'Don't blame apartheid'

[rwenzori]

The english vote was never (or seldom) an apartheid/racist vote: their whole reason for existence was anti-racist (no matter any 'agreements' made with "the nats" for want of a better word, over time.)

Coming from an English-speaking home, I recognise the attitude, and agree with it in my lifetime. But one must not forget that the British had a lot to do with limiting the rights of blacks, from way back. I can't remember the book, but I am sure I remember reading about Cecil Rhodes lobbying after the 2nd Bore Wore to ensure that any political dispensation continued to provide a steady stream of cheap "native" labour to the mines and industries. I am pretty clueless about SA history in the early 1900s but I am sure than under British colonial rules many political and ownership rights were taken from the "natives". The gNatte just formalised things and made them worse. I am sure some of the other forumites can provide evidence.

 

[chiskop]

In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.

Charles De Gaulle once said.

There's a new game
We like to play you see
A game with added reality
You treat me like a dog
Get me down on my knees

We call it master and servant
We call it master and servant

Depeche Mode once said.

(I've had this song in my head since reading de Gaulle's quote. I thought I'd share with everyone.)

 

[Alan]

Charles De Gaulle once said.



Depeche Mode once said.

(I've had this song in my head since reading de Gaulle's quote. I thought I'd share with everyone.)

Now I have it too

 

[BandwidthAddict]

I am sick and tired of the arrogance of the anti-white in this forum so I am going to point out something: The framers of apartheid were right - blacks are not capable of running a country!

Some problems that countries run on western values do not have to worry about: Escom, eNatis, Telkom, PetroSA, crime, taxi violence, burning of train stations, burning of schools, suppression of press, lack of service delivery, gross and tolerated incompetence, "bring me my machine gun", gross corruption, nepotism, protectionism, 40% unemployment, living in fortresses, paying taxes but getting zip in return.

There are "western" countries that have some of those problems but they still function and do not have 40% unemployment.

To those that believe apartheid was the genesis of these problems, look north. Was apartheid to blame for Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Ethiopia, DRC, Ivory Coast, Mozambique, and on, and on, and on. These problems were caused by african tribalism, the same problems that plague South Africa today.

Yes, they were right, so prove me wrong.

 

[Jozi101]

I am sick and tired of the arrogance of the anti-white in this forum so I am going to point out something: The framers of apartheid were right - blacks are not capable of running a country!

Some problems that countries run on western values do not have to worry about: Escom, eNatis, Telkom, PetroSA, crime, taxi violence, burning of train stations, burning of schools, suppression of press, lack of service delivery, gross and tolerated incompetence, "bring me my machine gun", gross corruption, nepotism, protectionism, 40% unemployment, living in fortresses, paying taxes but getting zip in return.

There are "western" countries that have some of those problems but they still function and do not have 40% unemployment.

To those that believe apartheid was the genesis of these problems, look north. Was apartheid to blame for Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Ethiopia, DRC, Ivory Coast, Mozambique, and on, and on, and on. These problems were caused by african tribalism, the same problems that plague South Africa today.

Yes, they were right, so prove me wrong.

Finally, an honest whitey who is not afraid of admitting to being a racist pig. I like this. Now we can start debating the real issues ladies and gentlemen. I hope your ass doesn't get banned though. Anyone else wants to come out of the racist closet?

 

[Bageloo]

I am sick and tired of the arrogance of the anti-white in this forum so I am going to point out something: The framers of apartheid were right - blacks are not capable of running a country!

Some problems that countries run on western values do not have to worry about: Escom, eNatis, Telkom, PetroSA, crime, taxi violence, burning of train stations, burning of schools, suppression of press, lack of service delivery, gross and tolerated incompetence, "bring me my machine gun", gross corruption, nepotism, protectionism, 40% unemployment, living in fortresses, paying taxes but getting zip in return.

There are "western" countries that have some of those problems but they still function and do not have 40% unemployment.

To those that believe apartheid was the genesis of these problems, look north. Was apartheid to blame for Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Ethiopia, DRC, Ivory Coast, Mozambique, and on, and on, and on. These problems were caused by african tribalism, the same problems that plague South Africa today.

Yes, they were right, so prove me wrong.

What's African tribalism got to do with our problems ? You gotta be kidding

 

[kilo39]

Coming from an English-speaking home, I recognise the attitude, and agree with it in my lifetime. But one must not forget that the British had a lot to do with limiting the rights of blacks, from way back. I can't remember the book, but I am sure I remember reading about Cecil Rhodes lobbying after the 2nd Bore Wore to ensure that any political dispensation continued to provide a steady stream of cheap "native" labour to the mines and industries. I am pretty clueless about SA history in the early 1900s but I am sure than under British colonial rules many political and ownership rights were taken from the "natives". The gNatte just formalised things and made them worse. I am sure some of the other forumites can provide evidence.

Yes to "appease" the afrikaaners and to 'find a peace.'

History of South Africa
Cecil John Rhodes

/British Empire

 

[rwenzori]

Some problems that countries run on western values do not have to worry about: Escom, eNatis, Telkom, PetroSA, crime, taxi violence, burning of train stations, burning of schools, suppression of press, lack of service delivery, gross and tolerated incompetence, "bring me my machine gun", gross corruption, nepotism, protectionism, 40% unemployment, living in fortresses, paying taxes but getting zip in return.

You would prefer: Die Poskantoor, suppression of press, lack of service delivery, gross and tolerated incompetence, gross corruption, nepotism, protectionism, 40% unemployment, Group Areas Act, pass laws, BOSS, Special Branch, Mixed Marriages Act, Immorality Act, National Service, Boetie gat border toe, Kid Korporaal jaaging you around trees, pole PT, JB Fogstar, Total Onslaught, Swart Gevaar, censorship, nipple stars, Polly street, 90-day detention, banning orders, SABC propaganda, etc that the Nats gave us?

 

[BandwidthAddict]

You would prefer: Die Poskantoor, suppression of press, lack of service delivery, gross and tolerated incompetence, gross corruption, nepotism, protectionism, 40% unemployment, Group Areas Act, pass laws, BOSS, Special Branch, Mixed Marriages Act, Immorality Act, National Service, Boetie gat border toe, Kid Korporaal jaaging you around trees, pole PT, JB Fogstar, Total Onslaught, Swart Gevaar, censorship, nipple stars, Polly street, 90-day detention, banning orders, SABC propaganda, etc that the Nats gave us?

lack of service delivery? I used to live in Durban, we had great service delivery. No potholes, bridges actually had metal rails instead of chicken wire, the ports worked very well. No problems there.

tolerated incompetence - see above.

40% unemployment under the old system? Can you back up that claim?

Boetie gat border toe? If Angola and other were not such f**ked up countries, then that would not have been a problem. Well what do you know, they are still f**ked up, even more so. Also times were different, we were fighting the communists. Would you have preferred the whole world end up in the clutches of communism and end up like Zimbabwe/Ethiopia. The USSR did not fall because they gave up, the USSR was running out of resources to survive because nobody was managing them properly - I remember reports of mile long lines for bread for goodness sake.

Swart Gevaar - still here today; get yer electric fences, electric gates, tracker etc

nipple stars - ok, that one it bad We should hang them all

SABC propaganda - nothing has changed, just the message.

90-day detention - just try and not pay your taxes / tv license It would be nice if the current government would at least try to detain the bad guys for 90 days, you know, once in a while.

 

[Sneeky]

Finally, an honest whitey who is not afraid of admitting to being a racist pig. I like this. Now we can start debating the real issues ladies and gentlemen. I hope your ass doesn't get banned though. Anyone else wants to come out of the racist closet?

by this you mean that every other white person is then a racist pig, just in the closet?
Perhaps you are the racist?

 

[rwenzori]

Oink oink.

 

[kilo39]

Boetie gat border toe? If Angola and other were not such f**ked up countries, then that would not have been a problem. Well what do you know, they are still f**ked up, even more so. Also times were different, we were fighting the communists. Would you have preferred the whole world end up in the clutches of communism and end up like Zimbabwe/Ethiopia. The USSR did not fall because they gave up, the USSR was running out of resources to survive because nobody was managing them properly - I remember reports of mile long lines for bread for goodness sake.

The only reason you 'were fighting the communists' is because policy gave the commies an opening and leverage (ie, the legacies of colonialism and apartheid rule made ground ripe for 'revolution.') Otherwise there would have been no communist fight (at least not here.)

 

[BandwidthAddict]

The only reason you 'were fighting the communists' is because policy gave the commies an opening and leverage (ie, the legacies of colonialism and apartheid rule made ground ripe for 'revolution.') Otherwise there would have been no communist fight (at least not here.)

Ok, so it has nothing to do with USSR saying - it's ok to be a bunch of tyrannical b*st*rds, in fact, we will give you money, training and weapons to be communist and help us kill off all the other ideologies.

Pity that the policy backfired for most of the "leaders" of the time

 

[kilo39]

Ok, so it has nothing to do with USSR saying - it's ok to be a bunch of tyrannical b*st*rds, in fact, we will give you money, training and weapons to be communist and help us kill off all the other ideologies.

Pity that the policy backfired for most of the "leaders" of the time

This is just 'pure racist propaganda.' Money had to come from somewhere (and the russkies had lots to spend on spreading their ideology, if nothing else.)

ANC was never communist: it became that way through organisations like the SACP, and let us remember 'capitalism' was doing 'the poor people of the world' no favours.

Let us also remember that much of the anc funding came from countries like Norway (not Russia.)

 

[Sneeky]

Let us also remember that much of the anc funding came from countries like Norway (not Russia.)

and now it comes from crooks and dodgey oil deals.

 

[Nod]

The moment people can't admit to their own mistakes/failures, they start to look for the usual suspects. In our case Apartheid, racist plot, "the west", communist or some other mysterious group.

People should get over themselves, and start to work together. Pointing fingers at things that has happened or might have happened in the past, will not make the future brighter.

 

[Jozi101]

Ok, so it has nothing to do with USSR saying - it's ok to be a bunch of tyrannical b*st*rds, in fact, we will give you money, training and weapons to be communist and help us kill off all the other ideologies.

Pity that the policy backfired for most of the "leaders" of the time

Propaganda!!!!

You guys fought a war that didn't really exist. Like gullible little children, you fell for it hook, line & sinker. There was no communist threat.

 

[rwenzori]

Propaganda!!!!

You guys fought a war that didn't really exist. Like gullible little children, you fell for it hook, line & sinker. There was no communist threat.

Well maybe, but what were the Cubans and Russians doing in Angola, and why did they try to invade SWA when SA pulled out under UN supervision?

 

[BandwidthAddict]

Tell that to the Angolans and Zimbabweans. You may be safe sitting in your office/home writing nice little puff pieces about the wonders of communism and tribalism when they are living the reality.

 

[BandwidthAddict]

Well maybe, but what were the Cubans and Russians doing in Angola, and why did they try to invade SWA when SA pulled out under UN supervision?

I'm confused, I thought I was supposed to be arguing against you Get with the program.

Just pissed off that you got there before me