2010/02/05/w...tests-exist-to-prove-if-antidepressants-work/
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Dude do you really think a psychiatrist doesnt know what happening ? Ive spoken to trainee psychs and newly qualified psychs and even profs of psych. Their level of understanding is insane (excuse the pun). Plus its their experience that can tell.

Its no different than how they select an antibiotic. Its more complex than you think they make it look simple
 
D3nz said:
The only option someone who has admitted to feeling suicidal should be considering, is a visit to their doctor. It's irresponsible to suggest vitamin D and magnesium in those circumstances.
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Not to the person with suicidal ideation.
Psychiatric care and psychological therapy are for those who can afford it.
Someone who is unemployed and living below the breadline do not have those luxuries.
Visiting a psychologists can cost anything from ZAR600.
Visiting a psychiatrist: >ZAR900
 
rubytox said:
Not to the person with suicidal ideation.
Psychiatric care and psychological therapy are for those who can afford it.
Someone who is unemployed and living below the breadline do not have those luxuries.
Visiting a psychologists can cost anything from ZAR600.
Visiting a psychiatrist: >ZAR900
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Which is why I said doctor. It's true, not everyone can afford a mental health professional. A visit to your local Prime Cure Clinic should set you back under R300 and the doctor should be able to tell whether you need medication, therapy or need to be hospitalised for observation.
 
D3nz said:
Which is why I said doctor. It's true, not everyone can afford a mental health professional. A visit to your local Prime Cure Clinic should set you back under R300 and the doctor should be able to tell whether you need medication, therapy or need to be hospitalised for observation.
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I disagree. A GP should be able to diagnose and treat physical ailments. They are not trained to diagnose mental disorders, at least not to the same degree as a psychiatrist or, for example, a clinical psychologist.

When a person does not have the money to buy bread and milk for his or her family, a visit to the doctor is not an option. Anyway, all I'm trying to say is that a person with suicide ideation does not see a way out of his or her situation. Depending on how far they have slipped into that dark hole, they may resist medical assistance.

Feeling alienated and lonely is one of the hallmarks of Western society. In a Westernized culture, children are raised to be independent and self supportive. There's nothing wrong with that, except that families drift apart and support systems are non-existent for many people out there. The best support for a depressed person is a caring and loving family that would take the depressed person under its wings. In the absence of these support systems, people seek other ways to cope with their circumstances, such as drug abuse, promiscuity, aggression etc. etc. etc.
 
rubytox said:
I disagree. A GP should be able to diagnose and treat physical ailments. They are not trained to diagnose mental disorders, at least not to the same degree as a psychiatrist or, for example, a clinical psychologist.

When a person does not have the money to buy bread and milk for his or her family, a visit to the doctor is not an option. Anyway, all I'm trying to say is that a person with suicide ideation does not see a way out of his or her situation. Depending on how far they have slipped into that dark hole, they may resist medical assistance.

Feeling alienated and lonely is one of the hallmarks of Western society. In a Westernized culture, children are raised to be independent and self supportive. There's nothing wrong with that, except that families drift apart and support systems are non-existent for many people out there. The best support for a depressed person is a caring and loving family that would take the depressed person under its wings. In the absence of these support systems, people seek other ways to cope with their circumstances, such as drug abuse, promiscuity, aggression etc. etc. etc.
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The state provides a good psychiatric care. They have the modern drugs and due to the cost of the drugs the patient doesnt receive unecessary treatment. If you dont mind the wait and logistical issues you cannot get better psych care that this. The state even does dual psycology and psychiatry which is what anyone with a mental illness is suppose to do. The problem with the private psychologist is that they ride the patient as a gravy train the state system they dont get paid per patient so the faster you sort your patient out the less work for you.

A GP can diagnose and treat and people tend to avoid the GP because they under the impression that a GP is poor doctor because they are just a mere GP.
 
RiaX said:
The state provides a good psychiatric care. They have the modern drugs and due to the cost of the drugs the patient doesnt receive unecessary treatment. If you dont mind the wait and logistical issues you cannot get better psych care that this. The state even does dual psycology and psychiatry which is what anyone with a mental illness is suppose to do. The problem with the private psychologist is that they ride the patient as a gravy train the state system they dont get paid per patient so the faster you sort your patient out the less work for you.

A GP can diagnose and treat and people tend to avoid the GP because they under the impression that a GP is poor doctor because they are just a mere GP.
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I see that you have an answer for everything.
I get the feeling that you would advise a person with PTDS or OCD <insert diagnoses here> to

a) Take a pill
b) Get over it.

Sela.
 
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