BS argument, breaking the law is breaking the law.
If you cant do the time, dont do the crime.
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Drivers locked up
- Thread starter Ou grote
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BS argument, breaking the law is breaking the law.
If you cant do the time, dont do the crime.
Exactly
Or you could just have the permanent camera's at regular intervals.
There are plenty of options for improving the safety on our roads - but they stick to the one that costs the least and generates the most revenue. How strange is that?
You posted "secure the attendance of an accused at court for trial."
So did they lock them up so that they would attend a trial later that day?
McSack
Executive Member
Absolutely
A study was done in the EU fairly recently (I'll find the gen this afternoon some time) which proved this was not the case, and that visible policing was the most effective way of enforcing traffic laws.
My point exactly. Put up permanent cameras and let everyone know where they are and speeding will be cut by 90% at least. A case in point is a section of the freeway passing Centurion near Pretoria. The cameras are in plain site and everyone knows they are there... except for the oddtourist, everyone, and I mean everyone slows down to below 100 on that bit of road
Fines / Jailing wouldn't be necessary if the police were visible
That's what we pay taxes for. Maybe they should run their budgets in a more efficient manner and then they wouldn't have to generate other forms of income
You're assuming that I flout the laws of the road.
. My problem is not me getting the fines and having to pay them. My problem is that the fines don't prevent maniacs driving around true to their nature with very little chance of being brought to book. How many people do you think really pay their fines?Well the rapists are at least arrested and put in jail (oh wait ...let me rephrase that).... the rapists are supposed to stay in jail if they are arrested which would prevent them from being able to commit more rape.
Traffic fines on the other hand, don't enforce the rules of the road. If you want evidence just take a look around you in the traffic on your way home from work this evening.
Say that to all your soul-mates maybe then real crime will reduce and the cops can then spend more time on petty traffic laws.
TRAFFIC OFFICERS
The powers of a traffic police officer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traffic on South Africa's roads is controlled by the uniformed traffic police of the provincial administrations and local authorities. Uniformed members of the South African Police Service have the same powers as traffic officers. Their directions and signals must be obeyed even when these conflict with fixed signs or signals on the road. Limited duties are assigned to traffic wardens and to 'casual' or temporary traffic officers who supervise pedestrian crossings near schools.
How traffic is regulated
A traffic officer (or ordinary police officer) may divert or direct traffic for any reason connected with the regulation of traffic. It is an offence to disobey a directive - for example, one which directs you to turn off a main road or to take a particular lane.
If you are directed to proceed against a red light or to drive the wrong way along a one-way street, you must do so, unless there is an obvious danger that the officer has not seen. You would not be prosecuted because a traffic officer's instruction takes precedence over traffic signs and signals.
Although your right to use a road is confined basically to travel, you are entitled to stop to pick up or set down passengers and to load or unload goods. Specific roads such as freeways are an exception. You should ask a police officer for permission if you wish to stop or park in a restricted area. If permission is granted, this overrides any restrictions that may exist. Remember, however, that permission can be withdrawn and you may be ordered to move on at any time. Casual traffic officers and traffic wardens are not empowered to authorise parking in a restricted area.
When a motor vehicle may be removed
Any motor vehicle that causes an obstruction to traffic or is parked in contravention of restrictions may be towed away to an official car pound. Similarly, any vehicle left unattended on a public road for seven days within an urban area and 24 hours outside an urban area may be regarded as abandoned and towed away.
Although vehicles are usually removed by the traffic department, in smaller towns the work may be contracted to a local garage and will be done under the supervision of a police officer.
When a motorist can be stopped
A uniformed police officer has the right to stop any vehicle at any time. Traffic wardens may not stop vehicles or otherwise regulate traffic; the authority of casual traffic officers is restricted to their duties at crossings. All motorists must stop when the 'stop' sign is swung across the roadway by a scholar patrol.
In all cases where you have been lawfully stopped, you must not drive on until you have been given permission to do so or have received a signal indicating that you can proceed.
Questions a motorist must answer
If you are stopped by the police, you are obliged to give your name and address, if required, and any other particulars concerning your identity. An inspector of licences also has the right to demand this information. You are entitled, however, to ask such a person, whether in uniform or not, for proof of identify.
A licence inspector, after having provided proof of identity, may demand the licence authorising you to drive a vehicle as well as information that may confirm your identity. If you are not the owner of the vehicle, the inspector may demand information leading to the identification of the owner. You can also be instructed to produce any document relevant to the registration or licensing of a motor vehicle.
PRODUCING A DRIVING LICENCE A police or traffic officer or an inspector of licences may demand to see a driving licence, which by law must be kept on the driver's person or in the vehicle. In some cases, the licence must be shown to a police officer at any police station within seven days.
ROADWORTHINESS A police or traffic officer may stop a vehicle and, if he or she is licensed to drive that class of vehicle, may drive it to ensure that it is roadworthy or for any other purpose relating to the execution of a duty. An inspector of licences may give notice in writing to the owner or any person in charge of a vehicle to produce the vehicle for inspection at a specified date and place.
Both a police officer and an examiner of vehicles may order that the use of a vehicle considered unroadworthy be discontinued immediately. They may, alternatively, specify that the vehicle may only be used for a limited period or to reach a specific destination. They are empowered to remove the clearance certificate (licence disc) from the windscreen.
ORDER TO DISCONTINUE A police officer may forbid a person who is mentally or physically incapable of controlling a vehicle from driving. The officer may also arrange for the safe parking or storage of the vehicle.
When police may search a vehicle
Any traffic officer or member of the South African Police Service may search any vehicle without a warrant. In certain circumstances an officer of the Department of Environmental Affairs may also search a vehicle. (See wildlife; police, powers of the; fishing.) An officer who searches a vehicle without a warrant should have reason to suspect it is carrying some item that may be used as evidenceI in proving the commission of a crime.
A motorist is normally entitled to stay in a vehicle, but should step out if asked. Failure to do so could lead to a charge of obstructing the police.
When a motorist can be arrested
Police have the power to arrest without a warrant any driver who:
Is believed to be unfit to drive as a result of consuming alcohol or drugs;
Has been seen driving dangerously, recklessly or carelessly;
Is wilfully obstructing the roadway;
Is suspected of driving while disqualified - that is, while his or her licence is cancelled;
Is suspected of having committed a crime or of being about to commit a crime.
Police powers regarding people caught in the act of committing an offence are wider than when the police act merely on the suspicion of someone having committed a crime. (See police, powers of the.)
Ordinary citizens must assist a peace officer to make an arrest if they are requested to do so. A peace officer who requires the use of a motor vehicle to make an arrest is empowered to commandeer one. The owner has the right to claim compensation for any damage caused, as well as for the use of the vehicle, from the employer of the officer who commandeered it, such as a provincial administration or local authority.
Powers of traffic wardens
Traffic wardens are not vested with the peace officer's powers of arrest. Like any other private individual, however, they may make a citizen's arrest. (See arrest.) Their duty is to prevent the infringement of parking regulations, and to issue spot-fine tickets where vehicles are illegally parked. Under normal circumstances, traffic wardens do not have the authority to act as traffic controllers.
http://www.legalcity.net/Index.cfm?fuseaction=RIGHTS.article&Index=T&ArticleID=2892148&Page=2
The powers of a traffic police officer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traffic on South Africa's roads is controlled by the uniformed traffic police of the provincial administrations and local authorities. Uniformed members of the South African Police Service have the same powers as traffic officers. Their directions and signals must be obeyed even when these conflict with fixed signs or signals on the road. Limited duties are assigned to traffic wardens and to 'casual' or temporary traffic officers who supervise pedestrian crossings near schools.
How traffic is regulated
A traffic officer (or ordinary police officer) may divert or direct traffic for any reason connected with the regulation of traffic. It is an offence to disobey a directive - for example, one which directs you to turn off a main road or to take a particular lane.
If you are directed to proceed against a red light or to drive the wrong way along a one-way street, you must do so, unless there is an obvious danger that the officer has not seen. You would not be prosecuted because a traffic officer's instruction takes precedence over traffic signs and signals.
Although your right to use a road is confined basically to travel, you are entitled to stop to pick up or set down passengers and to load or unload goods. Specific roads such as freeways are an exception. You should ask a police officer for permission if you wish to stop or park in a restricted area. If permission is granted, this overrides any restrictions that may exist. Remember, however, that permission can be withdrawn and you may be ordered to move on at any time. Casual traffic officers and traffic wardens are not empowered to authorise parking in a restricted area.
When a motor vehicle may be removed
Any motor vehicle that causes an obstruction to traffic or is parked in contravention of restrictions may be towed away to an official car pound. Similarly, any vehicle left unattended on a public road for seven days within an urban area and 24 hours outside an urban area may be regarded as abandoned and towed away.
Although vehicles are usually removed by the traffic department, in smaller towns the work may be contracted to a local garage and will be done under the supervision of a police officer.
When a motorist can be stopped
A uniformed police officer has the right to stop any vehicle at any time. Traffic wardens may not stop vehicles or otherwise regulate traffic; the authority of casual traffic officers is restricted to their duties at crossings. All motorists must stop when the 'stop' sign is swung across the roadway by a scholar patrol.
In all cases where you have been lawfully stopped, you must not drive on until you have been given permission to do so or have received a signal indicating that you can proceed.
Questions a motorist must answer
If you are stopped by the police, you are obliged to give your name and address, if required, and any other particulars concerning your identity. An inspector of licences also has the right to demand this information. You are entitled, however, to ask such a person, whether in uniform or not, for proof of identify.
A licence inspector, after having provided proof of identity, may demand the licence authorising you to drive a vehicle as well as information that may confirm your identity. If you are not the owner of the vehicle, the inspector may demand information leading to the identification of the owner. You can also be instructed to produce any document relevant to the registration or licensing of a motor vehicle.
PRODUCING A DRIVING LICENCE A police or traffic officer or an inspector of licences may demand to see a driving licence, which by law must be kept on the driver's person or in the vehicle. In some cases, the licence must be shown to a police officer at any police station within seven days.
ROADWORTHINESS A police or traffic officer may stop a vehicle and, if he or she is licensed to drive that class of vehicle, may drive it to ensure that it is roadworthy or for any other purpose relating to the execution of a duty. An inspector of licences may give notice in writing to the owner or any person in charge of a vehicle to produce the vehicle for inspection at a specified date and place.
Both a police officer and an examiner of vehicles may order that the use of a vehicle considered unroadworthy be discontinued immediately. They may, alternatively, specify that the vehicle may only be used for a limited period or to reach a specific destination. They are empowered to remove the clearance certificate (licence disc) from the windscreen.
ORDER TO DISCONTINUE A police officer may forbid a person who is mentally or physically incapable of controlling a vehicle from driving. The officer may also arrange for the safe parking or storage of the vehicle.
When police may search a vehicle
Any traffic officer or member of the South African Police Service may search any vehicle without a warrant. In certain circumstances an officer of the Department of Environmental Affairs may also search a vehicle. (See wildlife; police, powers of the; fishing.) An officer who searches a vehicle without a warrant should have reason to suspect it is carrying some item that may be used as evidenceI in proving the commission of a crime.
A motorist is normally entitled to stay in a vehicle, but should step out if asked. Failure to do so could lead to a charge of obstructing the police.
When a motorist can be arrested
Police have the power to arrest without a warrant any driver who:
Is believed to be unfit to drive as a result of consuming alcohol or drugs;
Has been seen driving dangerously, recklessly or carelessly;
Is wilfully obstructing the roadway;
Is suspected of driving while disqualified - that is, while his or her licence is cancelled;
Is suspected of having committed a crime or of being about to commit a crime.
Police powers regarding people caught in the act of committing an offence are wider than when the police act merely on the suspicion of someone having committed a crime. (See police, powers of the.)
Ordinary citizens must assist a peace officer to make an arrest if they are requested to do so. A peace officer who requires the use of a motor vehicle to make an arrest is empowered to commandeer one. The owner has the right to claim compensation for any damage caused, as well as for the use of the vehicle, from the employer of the officer who commandeered it, such as a provincial administration or local authority.
Powers of traffic wardens
Traffic wardens are not vested with the peace officer's powers of arrest. Like any other private individual, however, they may make a citizen's arrest. (See arrest.) Their duty is to prevent the infringement of parking regulations, and to issue spot-fine tickets where vehicles are illegally parked. Under normal circumstances, traffic wardens do not have the authority to act as traffic controllers.
http://www.legalcity.net/Index.cfm?fuseaction=RIGHTS.article&Index=T&ArticleID=2892148&Page=2
Anything thats against the law.
Yeah its not the law or wording but rather the mentality and intelect of the cops to interpret, understand and implement it correctly, the way its going they can shut our borders (build a big, long wall) lock us all in and call us inmates as laws to the letter makes all of us break at least one law everyday of our lives!
Phrases like "is believed to be" and "is suspected of" are very broad.
Yeah, exactly how a police state operates. Make everyone criminals and then just selectively enforce the law.
dlk001
Executive Member
Its time they do their jobs. I hope they do the same with the rest of criminals.
I hope they do too, the problem is they don't. I just hope the punishment is proportional to the crime. I don't think people making an illegal turn should spend the day in jail.
stoke
Honorary Master
Okay beeg zuma shower machinegun mouth ... HOW?
GougedEye
Expert Member
Yeah because that would work. You can already get the GPS co-ords of all known fixed camera's.
strange or clever? Would you prefer them to use the method that cost the most? Should they take the already overstretched Police force and dedicate more of them to traffic law enforcement, while reducing the available budget at the expense of other crimes? I can already see you howling at how the government is so stupid for not using a cost effective method that is the world wide standard. But then I suspect, you will be unhappy no matter what they do.
They locked them up until they posted bail.
I expect them to use the best method that keeps us safe rather than the best method for them to make money.
What price do you put on your life and your friends/family's lives?
Just take a look at our road death stats or just have a gander at how people drive on your way home. The truth is that our system of enforcement does bugger all at keeping people safe, but look at the revenue it generates. No wonder we haven't had any serious attempts to change it.
I suspect that you're an idiot - but what's the point of making stupid suspicions.
So to get back on topic eventually: this is not a move in the right direction to fix SA road conditions. It is just way too open for abuse and way too harsh.
GougedEye
Expert Member
and then immediately speeds up again. Complaining that they didn't warn you they were trapping at that point is daft. And it's utterly impractical to have a camera every kilometer on every road, at every robot and stop street etc.
So we'll just use our unlimited budget to hire another million or so traffic cops an put one at every intersection.
The idea behind the fines is you don't have to pay more taxes. You are actually complaining about them running the budget efficiently. At least i one area.
*sigh* Did IQs suddenly plunge this morning. Thats the freaking reason they are arresting people. Because they don't freakng pay the freaking fines. Now all you people are complaining that about them actually doing something proactive???You're assuming that I flout the laws of the road.
Yes thats the whole freaking point. You are complaining about the total disregard for law on the roads, and at the same time complaining that some people who do it got arrested and spent a couple of hours in the holding cells??? You have no sense of Irony do you?
No they are arresting anyone who breaks a traffic rule today. They are not basing the arrests on past unpaid tickets are even the number of past offenses. If today was the person's first or 1000th they are treated the same.
Have you no sense of comprehension? What we are saying is that spending a day in a South African jail cell with hardened criminals is disproportionate punishment for the supposed crime.
I don't think anyone here minds them taking proactive steps and I'm pretty sure there would be widespread support here for a points system etc... but this is not an appropriate solution to the problem.
GougedEye
Expert Member
Oh I'm an idiot now? Why? Because I fail to agree with you? Because I aplaud the police for actually doing something about the lawlessness on the roads? I see this more and more on these forums. Different opinions are not welcome. The howling mindless mob will not tolerate it.