Depression.

[copacetic]

So this is nothing more than an experiment on your part?

Is life not really one big experiment? But seriously, yes and no. There are no easy solutions for this kind of thing.

When last did you go for a re-evaluation on your drugs. Is this a financial issue?

I don't need to go for a re-evaluation. It's either up the dose (which I am not willing to do), try a different drug or try something else.

I guess I am just trying something else first.

And yes, this is partially a financial issue. I should probably be in therapy of some sort, but can't afford it.

 

[copacetic]

I wish copa was talking more because the rest of you are making claims like true depression then calling me a troll when i ask for it to be defined. people are telling me it can be diagnosed yet they offer no way to diagnose what is now a disease. So call me what you like .

I think you have been provided several links already to what major depressive disorder entails?

Sorry I am not responding much at the moment, I'm not feeling too hot, and this thread has exploded.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=major+depressive+disorder

 

[killadoob]

just want to know if he has had dialogue with a depression sufferer. For some reason he thinks a Patch Adams approach will do the trick

Yup people are in this thread for a reason so obviously i have had dialogue with depressed people. I really don't see that many people so i have no idea if they are depressed. I see them at parties, braai's etc. So i have not had a dialogue with depressed people but on this forum of course i have.

May i ask why you guys are so against the possibility that positive thinking keeps your brain healthy and could possibly help depression suffers more than just handing them drugs. I told you i was on anti depressants and they did help me because they made me flat so i was not happy but i was not sad and from there i thought let me try this positive thinking possibility and for me it worked, for many people it has worked but if you say it won't work without trying obviously it won't. That is how negative people are, it won't work because i know it won't. Well then it won't work because you have just convinced yourself it won't work.

Anyways i still want to know why trying the positive approach is such a touchy subject? We are talking about depression dude, i have not said positive thinking can cure that type of thing. My mother is bi polar so i know the difference between bi polar and depressed.

I just hope there are some open minded depressed folk who will listen and think about it rather than just attack someone for suggesting it. I am willing to take the abuse and get called a troll because i know positive thinking can help. i cannot say every single depressed person will get cured but what is the harm in trying the natural approach?

Whatever works for people is all good with me but saying it won't work without at least thinking it over is silly. So spunky keep it going bro but at least i know i am happy now and i tried a method that someone suggested and it worked.

if you guys want to talk about bi polar i think there is a thread somewhere, should we start comparing depression now with clinically insane people. As far as i am aware we are talking about depression. Sad, negative people who think the world sucks and cannot get out of their funk.

 

[copacetic]

This is the last time I'm going to say this:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking positively.

However, you are missing the boat a little, in that one of the major effects of depression is to warp your thought process to the point where you could not think positively if your life depended on it (and this is indeed, sometimes the case).

I'd love to think positively. ****, it would be goddamn wonderful! In fact! I'd probably not consider myself depressed if I did!

See the issue? Please tell me you get it?

 

[killadoob]

I think you have been provided several links already to what major depressive disorder entails?

Sorry I am not responding much at the moment, I'm not feeling too hot, and this thread has exploded.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=major+depressive+disorder

Ya but dude you really should try to do things slowly,nicotine is gonna mess your mind up, giving up your meds plus nicotine in one go? I dunno copa, i smoke and i am fine now. So i don't see why you should try and do so much at once but you have tried it before if i recall.

Copa just as a matter of interest what did they diagnose you with? Do you get bad anxiety? if so why haven't you got a benzo to counter it?

I get the point but look at your post, you have told yourself you cannot think positively. Why is it you cannot possibly do it? Are you resigning yourself to being negative for good? i guess when they say you are what you think you are it's the truth. Some people just cannot do things, it is impossible.

Tell me though the meds do they make you happy? Do they make you enjoy life 24/7?

Do you get that thinking positively is something that eventually is just a thing and you don't need to think about being positive you just become positive? Same with negativity, eventually it's what you are. You don't think you just are negative.

agg well if you are happy with your meds and enjoy life then that is great. Whatever helps people is awesome

 

[copacetic]

Ya but dude you really should try to do things slowly,nicotine is gonna mess your mind up, giving up your meds plus nicotine in one go? I dunno copa, i smoke and i am fine now. So i don't see why you should try and do so much at once but you have tried it before if i recall.

I'm not a hardcore smoker, it's more of a social thing. It's easy to stop.

Copa just as a matter of interest what did they diagnose you with? Do you get bad anxiety? if so why haven't you got a benzo to counter it?

I've been diagnosed with clinical depression, by many different medical professionals throughout the course of my life. I use benzos occasionally to counter the anxiety, but those are now mother****ingly dangerous drugs. Not something you want to get hooked on. They will help you for a while, but probably end up ****ing you up way more than you began.

I do like taking them sometimes though, it's great feeling relaxed every now and again, heh.

I get the point but look at your post, you have told yourself you cannot think positively. Why is it you cannot possibly do it? Are you resigning yourself to being negative for good? i guess when they say you are what you think you are it's the truth. Some people just cannot do things, it is impossible.

Because I am depressed, we've been through this already.

Tell me though the meds do they make you happy? Do they make you enjoy life 24/7?

Not at all, and that is not at all the intention or expectation of the drug. I can (sort of) function with them, as opposed to being effectively dysfunctional without them. Am I happy? Not really, I think I'm a bit cynical to be genuinely happy, but that's just my personality.

Do you get that thinking positively is something that eventually is just a thing and you don't need to think about being positive you just become positive? Same with negativity, eventually it's what you are. You don't think you just are negative.

Sure, but do you get in return that not being able to think positively is one of the major symptoms of being depressed? We could go in circles for hours, so let's rather leave this aspect of the discussion?

agg well if you are happy with your meds and enjoy life then that is great. Whatever helps people is awesome

I am glad meds exist, but I would prefer not to take them. If I can manage to do so, I will. This will be attempt number 3.

Nothing wrong with using medication, but I'd prefer not to rely on them for the rest of my life, obviously.

Also, there are a couple of mind-altering chemicals I'd possibly like to try at some point, and SSRIs negate their effect. :erm:

 

[killadoob]

Dude i was depressed and was negative by nature and i managed to force myself to think positive but if you say it cant be done then that is how it is, you are depressed so nothing will help and you will stay depressed.

One thing i have been itching to ask, when you were diagnosed, what other treatment was offered? just swallow and you will be fine or is there something else? What other than the drugs are you doing to counter your depression?

are you expecting the drugs to fix it? Do you think the tablets they gave you has made you worse or better?

Glad to have a nice conversation with someone without them freaking out.

 

[copacetic]

Dude i was depressed and was negative by nature and i managed to force myself to think positive but if you say it cant be done then that is how it is, you are depressed so nothing will help and you will stay depressed.

I'm just saying that thinking positively is a wonderful goal, but not possible for some people. It's as simple as that.

One thing i have been itching to ask, when you were diagnosed, what other treatment was offered? just swallow and you will be fine or is there something else? What other than the drugs are you doing to counter your depression?

I think this perception that there are hordes of pill-peddlers who just want to chuck medication into our craws is a little misguided. As with anything, we as individuals need to take responsibility for our issues. As such, if you encounter a doctor who just says 'here, pills, take', you need to be able to recognize that he/she is probably a **** doctor, and you should look elsewhere for treatment.

The things that have been suggested to me are the obvious ones - Diet, exercise, various mental exercises, therapy...

Once diagnosed it was usually suggested I try medication, but everyone I've ever dealt with was always very respectful of my desire not to use drugs.

are you expecting the drugs to fix it? Do you think the tablets they gave you has made you worse or better?

Dude, I've covered this already, just a couple of posts ago...

Glad to have a nice conversation with someone without them freaking out.

I understand their frustration, believe me.

 

[killadoob]

Can I ask why you are humoring him? When he is a self-confessed coke addict who is criticizing people here for taking medication for depression. All the while trumpeting that self confidence is the way to go. After having said he cannot meet people in a social situation without cocaine...

Coke addict? no i just prefer coke/kat to getting plastered on alcohol. I am confident or how would i be a salesman for a promotional company? I just get a bit of anxiety when i go to party and i only know a few people. Although you seem to think i am anti drug but i take sleeping tablets every night, i only do kat or coke when i know i am going to be meeting many new people. You obviously don't indulge much because coke is a chilled drug, way better than alcohol. It just makes me relaxed and chilled but i don't need it to close 300k deals nor do i need to use it unless i am going out. There is also the issue of drunk driving. Some people go out get fked up and drive home, i sniff a chilled drug that does not alter your mind as badly as alcohol and i can drive home without having to worry about cops.

If anything alcohol should be illegal it is far worse than coke. Anyways compared to how bad i was i am fine now and i like coke and i like sleeping tablets, both help me and i enjoy it. i don't need some anti depressant to be happy everyday, i wake up go to work and all i do is smoke. If i want to do some coke on the weekends whats the issue? better than getting fked out of my mind on alcohol and driving. You though must be perfect i can tell you are happy and content with being nasty and bitter so good for you . If you enjoy being nasty and bitter then so be it but i love my life and perhaps if you live in jhb we can go grab a beer and see how different you are when you see someone for real. Easy to be a bad ass online and tune people but i wonder if that is how you really are, so if you in jhb lemme know we can go grab a beer and you tune you me broken . i am free tomorrow after 12:00

Copa it seems you are just going to be a negative person forever because it's impossible to change, you have depression. so i guess that is your life bud. Depressed because nothing else will work, if you are happy with that then cool. Enjoy it but don't cut out wheat, it is in almost everything other than fruit and veggies. if you think you have some sort of issues with food get tests done.

Time for bed i think, the negativity and bitterness makes me kinda sad for you okes. spunky let me know about that beer tomorrow pal, name the time and place and i will be there provided it is close to randburg or i will have to bring my cat bag so i don't get put in jail for drunk driving.

 

[Humberto]

Quite coincidentally, I ran out of my medication 2 days ago (20 mgs of Citalopram daily), and have (probably quite daftly), elected to not use it for some time.

Frankly, it stopped working as it did the beginning (which was likely related to lifestyle changes on my part [drinking a lot ]), and I am going to attempt treatment by way of:

No alcohol. No sugar. No wheat. No nicotine.

Exercise + this apparently wondrous positive thinking thing.

For science!

When I stopped taking SSRIs in the past, I would feel very good for about a week and then my depressive symptoms would slowly begin to return.

I have a theory though that it's a good idea to reduce the dose every once in a while for a few days at a time in order to help resensitise serotonin receptors. But that's just a theory based on my personal experience, your mileage may vary.

Some people think the true reason why SSRIs have an antidepressant effect is because they promote hippocampal neurogenesis. Pre-synaptic serotonin levels rise within hours of taking an SSRI yet the antidepressant effect takes a few weeks to manifest, which happens to be how long it takes for hippocampus neurogenesis to begin to occur. The reason why there is hippocampal neurogenesis may be because SSRIs increase brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) which stimulates neuron repair and growth. The reason why SSRIs increase BDNF may be because the brain perceives itself as being under assault. SSRIs are not neurotoxic (they are neuroprotective because of their effect on BDNF levels) but the brain may perceive the disruption in serotonin transmission as something that needs to be fixed hence why BDNF levels increase.

 

[Humberto]

The adjective major in major depressive disorder comes from the latin maior meaning greater to distinguish major depressive disorder from simply feeling sad. It does not indicate the severity of depression. The severity of depression is commonly measured using the Hamilton depression (HAM-D) score. Once a diagnosis of a major depressive episode has been established, a HAM-D score of 8-13 indicates that the depression is mild in severity, a score of 14-18 indicates that the depression is moderate in severity, a score of 19-22 indicates that the depression is severe, and a score of 23 or greater indicates that the depression is very severe. Hence somebody may have a major depressive episode of moderate severity.

The Hamilton depression test should not be used to diagnose depression (one may have a HAM-D score of at least 8 without having a major depressive episode, but because of another psychological or psychiatric condition) but only to quantify its severity once a diagnosis has been established. It is not used much in clinical practise but more for research purposes to homogenise test subjects. For example, an antidepressant trial may be run on people with a HAM-D score of at least 14; that way everyone understands the severity of the depression of the subjects who participated in the trial. One version (there's a short and a long one) of the Hamilton depression test may be seen here: http://imaging.ubmmedica.com/all/editorial/psychiatrictimes/pdfs/clinical-scales-ham-d-form.pdf.

The test cannot be reliably self-administered (it must be administered by a trained clinician who understands how to interpret the answers given by the patient) since all people lack objective insight into their own behaviour.

 

[Humberto]

There is a condition known as dysthymia which is like a mild but chronic case of depression. Dysthymia does not respond as well to antidepressants as does major depressive disorder. People with dysthymia may better benefit from therapy than from medication. I have a theory that dysthymia is caused by an unresolved psychological frustration or conflict. For example, somebody who is stuck in a job or a marriage they hate may become dysthymic. But that's just my theory.

 

[Humberto]

Several doctors have advised me to stay on antidepressant medication for the rest of my life. I have always done well with Zoloft; Zoloft is a solid SSRI with a good side-effect profile. Along with Cipramil it has probably the fewest side-effects of the SSRIs.

Currently I am not taking a prescription antidepressant because my ex-girlfriend set it as a condition to our having a relationship that I must quit. But sneaky me, I began taking tryptophan instead! I never told her and I don't feel I was dishonest since she doesn't "believe" in supplements. Why should I have confessed to using a supplement which she considers to be pharmacologically inert?

Tryptophan is an amino-acid that is found in various foods. It is one of the ingredients used for synthesising serotonin in the brain. The theory is that increasing tryptophan intake will result in greater serotonin synthesis. There are different opinions on whether it actually works, but there is some clinical evidence that it does work. I perceive that it is working well for me. However I cannot recommend its use because of safety concerns: it is understood, both theoretically and epidemiologically, that 5-HTP supplementation may cause heart valve damage and the same may be true of tryptophan. I am trying to better understand this issue and the true risk involved (there seems to be an expectation that supplements must be risk-free so that people tend to exaggerate their risks when there are risks) but so far have not come up with much information.

All my friends are getting married and starting families but I'm not. Because of my so-far failed love life I'm beginning to think I may never get married. I also don't know if I will be able to afford starting a family. Hence I may not have family in my old age. I feel it may be better to die a bit earlier than to be alone in old age. Hence why I am tentatively OK with using a supplement which may damage my heart.

 

[Singal]

There is a condition known as dysthymia which is like a mild but chronic case of depression. Dysthymia does not respond as well to antidepressants as does major depressive disorder. People with dysthymia may better benefit from therapy than from medication. I have a theory that dysthymia is caused by an unresolved psychological frustration or conflict. For example, somebody who is stuck in a job or a marriage they hate may become dysthymic. But that's just my theory.

I have a theory that this was the type of depression killadoob had. He'll prolly now go on to deny it, because well, he knows all about depression. He can't understand why people are getting angry......IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING LIGHT OF THEIR ILLNESS, BUD! Numerous people here have told you that certain kinds of depression can be cured by positive thinking and certain kinds can't. Copacetic has reapeatedly told you that negativity is a SYMPTOM of depression, something you cannot seem to grasp.

Just because you can't see something, you don't want to accept it. Then you say that what kingrob says about religion might help.....why?....did you see god in one of your drug induced hazes?

I have to ask, are you as obnoxious in RL, are you well liked, do you wonder if people are talking about you behind your back? A bit of advice, nobody likes a person who's always shoving their opinion down your throat. Get some help, bud. The drugs you're doing are bad, mmkay.

 

[FreeStanler]

Can anyone tell me their thought, and the medical papers provides, on the Marshall Protocol and its pathogenesis? www.mpkb.org . It is very scientific and provides a lot of new insights into many mental disorders...

Humberto, the info you provided was very interesting. I don't understand everything perfectly well, but I will read, and read again, and wikipedia somoe more

 

[FreeStanler]

All my friends are getting married and starting families but I'm not. Because of my so-far failed love life I'm beginning to think I may never get married. I also don't know if I will be able to afford starting a family. Hence I may not have family in my old age. I feel it may be better to die a bit earlier than to be alone in old age. Hence why I am tentatively OK with using a supplement which may damage my heart.

When you least expect it you will find the right person, if that is what you want...

 

[killadoob]

Naaa signal you are the one making your issues so bad, that is what happens, i am depressed and i am negative and that is a problem with my brain there is nothing else but drugs that might help.

You are the one who cannot see there are other things to try but you are depressed so you write them off instantly. I know because i used to do it but i could not take feeling down and drugs making me flat so i decided it was time to try something different.

If you can't handle that positive energy repairs your brain that is your issue, not mine. Religion can help because you will be around happy positive people. If you don like my opinion that is your issue not mine, i was not the only one saying it works and there are thousands of people who have become positive because they tried it. for some it's easier to cry about their depression and go say that it's their brain when it could be there mind. Anyways, stick to the drugs and carry on. I don't really care i have made my points regarding positive therapy but i am sure most of you are like copa, it's impossible to try be positive. So stay negative.

I can assure you many people are just negative and do not need drugs but you will say everyone does because you are ignorant and hard assed but that is rubbish advice. I know some people need drugs but i know some people don't where as you only think people need drugs, close minded and ignorant is the negative way though . I know because i was very negative for many years. Decided nothing is impossible but when when you something is impossible then it is. When you say i am depressed and sad you will be.

 

[kingrob]

Naaa signal you are the one making your issues so bad, that is what happens, i am depressed and i am negative and that is a problem with my brain there is nothing else but drugs that might help.

You are the one who cannot see there are other things to try but you are depressed so you write them off instantly. I know because i used to do it but i could not take feeling down and drugs making me flat so i decided it was time to try something different.

If you can't handle that positive energy repairs your brain that is your issue, not mine. Religion can help because you will be around happy positive people. If you don like my opinion that is your issue not mine, i was not the only one saying it works and there are thousands of people who have become positive because they tried it. for some it's easier to cry about their depression and go say that it's their brain when it could be there mind. Anyways, stick to the drugs and carry on. I don't really care i have made my points regarding positive therapy but i am sure most of you are like copa, it's impossible to try be positive. So stay negative.

I can assure you many people are just negative and do not need drugs but you will say everyone does because you are ignorant and hard assed but that is rubbish advice. I know some people need drugs but i know some people don't where as you only think people need drugs, close minded and ignorant is the negative way though . I know because i was very negative for many years. Decided nothing is impossible but when when you something is impossible then it is. When you say i am depressed and sad you will be.

Killa, I seriously think this is your best and most honest post on MyBB for 2012.

I do really like it.

 

[Singal]

I can assure you many people are just negative and do not need drugs but you will say everyone does because you are ignorant and hard assed but that is rubbish advice. I know some people need drugs but i know some people don't where as you only think people need drugs, close minded and ignorant is the negative way.

:wtf: learn to read and understand, bud. No one is disputing that positivity works for some people. It's when you make comments that people who take antidepressants are taking the easy route that people get angry. You are one confused doob, bud.

 

[Nick333]

I've got to say I'm with killa on this one. Self-pity is a self-perpetuating frame of mind. And, seeking sympathy is damaging to self-esteem.
I think "coming out" as a depressive is important for self-acceptance and dealing with feelings of shame. But, what possible point is there in wallowing in your identity as a depressive? Its sympathy seeking; its attention seeking. Its an avoidance of responsibility.

Believe me, I know depression can be physiological but that doesn't mean ones attitude has no baring on the experience.