EWC: push back: have your say

thestaggy said:
Wrong. Venezuela's policies are to blame.

With the global spike in the price of oil in the early 2000s, Venezuela went on a massive public spending spree, placing the government at the centre of economic activity (sound familiar?). When the oil price collapsed in 2013, so too did the Venezuelan economy. Classic case of Dutch disease. They were over-reliant on oil and government participation in the economy, so when oil collapsed the government was no longer able to spend the way it had and the underdeveloped and damaged (through their own actions) economy was left exposed and could not pick up the massive public overspending.

Under Chavez, Venezuela also imposed price controls on basic food goods that led to decreased production (price caps meant farmers would run at losses so they cut production) and subsequent food shortages. In response, Venzuela implemented expropriation without compensation, using the military to forcibly seize farm land. Land was distributed to party officials who, surprise surpise, didn't know the first thing about farming and you can guess what happened next. Venezuela's food sovereignty was compromised.

A wave of nationalisation between 2007 - 2009 across various industries saw a drastic decrease in production and economic activity. You want to hear something fun? They nationalised the previously privately-owned and largest electricity producer in the country and within a few years the grid started collapsing.

en.wikipedia.org

Economic policy of the Hugo Chávez administration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Venezualan crisis started in 2010, sanctions against the country started in 2019. Venezuela spent and nationalised itself in to oblivion, the same as Zimbabwe and exactly what the ANC will to do here.

If anybody had a brain within the ANC, Venezuela would be a massive warning sign that the policies they are pursuing are doomed to fail.
Click to expand...
You may well be right. It's just funny how around here the only country to actually be affected by sanctions was apartheid SA. Lol.
 
vigras rojara said:
You may well be right. It's just funny how around here the only country to actually be affected by sanctions was apartheid SA. Lol.
Click to expand...

The timeline doesn't lie.

The Obama administration initiated targeted sanctions against individuals, not the country itself and this was mostly in response to drug trafficking as government officials - including Chavez - had ties to various organisations involved in the drug trade. By the time Trump came in to office, they were 6-years in to their economic meltdown and 3-years removed from the global collapse in oil price that crippled Venezuela.

The Bolivarian Revolution is why Venezuela is the way it is and it was all self-inflicted. Corrupt populists at the center of the economy, what could go wrong? Grab some popcorn and watch the ANC do the exact same thing and then turn around and blame the west.
 
vigras rojara said:
You may well be right. It's just funny how around here the only country to actually be affected by sanctions was apartheid SA. Lol.
Click to expand...
Funny how apartheid SA still gave us a functional country with functional infrastructure and how the democratic SA has destroyed it in 25 years.

More funny how Venezuela is softly embracing capitalism.

Bankrupted by Socialism, Venezuela Cedes Control of Companies

Saddled with hundreds of failed state companies in an economy barreling over a cliff, the Venezuelan government is abandoning socialist doctrine by offloading key enterprises to private investors, offering profit in exchange for a share of revenue or products.
Click to expand...
 
Vrotappel said:
Funny how apartheid SA still gave us a functional country with functional infrastructure and how the democratic SA has destroyed it in 25 years.

More funny how Venezuela is softly embracing capitalism.
Click to expand...
I wasn't defending Venezuela's economic policies.

I was just having a laugh at how apartheid SA was totally brought down by sanctions but sanctions have no effect on any other country at all.

Glad you had the opportunity to think back fondly on the good old days though.
 
thestaggy said:
Wrong. Venezuela's policies are to blame.

With the global spike in the price of oil in the early 2000s, Venezuela went on a massive public spending spree, placing the government at the centre of economic activity (sound familiar?). When the oil price collapsed in 2013, so too did the Venezuelan economy. Classic case of Dutch disease. They were over-reliant on oil and government participation in the economy, so when oil collapsed the government was no longer able to spend the way it had and the underdeveloped and damaged (through their own actions) economy was left exposed and could not pick up the massive public overspending.

Under Chavez, Venezuela also imposed price controls on basic food goods that led to decreased production (price caps meant farmers would run at losses so they cut production) and subsequent food shortages. In response, Venzuela implemented expropriation without compensation, using the military to forcibly seize farm land. Land was distributed to party officials who, surprise surpise, didn't know the first thing about farming and you can guess what happened next. Venezuela's food sovereignty was compromised.

A wave of nationalisation between 2007 - 2009 across various industries saw a drastic decrease in production and economic activity. You want to hear something fun? They nationalised the previously privately-owned and largest electricity producer in the country and within a few years the grid started collapsing.

en.wikipedia.org

Economic policy of the Hugo Chávez administration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Venezualan crisis started in 2010, sanctions against the country started in 2019. Venezuela spent and nationalised itself in to oblivion, the same as Zimbabwe and exactly what the ANC will to do here.

If anybody had a brain within the ANC, Venezuela would be a massive warning sign that the policies they are pursuing are doomed to fail.
Click to expand...

My post was meant to be very sarcastic. Obviously it wasn't sanctions
 
Vrotappel said:
That excuse has lost its shine. I see they are now trying to go back to private property rights after destroying the country.
Click to expand...
It never had any shine, was always a bullshit excuse
 
thestaggy said:
Wrong. Venezuela's policies are to blame.

With the global spike in the price of oil in the early 2000s, Venezuela went on a massive public spending spree, placing the government at the centre of economic activity (sound familiar?). When the oil price collapsed in 2013, so too did the Venezuelan economy. Classic case of Dutch disease. They were over-reliant on oil and government participation in the economy, so when oil collapsed the government was no longer able to spend the way it had and the underdeveloped and damaged (through their own actions) economy was left exposed and could not pick up the massive public overspending.

Under Chavez, Venezuela also imposed price controls on basic food goods that led to decreased production (price caps meant farmers would run at losses so they cut production) and subsequent food shortages. In response, Venzuela implemented expropriation without compensation, using the military to forcibly seize farm land. Land was distributed to party officials who, surprise surpise, didn't know the first thing about farming and you can guess what happened next. Venezuela's food sovereignty was compromised.

A wave of nationalisation between 2007 - 2009 across various industries saw a drastic decrease in production and economic activity. You want to hear something fun? They nationalised the previously privately-owned and largest electricity producer in the country and within a few years the grid started collapsing.

en.wikipedia.org

Economic policy of the Hugo Chávez administration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Venezualan crisis started in 2010, sanctions against the country started in 2019. Venezuela spent and nationalised itself in to oblivion, the same as Zimbabwe and exactly what the ANC will to do here.

If anybody had a brain within the ANC, Venezuela would be a massive warning sign that the policies they are pursuing are doomed to fail.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Some interesting info that I hadn't heard before.

What I did disagree with is the UK holding onto Venezuela's gold. That is pretty well the same as stealing. Venezuela's government was it's own worst enemy but that shouldn't mean that you get to keep its gold.
 
The outcome of EWC will be a tanked economy, and zero investment, Food prices will go through the roof, and there will be a mass migration of the last of us with the money to do so.
If this law was passed today, I'd give SA 3 to 5 years max before it's totally destroyed. Why are we allowing this to happen? WHY?
 
some push back is good, and welcome, I mean we all here bleating about Zim, but in Zim,
when they stole White Farms, did anybody inside Zim complain?

although, dear sa, are basically trying to move a landfill with a teaspoon.
ANC doesn't consider challenges, they railroad through laws, because they know they cannot lose.

not like they will actually get voted out. like any sane "Western imperialist" Democracy.

The ANC CANNOT lose, its simply impossible.
so they have enough confidence to do whatever they like, whenever they like.

Raise taxes, Etolls, EWC, load shedding, Crime, corruption, incompetence.

all of that stems from the ANC's confidence they cant lose an election,
and them doing whatever they bloody well like.
 
SoldierMan said:
If this is implemented I wonder what effect is will have on the Rand and markets.

The government is trying to put glitter on a turd and sell it to the international community as "lawful" I wonder if the world will buy what the ANC is selling. Bottom line is it is government sanctioned stealing wrapped up in a bow.
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Packaging is everything.
How many times have you tried something presented in attractive packaging and found it to be repulsive once removed from packaging and tested
 
eg2505 said:
some push back is good, and welcome, I mean we all here bleating about Zim, but in Zim,
when they stole White Farms, did anybody inside Zim complain?

although, dear sa, are basically trying to move a landfill with a teaspoon.
ANC doesn't consider challenges, they railroad through laws, because they know they cannot lose.

not like they will actually get voted out. like any sane "Western imperialist" Democracy.

The ANC CANNOT lose, its simply impossible.
so they have enough confidence to do whatever they like, whenever they like.

Raise taxes, Etolls, EWC, load shedding, Crime, corruption, incompetence.

all of that stems from the ANC's confidence they cant lose an election,
and them doing whatever they bloody well like.
Click to expand...

Well ANC is going to rule till jesus comes. Their voters are ok with the corruption... as long as the struggle heroes have fun.
 
TelkomUseless said:
Well ANC is going to rule till jesus comes. Their voters are ok with the corruption... as long as the struggle heroes have fun.
Click to expand...
your right about that,

and that boys and Girls

is why Africa will never succeed and raise itself out of the weeds.
we will forever be the dumping ground of the world,
 
Grant said:
Packaging is everything.
How many times have you tried something presented in attractive packaging and found it to be repulsive once removed from packaging and tested
Click to expand...

Yeah but will the international community actually fall for the ANC's packaging or will it in fact be a subtle sanction of their actions, like happened with Mugabe and his slaughter during the 80's. Does the ANC still hold the darling boys status it once had or will their actions actually be judged.
 
Captain Underpants said:
The outcome of EWC will be a tanked economy, and zero investment, Food prices will go through the roof, and there will be a mass migration of the last of us with the money to do so.
If this law was passed today, I'd give SA 3 to 5 years max before it's totally destroyed. Why are we allowing this to happen? WHY?
Click to expand...

Many can't leave. Some is staying in solidarity with family and friends. Government can expect armed resistance from those who cannot go, have nowehere to flee to and is trapped in SA with their backs to the wall, trying to protect the only properties they ever worked for, bought with their hard-earned money. If government think they will forcefully be doing this, we can expect loss of life on both sides of the fence, as this will not be a typical Zimbabwe incident. Internationally, the bloodshed will not be ignored. So, interesting times ahead.
 
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