Depression.

D3nz said:
It's cipralex. In his case he's been tapering really slowly, so it's not withdrawal. It's more like the depression symptoms are coming back.
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Yeah its not withdrawal. I posted about this in the suicide thread. Over time the patient get tolerant to the drugs especially SSRIs. The dose should be increased not decreased
 
RiaX said:
Yeah its not withdrawal. I posted about this in the suicide thread. Over time the patient get tolerant to the drugs especially SSRIs. The dose should be increased not decreased
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Withdrawal can happen during the tapering phase surely? So even when trying to get off a drug you will be in withdrawal the whole time or is that wrong? Obviously it won't be as severe as stopping entirely though.
 
killadoob said:
Withdrawal can happen during the tapering phase surely? So even when trying to get off a drug you will be in withdrawal the whole time or is that wrong? Obviously it won't be as severe as stopping entirely though.
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Yup. Withdrawal happens because you get used to the dose. If upping the dose is necessary to keep feeling the same then the drug isn't working because you're supposed to keep feeling better over time.
 
killadoob said:
Withdrawal can happen during the tapering phase surely? So even when trying to get off a drug you will be in withdrawal the whole time or is that wrong? Obviously it won't be as severe as stopping entirely though.
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Yes it is. However when it comes to clinical depression you have to understand what you dealing with and that is the damn hardest thing.

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...dal-people?p=10639303&viewfull=1#post10639303

There I explained a wave concept now when you stable and begin to taper down you dont have that "safety barrier" that the SSRI will provide and the patient will relapse badly. Usually the dose can be restarted but they generally increase it over time because of tolerance.

In the case of citalopram we push the dose as high as 60mg per day thereafter adding secondary and tertiary agents to maintain the mental state (these are asylum patients so their treatments were very extreme). See no drug works indefinitely. The channels close, cell uptake changes or the receptors recede and so forth so you have to force a response by increasing the concentration of drug i.e the dose. This holds for pain meds, antidepressants, asthma meds, diuretics, diabetic meds hypertensives and so forth.

You cant abruptly stop any antidepressant and if you decide to go of a substance it must be done with authorization of your treating doctor. Now there are times where you will abruptly stop but this is not one of them you can cause some serious issues abruptly stopping an antidepressant
 
Jhbgirl said:
Sorry to jump in here but I'm really battling atm. I'm on my 3rd month of Serdep 50mg and the effects seems to be less and less. I can't even get out of bed or focus on anything or even just concentrate my way through a movie (unless Tom Hardy is in it hehe) Do I stop with the antidepressants since they don't seem to be doing much? Really not even motivated to go do the dr again to just go through new meds again and again. Last time he wanted to admit me because I was suicidal. *shrug*
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Did the Doctor even bother to discuss the side affects of Serdep with you before he prescribed them ?

By the sounds of your post you are experiencing a few :

Ingredient matches for Serdep 50
Sertraline
Sertraline hydrochloride (a derivative of Sertraline) is reported as an ingredient of Serdep 50 in the following countries:
South Africa
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http://www.drugs.com/international/serdep-50.html

Side effects:
feeling unsteady, loss of coordination;
trouble concentrating
weakness
drowsiness, dizziness, tired feeling
etc etc
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/sertraline-side-effects.html
 
RiaX said:
Yes it is. However when it comes to clinical depression you have to understand what you dealing with and that is the damn hardest thing.

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...dal-people?p=10639303&viewfull=1#post10639303

There I explained a wave concept now when you stable and begin to taper down you dont have that "safety barrier" that the SSRI will provide and the patient will relapse badly. Usually the dose can be restarted but they generally increase it over time because of tolerance.

In the case of citalopram we push the dose as high as 60mg per day thereafter adding secondary and tertiary agents to maintain the mental state (these are asylum patients so their treatments were very extreme). See no drug works indefinitely. The channels close, cell uptake changes or the receptors recede and so forth so you have to force a response by increasing the concentration of drug i.e the dose. This holds for pain meds, antidepressants, asthma meds, diuretics, diabetic meds hypertensives and so forth.

You cant abruptly stop any antidepressant and if you decide to go of a substance it must be done with authorization of your treating doctor. Now there are times where you will abruptly stop but this is not one of them you can cause some serious issues abruptly stopping an antidepressant
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I would be very hesitant to take such a high dose of Citalopram, I am sure I read somewhere that there are dangers relating to your heart above 40mgs...
 
Yup riax knows, he works in some hospital(chemical imbalance unit) or he is a pharmacist one of the two. How he does not know the max allowed is 40mg it is a bit scary if he is giving people 60mg :eek:
 
copacetic said:
I would be very hesitant to take such a high dose of Citalopram, I am sure I read somewhere that there are dangers relating to your heart above 40mgs...
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FDA warnings dont apply to SA until our regulatory boards have confirmed their findings. Though its again its simple logic risk versus benefit. You guys need to stop thinking medicine works like a flow chart. Even if its cardiotoxic in the sense that it MAY cause irregular heart rhythms in some its quite a common dose for those in extreme situations. You either risk a chance of a cardiac abnormality or you let the patient relapse with a possible suicide, what would your call be ? again you may not require such a high dose because your symptoms may not be as severe but your case isnt the most severe is it ?

What it does it causes a elevation in the QT segment of the cardiac cycle

Yup riax knows, he works in some hospital(chemical imbalance unit) or he is a pharmacist one of the two. How he does not know the max allowed is 40mg it is a bit scary if he is giving people 60mg
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Its 40mg per day in a single dose but can go higher. I left practice in may 2012 it was amended only recently not sure if its changed for SA yet though but US and UK it has at 40mg though 60mg is still a viable dose. It also depends on the patient state as well. In the elderly its 20mg and for those with hepatic impairment its 10-20mg depending on the severity of liver failure. The psychiatrist may prescribe up to 80mg depending on the case, they use it "off label" at their discretion. Anyways I dont decide the dose required thats the psych's job not mine. If it falls within an acceptable range I have to let it pass by law
 
killadoob said:
Yup riax knows, he works in some hospital(chemical imbalance unit) or he is a pharmacist one of the two. How he does not know the max allowed is 40mg it is a bit scary if he is giving people 60mg :eek:
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He's a pill popper. :p He doesn't prescribe meds.
 
copacetic said:
I would be very hesitant to take such a high dose of Citalopram, I am sure I read somewhere that there are dangers relating to your heart above 40mgs...
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Well you're not a doc. They're perfectly happy to bomb patients with super high doses regardless of possible repercussions. If something does go wrong its a shrug and a "whoops" and they deal with it.

When I was on Aropax the shrink wanted to triple the dosage when I complained of side effects
 
When I was on Zoloft, my dose varied from 50 mg / day to 150 mg / day.

I found the lower doses worked better for me. I felt quite awful when I went on 150 mg / day. That was when my usual psychiatrist was on maternity leave and her locum said 100 mg / day is too little, I need to be on at least 150 mg / day.

I reckon though that the craziest person in the room was the locum, not me...

She was a chain smoker and quite unhealthy looking, the type of look that comes with heavy living.

But the vitamin D that swa recommended seems to be working quite well for me. These last two weeks or so I feel pretty good.
 
RiaX said:
FDA warnings dont apply to SA until our regulatory boards have confirmed their findings. Though its again its simple logic risk versus benefit. You guys need to stop thinking medicine works like a flow chart. Even if its cardiotoxic in the sense that it MAY cause irregular heart rhythms in some its quite a common dose for those in extreme situations. You either risk a chance of a cardiac abnormality or you let the patient relapse with a possible suicide, what would your call be ? again you may not require such a high dose because your symptoms may not be as severe but your case isnt the most severe is it ?

What it does it causes a elevation in the QT segment of the cardiac cycle
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Sure. I was just commenting as someone who happens to be taking the stuff, from my own personal viewpoint.
 
Alan said:
Well you're not a doc. They're perfectly happy to bomb patients with super high doses regardless of possible repercussions. If something does go wrong its a shrug and a "whoops" and they deal with it.

When I was on Aropax the shrink wanted to triple the dosage when I complained of side effects
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Absolutely. Which is why as a patient, I make an effort to be informed about anything I put in my body.
 
copacetic said:
Educating myself about what I put in my body has not led to any trouble yet...
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well if you do it properly there will be no harm. Though the average person goes and reads the side-effects part and gets scared and stops their meds or end up doing their own thing or even generate the side-effects on their own.

Very common in the drugs that "tend to cause suicidal thoughts" ... the patient will be like "awww I was sad I think im going to kill myself because the medicine is causing suicidal thoughts"
 
RiaX said:
well if you do it properly there will be no harm. Though the average person goes and reads the side-effects part and gets scared and stops their meds or end up doing their own thing or even generate the side-effects on their own.

Very common in the drugs that "tend to cause suicidal thoughts" ... the patient will be like "awww I was sad I think im going to kill myself because the medicine is causing suicidal thoughts"
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That sounds utterly ridiculous (the suicide thing).

I can sort of agree with the side-effects thing, to some degree, but the notion of purposefully shielding a patient from potential side-effects strikes me as unethical, personally.

A lot of medicines that deal with serious medical conditions often have serious side-effects - I'd feel rather put out if a medical person arrogantly made those decisions on my behalf.

Regardless, I am not disagreeing with the psychosomatic dangers of knowledge, that does indeed cause issues. calling for patient ignorance is not my personal way of dealing with it though.
 
What's changed in my lifestyle?

I'm taking around 2000 IU per day of vitamin D and I've started drinking a glass of cranberry juice every evening as part of an anti-microbial diet.

What possible effects have these lifestyle changes had on my behaviour?

My mood is improved these last two weeks. I have less of a desire for drinking coffee.
 
Humberto said:
What's changed in my lifestyle?

I'm taking around 2000 IU per day of vitamin D and I've started drinking a glass of cranberry juice every evening as part of an anti-microbial diet.

What possible effects have these lifestyle changes had on my behaviour?

My mood is improved these last two weeks. I have less of a desire for drinking coffee.
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Your body cannot absorb that much of Vitamin D.
 
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