Depression.

I must say, what banishes the blues for me is good hard testosterone pumping workout. No equipment necessary - check out Mike Chang's workouts on youtube - search for sixpackshortcuts.

Not that its a miracle cure, but apart from the testo boost, it gives you a worthwhile goal ;)
 
/sigh you guys had to spoil the thread with the name calling. Please try to keep it clean from now
/makes me wonder how people can claim to be happy and positive when one simple comment sends them into an angry name calling rant
 
HapticSimian said:
Lies, half-truths and misrepresentations. Does this tack give an accurate reflection as to how you managed to rise above your supposed humble beginnings, I wonder?

If you, I and the Internet existed a hundred years ago you'd be arguing that diabetes isn't a disease. Depression's pathogenesis is poorly understood, yes; I don't think anyone is arguing the contrary. However to assert that there is no consensus among researchers and clinicians on depression's status as an illness is simply untrue.


And I am, likewise, not convinced that you bothered to glance at - let alone read - much of what was supplied to you.


Again, another misrepresentation. I don't see anyone arguing against the possible positive effects of what you suggest, but it is disingenuous to purport that there does not exist a portion of sufferers that no degree of 'attitude-readjustment' will help. Further, to say medication has not been proven to work is patently false. Antidepressants have been shown to outperform placebos in numerous studies and meta-analyses. The less-than-ideal hit-rate is to be expected where a condition (or, perhaps, numerous contributory conditions) and its mechanics are not well understood - this is why research is conducted, and why treatment improves over time.
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The field of psychology/psychiatry is suspect at best. One hundred years of "science" or "medicine",if you will, and no cures? Medication will only ever be a treatment of symptoms. The fact is the whole industry is bias towards psych-analysis, which doesn't point towards a conspiracy but certainly suggests a cognitive bias against any treatment that doesn't require years of weekly therapy bills.
I remember being told as a kid that I would likely have to deal with depression my whole life and would just have to learn to cope with it. I don't remember being taught any coping skills though. Depressives are encouraged to talk and talk and talk about their feelings - to paid professionals.
On the other hand cognitive behavioral therapy and mindfulness practice can be learnt from a book. CBP has a proven track record but of course once you've taught someone how to deal with their own problems they don't need you anymore. The reason psychologists like to medicate is because its their only option because traditional therapy is largely bull****. I could give a **** about the consensus of an industry that biased against actually achieving its supposed goals.
If psychology as a science actually discovered anything useful it would be making itself redundant.
 
copacetic said:
I struggle to take your view seriously, if you think that anyone advocating for medicine must have some ulterior motive.

Silly.
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Got a family member addicted to anti-depression tablets.

She cannot function without it.

So silly.
 
kingrob said:
Got a family member addicted to anti-depression tablets.

She cannot function without it.

So silly.
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I know people who have had their lives literally saved by the use of medication.

Is the mediaction causing issues that concern you? Or is it just the fact of use you don't like?
 
HapticSimian said:
Did you quote my post by mistake? It's the only assumption I can make, seeing that your response does not seem to address anything I've said in this discussion up until this point.
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I was speaking to the consensus of those in a field with a bias towards analysis and medication.

While I'm on the subject the fact that a minority of sufferers can't be helped by behavioral therapy doesn't mean that the majority who don't need medication aren't being medicated.
 
Nick333 said:
I was speaking to the consensus of those in a field with a bias towards analysis and medication.

While I'm on the subject the fact that a minority of sufferers can't be helped by behavioral therapy doesn't mean that the majority who don't need medication aren't being medicated.
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Certainly, I think many people are on medication that don't need to be. I absolutely don't take issue with the statement that these things are handed out like candy, often without good reason.

I don't like the backlash to this though, which seems to be the opinion that folk who really do need meds to function are malingering wimps.
 
The absolute undeniable fact is that most diagnosed depressives are medicated. Even if they are receiving treatment, the belief that one can learn to cope with life normally while under the effects of mind altering drugs is ludicrous. The fact is that almost everyone who is diagnosed with depression believes they have a disease which requires medication. How do you tell the difference?
 
Nick333 said:
The absolute undeniable fact is that most diagnosed depressives are medicated. Even if they are receiving treatment, the belief that one can learn to cope with life normally while under the effects of mind altering drugs is ludicrous. The fact is that almost everyone who is diagnosed with depression believes they have a disease which requires medication. How do you tell the difference?
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Well, for me, it took a decade and a half of being absolutely ****ing miserable and dysfunctional without meds, to a complete turn-around within a month of taking medication.

I think the best idea though is to use medication as a stepping stone to dealing with the issue holistically, if possible.

Ultimately, we have a responsibility to ourselves to understand our diseases and possible cures.

Never rely on one opinion or one medical professional to make your decisions for you.
 
copacetic said:
I've got a book on mindfulness. Have not read it yet, but now's the time.
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Good. I also recommend John Kabbat Zinn - Full Catastrophic Living (or something). Download - its on TPB.

Honestly, copa learning your what your triggers are is a huge step. Being aware of your feelings as they arise means you can nip them in the bud early.
 
Nick333 said:
I was speaking to the consensus of those in a field with a bias towards analysis and medication.

While I'm on the subject the fact that a minority of sufferers can't be helped by behavioral therapy doesn't mean that the majority who don't need medication aren't being medicated.
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I'm still confused as to why you directed your post at me - it's not as if I'm advocating a state of affairs where everyone who wakes up feeling a bit offish is handed a box of SSRIs.

My only contention, really, is that there are enough data points to suggest that depression can be considered a legitimate disease. Poorly understood and excessively easily (and haphazardly) medicated against, sure, but that's not what I'm arguing.
 
I really wish the mods hadn't removed those comments. I can see why Copacetic is so against censorship. The point I'm trying to make is this....I freely admit I suffer from depression and take antidepressants. I think I have comported myself fairly well in this thread. I have not flown off the handle in a rage. I have not called people names. I have tried to explain that while positive thinking works for some, they don't work for everyone suffering with depression.

I asked someone here a question AFTER being called a stubborn a************, someone who claims he had depression but cured it by being positive and tough. This person flew into a rage and started with the name calling. I was called a whiny b*****and told to toughen the f**** up. Now, I can remember when I was first diagnosed with depression, before the antidepressants took effect, how I would fly off into a rage at the slightest provocation. These days there are no uncontrollable rages. I get angry and upset, but I'm able to control it.

So, it makes me wonder how happy and positive can you be when the slightest provocation sends you off into an angry rant. Uncontrollable anger is a symptom of depression. Has the depression really been cured or is it just there lurking under the surface of your happy mask?
 
copacetic said:
Certainly, I think many people are on medication that don't need to be. I absolutely don't take issue with the statement that these things are handed out like candy, often without good reason.

I don't like the backlash to this though, which seems to be the opinion that folk who really do need meds to function are malingering wimps.
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I really don't think their is a giant backlash, tbh, copa. I think if anything there is a trend towards believing that the clinically depressed are victims. Which I suppose we are. None of us choose depression but I do think depression lends itself to a victim mentally. By labeling something a disease and handing out medication you're steering people away from realising that they can only be cured of this affliction through their own efforts. Its a fine line. On the one hand people with depression do need empathy but on the other hand too much sympathy can feed the victim mentality. I know because I've been there. As soon as the "its not my fault" thought process starts the temptation to just curl up and die starts to creep in. Its true, its not our fault. But, it is our responsibility to fix ourselves as best we can.
I also don't think depression is a descriptive enough term. For me self-loathing is probably more accurate. I'm not sure if that's true of everyone. The feeling of victim hood that arises from my self-loathing depression makes me despise myself more.
 
Singal said:
I really wish the mods hadn't removed those comments. I can see why Copacetic is so against censorship. The point I'm trying to make is this....I freely admit I suffer from depression and take antidepressants. I think I have comported myself fairly well in this thread. I have not flown off the handle in a rage. I have not called people names. I have tried to explain that while positive thinking works for some, they don't work for everyone suffering with depression.

I asked someone here a question AFTER being called a stubborn a************, someone who claims he had depression but cured it by being positive and tough. This person flew into a rage and started with the name calling. I was called a whiny b*****and told to toughen the f**** up. Now, I can remember when I was first diagnosed with depression, before the antidepressants took effect, how I would fly off into a rage at the slightest provocation. These days there are no uncontrollable rages. I get angry and upset, but I'm able to control it.

So, it makes me wonder how happy and positive can you be when the slightest provocation sends you off into an angry rant. Uncontrollable anger is a symptom of depression. Has the depression really been cured or is it just there lurking under the surface of your happy mask?
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Very bad behaviour by that forum member. I was also called 'whiny' last night for god only knows what reason, until google shed some light
Emotion is viewed by society as a feminine trait (versus the masculine trait of rationality), and is therefore seen as something “bad”. Whining is seen as an emotional action; emotional to the point of invalidating what the “whiner” is actually saying. Women are seen as more emotional than men by default; women are also more likely to have their opinions/complaints dismissed when being emotional
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