Depression.

The Voice said:
So the consensus is that it’s the depressed person’s fault for poor lifestyle choices and they should just snap out of it?

I pray that none of you ever have to go through it, when the apparent solution is to just get out into the sun and go for a jog when your brain is telling you that there’s no point to your existence anymore.
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On the contrary, from what I have read in the many posts here, there is no clear distinction between the "blues" and Clinical Depression, hence so much different advice and remedies, there is no Silver Bullet, therefore educating yourself and others empowers you to have multiple tools in the toolbox.
 
The Voice said:
So the consensus is that it’s the depressed person’s fault for poor lifestyle choices and they should just snap out of it?

I pray that none of you ever have to go through it, when the apparent solution is to just get out into the sun and go for a jog when your brain is telling you that there’s no point to your existence anymore.
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Can you explain? Are you saying its either your fine or you need to go on antipsychotics. Surely there is something in between those two states of mind that lifestyle choices can help alleviate?
 
RedViking said:
Lol, you took the rabbit food too literal.
Medication is not evil.
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Sorry updated my post and you were too quick.

It wasn't specifically aimed at you but just the general mantra of one diet to rule them all nonsense.

And there are many cases where diet is the problem and can't be the solution either and medication is the only option available.
 
Thrasil said:
Can you explain? Are you saying its either your fine or you need to go on antipsychotics. Surely there is something in between those two states of mind that lifestyle choices can help alleviate?
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You can't migrate from one state to the other while trying to rectify lifestyle choices. If anything that will just see the person plummeting deeper into despair.

The only way you could make the lifestyle choice adjustment is to get out of the depressive state in the first place.

Only then do you have half a chance of effecting a lifestyle choice and only once you got there can you MAYBE consider changing the medication regime.

There is simply no way for "lifestyle changes" to be implemented and be the solution all on their own.
 
RedViking said:
/looks at the vegan's :p
/cough ***banting diets*** cough
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I'm not even referring to the Yuppie ones, just the bog standard ones pushed by the Medical Aids and the like when using their own data they could very quickly understand that those dietary advices don't apply to the very customers they are pushing them to.

Discovery will literally punt gluten to a celiac's disease patient and think they are doing a good job.
 
Splinter said:
Stopping some of these anti-anxiety/anti-depression medications can cause huge personality changes and the paranoia you speak of. And not for the best. It's like the original person disappeared and a whiny, unpleasant little child takes their place.

By the why - anxiety and depression are apparently quite interlinked, and thus the medications to treat these conditions (and their side-effects) are very similar.
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Yeah, I personally went on a low dose of Lexamil for depression, but it basically got rid of all my anxiety and the occasional random heart palpitation.
 
Thrasil said:
Can you explain? Are you saying its either your fine or you need to go on antipsychotics. Surely there is something in between those two states of mind that lifestyle choices can help alleviate?
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Antidepressants were necessary because my mind had broken and I couldn’t carry on of my own free will. Even prior to that nothing anyone said made any difference anymore. It’s a very rapid descent and not something someone can just snap out of.

The thing about the pills is that they never made me “normal” again, but they did give me the ability to eventually know that “normal” was what I wanted, and it was the start of my healing process.
 
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The_MAC said:
Jumping onto the tail end of this.

My brother recently (at least from a very noticeable perspective) started showing signs of depression e.g. doesn't like social settings, doesn't want to get out of bed, doesn't return messages/calls etc.

He had/has a lot on his plate at the moment i.e. 2 small children, studies, demanding job etc.

He is currently seeing a therapist and is on Brintellix, seems to be working somewhat.

I do sometimes feel like he must just toughen the F up, but that is the un-sympathetic and frustrated side of me talking..

This got me thinking, how many people suffer micro-depression, myself included, cause there are days where I really have to dig deep to get through the day, do my job, be there for my wife and kids, just basically getting through a day (I also have a hectic job, 3 small kids and just try to overall be a good dad/husband/brother/son etc.)

How do you distinguish between clinical depression and stress/fatigue/burnout - I think I had burn-out last year, or at least on the brink of it.

I imagine we will never know, as it is not something you diagnose via pathology but rather by observation and evaluation. But seems sad that some might never get the help they need and must just struggle through life, un-aided..
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My personal take on it is:
1. **** Lifeism : Things are just hard for a while, you're tired and grumpy. That's the stress/fatigue/burnout/micro-depression that you're talking about.
2. Depression : Your life is maybe going great and things should be awesome, but you just want to end yourself and/or can't get out of bed etc.

What makes it difficult is that there's a whole range between those two, a lot of it depends on the person and their circumstances.
 
The_MAC said:
On the contrary, from what I have read in the many posts here, there is no clear distinction between the "blues" and Clinical Depression, hence so much different advice and remedies, there is no Silver Bullet, therefore educating yourself and others empowers you to have multiple tools in the toolbox.
Click to expand...

“The blues” is completely different because you wake up one day and just feel normal again. With clinical depression, that day just never comes.

I understand that as outsiders a lot of people will come with what they think are better solutions, and I appreciate their willingness to help and to understand. But, unless you have actually been clinically depressed you will not truly know what the other person is going through.

Just a simple example: you wake up, get out of bed, have a shower and go to work every day without even thinking about it - even if you have “the blues”. If you’re clinically depressed, your brain doesn’t allow you to do anything apart from waking up. There is simply no motivation or will to do the rest. Some part of you knows you have to, but what’s the point? Why bother? It’s better to just stay here.

You’re simply in a very deep, dark pit. You have no idea how you get there, you have no idea how to get out, and you don’t even care. Sure, people will give you their R0.02 because they read something online and are suddenly experts on how YOU are feeling, but it doesn’t matter anyway because you involuntarily stopped listening a very long time ago.
 
SauRoNZA said:
the like when using their own data they could very quickly understand that those dietary advices don't apply to the very customers they are pushing them to.

Discovery will literally punt gluten to a celiac's disease patient and think they are doing a good job.
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Oh yes, those things are laughable. You will actually notice they are pushing products and not diets. ;)
 
I like to see it this way. Imagine someone can't walk properly and they are given a wheelchair. But the wheelchair is bad because it forces them not to walk. They will rather crawl and drag themselves on the pavement. This sometimes feels like the argument you are having with someone who thinks medicine is bad.
 
RedViking said:
I like to see it this way. Imagine someone can't walk properly and they are given a wheelchair. But the wheelchair is bad because it forces them not to walk. They will rather crawl and drag themselves on the pavement. This sometimes feels like the argument you are having with someone who thinks medicine is bad.
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Not to mention even with a wheelchair you are talking about a year of rehab leading into years of it.

The wheelchair isn’t the quick fix, it’s the means to living a normal-ish life.
 
The Voice said:
“The blues” is completely different because you wake up one day and just feel normal again. With clinical depression, that day just never comes.

I understand that as outsiders a lot of people will come with what they think are better solutions, and I appreciate their willingness to help and to understand. But, unless you have actually been clinically depressed you will not truly know what the other person is going through.

Just a simple example: you wake up, get out of bed, have a shower and go to work every day without even thinking about it - even if you have “the blues”. If you’re clinically depressed, your brain doesn’t allow you to do anything apart from waking up. There is simply no motivation or will to do the rest. Some part of you knows you have to, but what’s the point? Why bother? It’s better to just stay here.

You’re simply in a very deep, dark pit. You have no idea how you get there, you have no idea how to get out, and you don’t even care. Sure, people will give you their R0.02 because they read something online and are suddenly experts on how YOU are feeling, but it doesn’t matter anyway because you involuntarily stopped listening a very long time ago.
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I don't disagree.

The challenge is reasoning with someone that has depression, because what might just help them 5% is often thrown out the window as you are by default told that you cannot relate, how do you get out of this vicious cycle of self-loathing and reluctance to get help (on multiple fronts e.g. psychologically, medically, holistically etc.) vs entertaining any and every bit of help you can get?
 
The_MAC said:
I don't disagree.

The challenge is reasoning with someone that has depression, because what might just help them 5% is often thrown out the window as you are by default told that you cannot relate, how do you get out of this vicious cycle of self-loathing and reluctance to get help (on multiple fronts e.g. psychologically, medically, holistically etc.) vs entertaining any and every bit of help you can get?
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When you have a cold, for example, you know what you need to do to treat it. You feel like crap, you take some OTC meds, a shot of whiskey with honey and get into bed. You may also try some other remedies friends recommend because you just want to get better again.

When you’re clinically depressed, however, you don’t have the same reaction because - and this may be hard to believe - you don’t actually realise there’s anything wrong with you. You don’t even recognise the symptoms, even if people close to you keep pointing them out to you. More often than not it’s a case of “what ARE you on about? I’m fine” - because you don’t know just how sick you really are. It takes a lot longer for your mind to come round to the realisation that “hey, wait a minute…” and for a lot of people they may already be too far gone. And the people who tried to help also left a long time ago.

The only reason I’m able to sit here and type this post is because my SO never gave up on me. She quickly realised that it wasn’t something that I was just going to walk off and that I needed professional help. To this day I honestly have no idea why she stuck around all those years. But I’m grateful that she did.

Having someone by your side who isn’t going to judge you for something that is completely out of your control is one of the most important things in any recovery process. A lot of “help” ends up being friends telling you to “just snap out of it”. Sadly, not everyone has someone like that, or the complete opposite they have everyone they need around them but the people don’t recognise the person needed their help until after it’s too late, mainly because they were so good at hiding in plain sight, eg: Robin Williams.
 
Saw sus in law today. She looks horrific. Like a zombie. Mom who just came out of hospital does not quite understand what is going on and thinks she is just angry because she got a fright and because mom was so long in hospital. Sus didn't bother to greet anyone, and not even her sister who hasn't seen her in more than a year. In complete self pity. Mom's House was left in a mess. Will need to address the whole family tomorrow, this is unacceptable and mom not able to clean after them anymore.


At what stage does it become an emergency.
 
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