'Don't blame apartheid'

[Sneeky]

And your parents voted to maintain a facist police state based on racism .... I guess their children which would be you are now merely reaping what they sowed eh ???.

How far back do you want to dig Tibby?

Let me remind you that 70% of the white population of voting age voted YES in the referendum for true democracy and equal rights for all.

The people you refer to are mostly dead or dying my friend, get over yourself.

The National Party produced massive election "Yes" posters with the message "Yes! Ja! SA" and a poster showing a picture of an AWB member with a gun and with the text "You can stop this man! Vote YES".

The Democratic Party had a more traditional posters with the message "Ja vir vrede (Yes for peace)".

85.7% turnout with a resounding YES vote of 68.73%, these are the 'facists' you so keenly refer to now.

 

[Xarog]

Just because they voted to end a violent regime when their lives were made unpleasant does not mean that they never supported that regime in the first place.

 

[Sneeky]

Just because they voted to end a violent regime when their lives were made unpleasant does not mean that they never supported that regime in the first place.

Life was very pleasant back then Xarog, for the white population, the ones that strangely enough voted to end the status quo.

No fences, no razor wire, no murders or rapes, hardly any burglaries anywhere in white areas, solid education platform, functioning public service departments, Utopia.

I can go on.

Your argument has zero substance, run along.

 

[Bageloo]

Life was very pleasant back then Xarog, for the white population, the ones that strangely enough voted to end the status quo.

No fences, no razor wire, no murders or rapes, hardly any burglaries anywhere in white areas, solid education platform, functioning public service departments, Utopia.

I can go on.

Your argument has zero substance, run along.

But that could not be sustained for any longer. It was not as Utopia-ish as you put it. There was international pressure, sanctions, isolation, terrorist bombings, endless stayaways/strikes, mass consumer boycots, ailing economy. Basicaly the country had no future...

 

[chiskop]

How far back do you want to dig Tibby?
The people you refer to are mostly dead or dying my friend, get over yourself.

Dead or dying? You could've voted Nat in a whites only election and still be in your thirties.

 

[Xarog]

Bageloo speaks the truth.

 

[Sneeky]

Quite right Bageloo, the political pressure from the ANC's then friends (the west) in the form of sanctions was great, as was the war on the border against the ANC's other pals, the commies and the Cubans.
Strikes and disruptions with in the country were also taking there toll but at the end of the day, the facists as Tibby puts it voted for change, nobody else.

Stop and think for one minute what would of happened had the right wing won that referendum.

 

[Sneeky]

Dead or dying? You could've voted Nat in a whites only election and still be in your thirties.

Yes, the ones that did vote in the last whites only election were the ones that voted in the referendum. Almost 70% of them voted to end apartheid.

I'm guessing here but I say most of those that didnt vote yes were a wee bit older than minimum voting age at the time. Hence the dead or dying comment. I think it is appropriate reasoning.

Some people just hate to admit it now as it goes against the grain of all white people are racists.

 

[Xarog]

Quite right Bageloo, the political pressure from the ANC's then friends (the west) in the form of sanctions was great, as was the war on the border against the ANC's other pals, the commies and the Cubans.
Strikes and disruptions with in the country were also taking there toll but at the end of the day, the facists as Tibby puts it voted for change, nobody else.

Stop and think for one minute what would of happened had the right wing won that referendum.

Yes, the docile masses were convinced that their future would be unpleasant if things continued along their current path whereas previously they didn't really give a damn who got rogered as long as they were comfortable.

Supporting a regime with a vote (which happened, the majority of the country voted for a party which supported racist policies) may not be the same as supporting a regime ideologically, but it IS still support nonetheless.

 

[Bageloo]

Quite right Bageloo, the political pressure from the ANC's then friends (the west) in the form of sanctions was great, as was the war on the border against the ANC's other pals, the commies and the Cubans.
Strikes and disruptions with in the country were also taking there toll but at the end of the day, the facists as Tibby puts it voted for change, nobody else.

Stop and think for one minute what would of happened had the right wing won that referendum.

My bet is a civil war...In the end the white people of SA did the most sensible thing by voting yes...
I remember I was doing standard 9 at the time and we were in a Biology class when the results of that referendum were announced. The joy we experienced that day can only be surpassed by that of '94 and winning the 2010 bid...

 

[Alan]

My bet is a civil war...In the end the white people of SA did the most sensible thing by voting yes...
I remember I was doing standard 9 at the time and we were in a Biology class when the results of that referendum were announced. The joy we experienced that day can only be surpassed by that of '94 and winning the 2010 bid...

Zuma not becoming president......

Oh wait

 

[rwenzori]

No thanks. I'm no great fan of the Nats

HNP <> NP

Herstig, old boy!

 

[Sneeky]

Xarog, really, if the vote went NO, Sharpville Boipatong and all these other incidents would have been a picnic in comparison to what would lie ahead.
The country as a whole would be doomed, for everyone, not just the white people. Open you eyes.

You just hate to admit that white people wanted to effect change almost as much as the black population and you cannot get it into your head that one of the reasons was because what was happening was wrong.

This is a gem Xarog

Supporting a regime with a vote (which happened, the majority of the country voted for a party which supported racist policies) may not be the same as supporting a regime ideologically, but it IS still support nonetheless.

So by your genius the people that voted Yes should rather of not turned up at all to vote, thus giving the election to the right wing!
*shakes head in despair*

 

[Sneeky]

My bet is a civil war...In the end the white people of SA did the most sensible thing by voting yes...
I remember I was doing standard 9 at the time and we were in a Biology class when the results of that referendum were announced. The joy we experienced that day can only be surpassed by that of '94 and winning the 2010 bid...

Ahmen to that
It was the first time I had ever voted. I had completed my national service and was working at the time. On leaving the factory, all my colleagues (white and black) were urging the people to do the right thing.
As the results came in on the radio whilst at work ( the following day I think ) there was real euphoria shared amongst everyone.
Happy times.

 

[Xarog]

Xarog, really, if the vote went NO, Sharpville Boipatong and all these other incidents would have been a picnic.
The country as a whole would be doomed, for everyone, not just the white people.

Exactly.

Open you eyes.

On the contrary, I think you need to look more closely at what I'm saying.

You just hate to admit that white people wanted to effect change almost as much as the black population and you cannot get it into your head that one of the reasons was because what was happening was wrong.

Rubbish. You're trying to absolve the white minority (which I am a part of) entirely of any blame by pointing to the refurendum like it's reason enough for a catch-all forgiveness card - which it isn't.

So by your genius the people that voted Yes should rather of not turned up at all to vote, thus giving the election to the right wing!
*shakes head in despair*

Not at all. By my genius you have to accept that people could have voted for selfish reasons rather than altruistic ones, especially given the real benefit they stood to gain from it.

 

[Bageloo]

Ahmen to that
It was the first time I had ever voted. I had completed my national service and was working at the time. On leaving the factory, all my colleagues (white and black) were urging the people to do the right thing.
As the results came in on the radio whilst at work ( the following day I think ) there was real euphoria shared amongst everyone.
Happy times.

Oh, I missed ...amaBokoboko... in '95. I don't understand much of rugby but I knew it was game, set and match when Stransky struck that fatal blow to the All Blacks...

 

[rwenzori]

Just because they voted to end a violent regime when their lives were made unpleasant does not mean that they never supported that regime in the first place.

There were 2 referendums. 2 Nov 83 and 17 Mar 92. Much the same result if I recall. Certainly in 1983 there was no concern about our lives being "unpleasant", nor about how long we could maintain things by force. We were well in control.

1983:

The white referendum is held on the constitutional proposals. The results, announced on 3 November 1983 show that 1,360,223 people (65.95%) have voted in favour, 691,577 (33.53%) against, with 10,669 (0.52%) spoilt papers, on a 76.02% turn out.

1992:

In the referendum for whites only, 68.7 per cent voted "Yes", compared to 31.3 per cent who voted "No". 86 per cent of the white voting population participated in the referendum.

From www.sahistory.org.za

 

[Xarog]

And yet despite the fact that the NP promoted racist policies, the white majority voted for them anyway. Guess they liked having their bread buttered on both sides, or rather, they wanted to see apartheid ended, but they never really felt strongly about it.

Really, the information you bring to light makes it all the more worse. It's like they were voting for which damn washing powder they preferred.

 

[chiskop]

1983 was for the tricameral parliament? I think that it is arguable whether the tricameral parliament was a step in the direction of valid, universal democracy, or away from it.

The referendum results may have been similar but I don't think that there was neccessarily an overwhelming correlation between 1983 yesses and 1992 yesses or vice versa.

To try and explain what I mean: I think that there were many in 1983 that felt that the tricameral parliament was a form of puppet governance, and that it gave unwarranted legitimacy to the Nat govt; and hence voted NO. I don't think that there were very many people who had similar misgivings about the 1992 vote.

 

[Sneeky]

Xarof, i will sooner put toilet paper between Zuma's toes and light it than wash his feet, or any other person white or black.
Forgiveness, from who and for what? Go to hell man.
As for absolving anyone, not in the least.
My argument is such that this rather significant event in our history is 'always' overlooked in favour of more traditional ones that drum up support and anti white emotions.

No matter, Xarog, you are right, white people are all selfish, racist swine that don't belong here and only voted yes in the referendum to effect change for their own selfish reasons, not because it was the right thing to do.
You are right, what was I thinking.