Exotic Animals

[w1z4rd]

Yep. The only way seems to be to keep it illegally, and I'm not going to flout the law on this one.

That said, most sources say that they are terrible pets - jealous, mark their territory (and owner/keeper), prone to bite guests... I would still like to have one, though.

Nature conservation bought a rescued one to my friends park. We had it there for a couple of days. It made a cool companion but needs to be with a group (they are social). They do make terrible house pets. They will also randomly attack strangers. They form communal bonds with their owners, and will attack people to "protect" you. When they attack they go full retard.

View attachment 97619

I took this picture when nature conservation came to move him to his new colony. Apparently he has to be introduced slowly so the new colony does not kill him. He was not not happy about been in a cat cage

 

[JerryMungo]

We are not allowed those here in the eastern cape. Apparently we have a local species here in the Eastern Cape and until ecological impact studies have been done. You can not get a permitted hedgehog here. That does not stop hundreds of them been sold on gumtree :/

Personally I do not deal with anything that could piss of nature conservation. I have a very good relationship with them and would prefer to keep it that way.

Gumtree nothing - they were advertising them at the pet shop in Beacon Bay - at the top of batting Rd (Sherwood house area). This was about 6 months ago.
Agree with keeping your nose clean... they're just so inefficient though, which doesn't help the illegal trade. I couldn't get permits for two red-tails that a friend brought from Freestate with him when he moved to EL. Tried for some time. It also took them ages to get us a permit for a cycad that was in our yard when we moved in (local species).

 

[w1z4rd]

Gumtree nothing - they were advertising them at the pet shop in Beacon Bay - at the top of batting Rd (Sherwood house area). This was about 6 months ago.
Agree with keeping your nose clean... they're just so inefficient though, which doesn't help the illegal trade. I couldn't get permits for two red-tails that a friend brought from Freestate with him when he moved to EL. Tried for some time. It also took them ages to get us a permit for a cycad that was in our yard when we moved in (local species).

Normally the stuff they can permit they do so really quickly. I had my imperator boa licensed in two days. Most of my permits arrive in two days. Normally it takes 2-5 days for the animals I permit. Well at least this is my experience, but I have been out the industry for a while, so perhaps this is only recent developments or only with certain animals.

The people in Durban are so lucky. They can get any snake and most animals with no permits whatsoever. For once the Eastern Cape is efficient at something and its more a hindrance

The one chap I spoke to at nature conservation about the hedgehogs says they know many are been kept in town. Its just not a priority of theirs. Now this is really good news for the average person who wants to own one, but not good news for someone like me who has a larger collection and who expect naturecon to come knocking on the door.

 

[JerryMungo]

Normally the stuff they can permit they do so really quickly. I had my imperator boa licensed in two days. Most of my permits arrive in two days. Normally it takes 2-5 days for the animals I permit. Well at least this is my experience, but I have been out the industry for a while, so perhaps this is only recent developments or only with certain animals.

The people in Durban are so lucky. They can get any snake and most animals with no permits whatsoever. For once the Eastern Cape is efficient at something and its more a hindrance

The one chap I spoke to at nature conservation about the hedgehogs says they know many are been kept in town. Its just not a priority of theirs. Now this is really good news for the average person who wants to own one, but not good news for someone like me who has a larger collection and who expect naturecon to come knocking on the door.

Oh, it's possible they've jacked themselves up. Also, I might have been asking something outside of the parameters since the snakes were already in the province (though they were acquired in another province)... sometimes it's just that kind of unusual circumstance that puts a spanner in the works. Durbs is totally lucky. I bought my first rat snake from Fitzsimons park in about 84... easiest purchase ever... then there was the smuggling it on the plane home lol. It was in my top shirt pocket until I boarded - after that I put it in my kit bag on the plane lol.

I still have the invoice for the snake in my copy of Broadley's book (Fitzsimons snakes of southern africa)... I think it was R50 back then!

 

[JerryMungo]

 

[BCO]

They are normally bred in captivity. Wanna know what is also uncool? Dog fights and dog farm breeding. Do you see me blaming dog breeders and dog owners for that? You get siff people in all trades. The exotic animal trade is no exception.

My opinion is that breeding animals as commodities is almost always a bad thing. It's often easy to blame "disreputable" breeders, but how do you really know? In the case of more common companion animals, why support breeders at all when there are so many animals in line to be euthanized at shelters that could do with homes?

*edit* as an aside, what do you have against dog fighting?

 

[w1z4rd]

My opinion is that breeding animals as commodities is almost always a bad thing. It's often easy to blame "disreputable" breeders, but how do you really know?

I sit on the committee of a breeders association that works with nature con catching the bad breeders. I know. We are highly self regulated and have hectic standards. If I even want to move a snake between two properties I have to apply for a transport permit or get kicked out the association. We report back boot breeders and unlicensed or badly cared for animals. We also work with nature conservation in helping endangered species. We have just been asked to breed a local species of Eastern Cape adder. Its so rare its only found in one spot in the world. In the limestone caves where PVC cement (not sure on the name) mines their lime for cement.

Now we have two choices, breed the species for long term survival or let them become extinct. The entire habitat range of these animals is on this cement companies lands. Theyre going to mine the limestone no matter what. They have given us permission to try catch some of the animals so we can breed them in captivity to ensure their survival. This is a unique situation in so far as we cant return the animals to the wild. Their habitat is going to be completely destroyed. So what do we do? Breed them so they survive or let them go extinct?

Its not breeders that are threatening the species, its normal human encroachment. The breeders are the only chance for many of these animals to survive.

In the case of more common companion animals, why support breeders at all when there are so many animals in line to be euthanized at shelters that could do with homes?

Space? Ive already got dogs and cats. I cant get more in the space I have. Also, not everyone wants a dog or a cat. Just like not everyone likes cats, not everyone likes snakes (though more people like cats).

*edit* as an aside, what do you have against dog fighting?

The animal is put through violent pain... Was this a real question?

 

[w1z4rd]

These are my favorite animals. Theyre Ball Pythons (you can see in the pictures how they get their name)

This is the male... he is very shy:

We call him Tickles

This is the female... she is aggressive and likes to dominate the male.

We call her Tess

If you wanna know how we came up with their names.... Well, theyre Ball Pythons.... TessTickles

Both are Captive Bred.

 

[JerryMungo]

Those are gorgeous balls Ghoti! The female is pretty spectacular.

I'm a fan of Morelia viridis but I'm not likely to be getting one any time soon.
What's not to like about these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Green_Tree_Python_Coiled_Around_a_Branch.jpg
http://www.ameyzoo.co.uk/images/cSImages/GTP3.png

If I get another snake, it'll probaly be a blue beauty / taiwanese beauty.

 

[Dean]

Please start a dedicated snake thread.. I'm keen to stay subscribed for exotic animals but the disproportional amount of snake convo is offputting.

Thanks folks

 

[w1z4rd]

Those are gorgeous balls Ghoti!

Out of context that could come across as bad

The female is pretty spectacular.

I'm a fan of Morelia viridis but I'm not likely to be getting one any time soon.
What's not to like about these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Green_Tree_Python_Coiled_Around_a_Branch.jpg
http://www.ameyzoo.co.uk/images/cSImages/GTP3.png

If I get another snake, it'll probaly be a blue beauty / taiwanese beauty.

There are Green Tree Pythons for sale at Apex Predator Park in the EC. They are stunning animals. I might get a breeding pair next year, but right now the R5000 price tag is a little hectic for me They got two little yellow hatchlings at Apex. They are truly magnificent creatures.

I think my next expensive buy will be the rhinoceros ratsnakes (Rhynchophis boulengeri). I can get them at R2000 each.

 

[JerryMungo]

Out of context that could come across as bad

Grief lol, I walked right into that one hahaha!

There are Green Tree Pythons for sale at Apex Predator Park in the EC. They are stunning animals. I might get a breeding pair next year, but right now the R5000 price tag is a little hectic for me They got two little yellow hatchlings at Apex. They are truly magnificent creatures.

They are indeed - I just wish they'd stay yellow - My trouble is I want four - yellow, red , green and blue... yep, they come in blue!

They are such stunning snakes. Just a little aggro.. and with serious teeth.

I think my next expensive buy will be the rhinoceros ratsnakes (Rhynchophis boulengeri). I can get them at R2000 each.

Those rhinocerous rats are very cool... remind me of a vine snake with that funky head.

 

[JerryMungo]

Please start a dedicated snake thread.. I'm keen to stay subscribed for exotic animals but the disproportional amount of snake convo is offputting.

Thanks folks

Feel free to add conversation. I'm sure it'll change over time. No point in letting the thread die because snakes are the current topic IMO.

Talking of other animals... does anyone do freshwater or saltwater fish? I'm not such a fan of exotic salties since they are very seldom captive bred and go through hell to get to the pet shop with many unnecessary deaths. I don't have an issue with locally captured tropicals here in EL since they are mostly at the mercy of the elements being brought in by the warm Mozambique and stranded in our rock pools...

As for freshwater fish, the guy who runs the pool shop in Vincent has an awesome Arapama... it's a monster - in the aquarium under his counter. They are stunning fish...

If I ever get to Guyana again, I'd love to take a weekend out to do some sort of river / amazon outing... nothing like seeing these things in their natural habitat.

Ghoti - do you know if anyone in town has Chameleons?

 

[Roxi_B4b3]

@iaywtimnbe, I keep freshwater fish. I have a malawi cichlid tank set up and a few planted tanks.

I always wanted a marine tank until I saw how bad this trade is on the environment. The fish go through hell, and the only place you can get corals is out of the wild. The marine hobby is destroying coral reefs across the world

 

[Hemi300c]

@iaywtimnbe, I keep freshwater fish. I have a malawi cichlid tank set up and a few planted tanks.

I always wanted a marine tank until I saw how bad this trade is on the environment. The fish go through hell, and the only place you can get corals is out of the wild. The marine hobby is destroying coral reefs across the world

Not everyone is destroying the environment.
There are 1000's alone in SA that are saving the reefs by breeding fish and propagation of corals etc.

Yes there are marine keepers and plenty pet shops not doing any good but the true marine hobbyist and reef keepers are slowly but surely closing them down.

Technology is also gaining ground and assisting with the environment provided so as to be able to trade amongst hobbyists instead of raping the reefs.

I was heavily involved and gave up by selling off my tank and equipment including corals, invertebrates and fish for almost R120 000.

Visit and study SAREEFING.COM and marineaquariumsa.com and see for yourself the efforts the few thousand hobbyists are going to to preserve and save the marine life.

Sure there are idiots out there but there always will be.

 

[BCO]

I sit on the committee of a breeders association that works with nature con catching the bad breeders. I know. We are highly self regulated and have hectic standards. If I even want to move a snake between two properties I have to apply for a transport permit or get kicked out the association. We report back boot breeders and unlicensed or badly cared for animals. We also work with nature conservation in helping endangered species. We have just been asked to breed a local species of Eastern Cape adder. Its so rare its only found in one spot in the world. In the limestone caves where PVC cement (not sure on the name) mines their lime for cement.

Now we have two choices, breed the species for long term survival or let them become extinct. The entire habitat range of these animals is on this cement companies lands. Theyre going to mine the limestone no matter what. They have given us permission to try catch some of the animals so we can breed them in captivity to ensure their survival. This is a unique situation in so far as we cant return the animals to the wild. Their habitat is going to be completely destroyed. So what do we do? Breed them so they survive or let them go extinct?

Its not breeders that are threatening the species, its normal human encroachment. The breeders are the only chance for many of these animals to survive.

Makes sense. Is setting up reserves/protected land where they can roam relatively free not a third option (maybe not in the case of the adder you mentioned above, but for lots of other species)?

Space? Ive already got dogs and cats. I cant get more in the space I have. Also, not everyone wants a dog or a cat. Just like not everyone likes cats, not everyone likes snakes (though more people like cats).

I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that there isn't really any reason to support dog/cat breeders due to the massive number of abandoned dogs and cats that need homes.

The animal is put through violent pain... Was this a real question?

Dog fighting dogs are put through violent pain for the pleasure and amusement of humans. If you're not eating meat literally for survival, then it's solely for your gustatory pleasure and/or convenience. Animals live and die in violent pain for this too. Seems like a bit of a double standard to be anti-dog fighting but pro meat eating.

 

[w1z4rd]

Dog fighting dogs are put through violent pain for the pleasure and amusement of humans. If you're not eating meat literally for survival, then it's solely for your gustatory pleasure and/or convenience. Animals live and die in violent pain for this too. Seems like a bit of a double standard to be anti-dog fighting but pro meat eating.

Thats a pretty strange opinion I dont subscribe to at all. That seems more like False equivalence (logical fallacy), than a logical point.

People take joy in seeing the violence and pain caused in a dog fights. I dont take any joy in hurting animals or seeing them suffer. I do enjoy the substinance they offer me, but I certainly dont take joy or enjoy their suffering.

 

[BCO]

Thats a pretty strange opinion I dont subscribe to at all. That seems more like False equivalence (logical fallacy), than a logical point.

People take joy in seeing the violence and pain caused in a dog fights. I dont take any joy in hurting animals or seeing them suffer. I do enjoy the substinance they offer me, but I certainly dont take joy or enjoy their suffering.

You don't require their flesh to survive. There is no way you could claim that you need meat as a middle class South African to survive. If you're not eating meat for survival, what are you eating it for?

 

[w1z4rd]

You don't require their flesh to survive. There is no way you could claim that you need meat as a middle class South African to survive. If you're not eating meat for survival, what are you eating it for?

Im going to take the advice of my doctors and health experts around me and continue to eat a well balanced diet. I also understand the important roll meat has played in our human evolution and I hold ALL life sacred. Not just plants, not just the animals . All. I am thankful for the nutrition that any living entity provides me. Be it a plant of an animal. I also understand wild animals very well, Im not confused by the Disneyfication of animals. I know that when I die one day, other animals are going to eat me.

I thought this was funny, was literally just posted on my feed If you are looking for a fight about meat vs not meat, Im not interested in another herbivore vs omnivore debate. This seems like a terrible thread for it, why not start another thread specifically dealing with this issue so other people can join in



<hyperbole> Could I also request that you stop washing so regularly. You have millions of life forms on you that die every time you take a bath, and you dont need to wash every day to survive. </hyperbole>

Do you own a cat BCO?

 

[BCO]

So wait, do you want to discuss this in another thread, or do you not want to discuss it at all? Also, hilarious joke with the broccoli, haven't seen that one before.