Emigration....... Are people serious

[cguy]

Yes, the probabilities of being a victim of violent crime is less in other countries but its in no way not going to happen.

This is a very good reason to leave.

Yes, the probabilities of being a victim of violent crime is less in other countries but its in no way not going to happen.

This is a terrible reason to stay.

 

[zippy]

I am about to wrap up a three month stay in an impoverished nation. I have found that I miss humanity. I miss people who respect each other. People who are honest. People who are not sour, sullen, ugly sick fcks filled with hatred. Tomorrow, away from South Africa, I will have water interruptions for a couple weeks. I have spent much of my time away from SA with daily power cuts.

So no, I will not leave South Africa because of load shedding.

I will leave South Africa because I miss human decency.

(And no, I am not convinced true human decency ever existed in South Africa)

I never left SA because the things you list here. Or the ANC or load shedding. But what you describe is the reason I doubt I will ever return. Respect.

 

[zippy]

No I'm not, I'm only talking about certain areas. Parts of England are very depressing. Blackpool is a dump. And spizz was saying the same thing. Other parts are really beautiful though and I miss the countryside a lot.

I like living in the South East of England. I don't like London at all. I used to work for a week every month in Preston. Stayed in a Blackpool hotel. I rather enjoyed the taxi trips from the hotel in Blackpool to the Preston offices. The taxi drivers where real characters. But yes. I imagine living there would be crap

I find it funny that people seem to have this rather singular view of what it would be like living in another country.

 

[Pavan]

I like living in the South East of England. I don't like London at all.

I find living in London is amazing. This summer has been pretty awesome too. The winter is nowhere as bad as some make it out to be.

 

[zippy]

I find living in London is amazing. This summer has been pretty awesome too. The winter is nowhere as bad as some make it out to be.

I went up to London last Saturday. Hated it. that's London done for me another 2 years. Much better further south yes. Winters are nowhere near what people think they are. I guess people think the weather in Inverness is typical British weather

 

[SoulTax]

Years ago a South African couple left for London citing the fear of their daughters safety in SA. Sadly they had just started to settle down when their daughter was murdered in London. The devastated father warned parents that the dangers they fled are just as real in other countries.

Sad story!

The reality though, is that London is a cramped, very multicultural city. London/Birmingham/Manchester/ETC... are not "UK" cities anymore. Moving to London and expecting to be as safe as the UK boasts that you will be, is just not realistic. If you move to the UK for safety, you move at least 1 hour away from those city districts. Hell the cost of rent in London can be easily offset by commuting on the train for an hour every day if you live outside of it. (And are forced to take work in the city)

Facts are that this family were extremely unlucky. Statistically speaking, he made the right move. It might not be any consolation to him after losing his daughter, but he made the right choice with the statistical information that he had.


It is the one thing that I have said to everyone that asks me about my move to the UK.

If I stayed in SA to raise a family (Knowing that I have a UK passport and the move would be easy for me) and my child were to be a victim of violent crime. It would utterly break me. The guilt of inaction would be too heavy to bear. (Because statistically speaking, the likelihood is many time higher in SA)
However, moving to the UK, and into a relatively safe area of the country. Should something ever happen to my family, I would be devastated at the Loss, but not the guilt. Psychologically I might be able to recover from the loss, but the guilt would end me.

 

[SoulTax]

I went up to London last Saturday. Hated it. that's London done for me another 2 years. Much better further south yes. Winters are nowhere near what people think they are. I guess people think the weather in Inverness is typical British weather

I haven't seen snow in 2 years of winter (2013/2014 and 2014/2015). Well maybe one overnight snow that melted by the time we woke up. Middle of winter I took my son for an hour and a half walk around my area of fields and houses, about 5 out of 7 days per week. Usually twice a day. Hardly ever kept in by rain or snow.

I also only end up wearing a short sleeve shirt with my coat over the top. Not layers and layers like you tend to do in SA with really cold weather. The house never dips under 21C either. Sleeping in boxer shorts with only a duvet all year round is pretty nice too.

 

[cguy]

Moving to London and expecting to be as safe as the UK boasts that you will be, is just not realistic. If you move to the UK for safety, you move at least 1 hour away from those city districts.

Even in the city districts, it is much safer. In the context of Glasgow being the most dangerous rgion in the UK:
"In 2012 there were 2.7 homicides per 100,000 people in Glasgow. This compared to a 1.67 per 100,000 in London and a rate of 1.0 across the UK as a whole."

Compared to Cape Town, which appears to have been 60 per 100000 in 2014.

 

[Paperweight]

Just remember the ones who go loudly always crawl back quietly once they realise 1) missing family is a thing 2) you get less with the same amount of money overseas

 

[cerebus]

Just remember the ones who go loudly always crawl back quietly once they realise 1) missing family is a thing 2) you get less with the same amount of money overseas

1) my family is in the US, but my wife will miss her parents.
2) I'm not sure how true that is. Prices in the States are cheaper in real terms than here for most things.

 

[Kilgore_Trout_Redux]

+1

My mom has had the luxury of travelling the world and already told me 20 years back look to Asia. A good mate has just gone to Thailand and enjoying it.

How do people get around the language barrier? Is that a major issue? I have always been of the opinion that to immigrate successfully you need to integrate completely with the culture and lifestyle of your destination or you will always be a foreigner. It seems that would be hard in Asia.

 

[Kilgore_Trout_Redux]

2) you get less with the same amount of money overseas

This is changing. South Africa is becoming more expensive than the rest of the world.

From what I understand about Australia is that is a middle class country with a very small income disparity. If you are a rich, status conscious person then yes, it is going to chafe when you adopt a middle class life and can't afford two German luxury cars, a gardner and a maid.

For people who every month feel like they are going backwards economically like us because of electricity, schooling, medical aid, living expense increases which are spiralling out of control it is less of an issue.

Having said that, a decent education on par with the best model C schools here is close to free (You are encouraged to pay an optional Aus$100 a term though.).

You don't need to pay for medical aid because world class medical care is covered by your taxes.

 

[cguy]

2) you get less with the same amount of money overseas

Only relevant if you're not paid more. Most people do get paid more - many will afford a far better lifestyle, and those that don't still get the risk reductions.

 

[poffle]

1) missing family is a thing 2) you get less with the same amount of money overseas

1) Yes this is real, but visit them or get them to visit you.
2) Bull****. I earned 5k less in Thailand and lived a far healthier and "wealthy" lifestyle.
Now i am earning the same as I was in SA and i can afford a fully furnished 3 bedroom apartment 50meters from the beach (R4,000 per month). Find a place for less than R5k in SA that is not the size of a shoe box.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

From Jo'burg by any chance?

It's rare for anyone from the WC to want to leave.

Chasing new opportunities yes, but "escaping" no.

Jo'burg and other places people seem to want to flee daily. It's like a different country.

In fact I know plenty of internationals that have moved HERE in the last five years with permanent residency and all.

Brits, Germans, Americans, Brazilians and of course Asians.

Nope, not JHB.

And my reasons aren't only about 'escaping', but more about being a global citizen. Plenty of places to see and experience.

And it's telling that no one has yet really answered my question about what makes SA fscking awesome, apart from beer goggles and a vague praise of the weather.

Funny that even those lists about what Saffers can be proud of always list things that have nothing to do with the humans that live here, i.e. nature.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Aaah okay if it's about seeing the world that's a whole different motivation to most.

 

[SoulTax]

Even in the city districts, it is much safer. In the context of Glasgow being the most dangerous rgion in the UK:
"In 2012 there were 2.7 homicides per 100,000 people in Glasgow. This compared to a 1.67 per 100,000 in London and a rate of 1.0 across the UK as a whole."

Compared to Cape Town, which appears to have been 60 per 100000 in 2014.

Yes, I totally agree that it is still statistically safer than SA. I am just pointing out that people cannot base their idea of how safe UK living is, from living in the large cities. You have to be in one of the smaller cities or large towns to really start to feel the safety that you expect from the UK.

 

[SoulTax]

Just remember the ones who go loudly always crawl back quietly once they realise 1) missing family is a thing 2) you get less with the same amount of money overseas

But you don't earn the same amount of money. Sure a cup of coffee at the shops costs me the equivalent of like 30 or 40 Rand. But honestly a £1.50 to £2 cup of coffee feels like nothing when you are earning in pounds. I go out for £20/£30/£40 dinners all of the time. I would hardly ever have thought to go out for a R400 - R800 dinner for two in SA, just on the whim.

 

[Jim West]

[...] 2) I'm not sure how true that is. Prices in the States are cheaper in real terms than here for most things.

Depends where one lives stateside. From personal experience, compared to Johannesburg, cost of living is somewhat lower in Tucson but much higher in Seattle.

 

[Nanfeishen]

How do people get around the language barrier? Is that a major issue? I have always been of the opinion that to immigrate successfully you need to integrate completely with the culture and lifestyle of your destination or you will always be a foreigner. It seems that would be hard in Asia.

Its a mindset, coming from Africa with its diversity of cultures, language and the demographics of race , its probabily easier as we are exposed to that diversity on a daily basis.
While i havent lived in Asia, i have travelled there on numerous occasions, and i must admit i felt more comfortabe and more at home as a minority, than i expected.
Most people have rudimentary english , no different to many in S.A or other parts of Africa, so its not difficult.