Exotic Animals

Friends with Arno?

Yup, he is the authority on reptiles in SA :D He just saved the corn snake! :D

I don't know anything about exotic reptiles, so I can't comment. But I am totally opposed to the keeping of exotic mammals as pets due to the prevalence of backyard breeders, unethical breeding practices, owner neglect, unsuitable habitats, animal trafficking, etc.
I also have a problem with birds in capitivity, but I don't feel like getting into an argument about it.

The single biggest threat to these exotic animals are not the poachers, the trafficking, buying or selling... or any of that. If anything, those people increase the numbers of that animal. Its people like you. That continue to breed and take away their habitat. If it was not due to captive breeding programs there are a whole lot of animals that would be extinct now. Like it or not, those habitats are going to disappear. People will continue to breed and take away the space they live in. For thousands of species, their only chance of long term survival is captive breeding programs.

If you can provide a suitable habitat for any animal, one where the animal is happy and comfortable and well cared for.... you should be allowed to keep any animal you show you can look after well.

PS, if you ever find a backyard breeder who has sloths, please let me know :)

Thankfully also banned in SA. Cute, but if released will cause havoc amongst indigenous mongoose populations.

Could you link to the environmental impact study that says they would do that please. I understand they could be invasive, but would like evidence they would impact the mongoose population.

Often unethically... "junkmail" pets :mad:

Well I know the ancestors of rhino rat snake were saved from a Vietnamese meat market by a concerned private captive breeder. Again, the problem is not the breeders, traders or sellers, but normal people doing their thing.
 
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The single biggest threat to these exotic animals are not the poachers, the trafficking, buying or selling... or any of that. If anything, those people increase the numbers of that animal. Its people like you. That continue to breed and take away their habitat. If it was not due to captive breeding programs there are a whole lot of animals that would be extinct now. Like it or not, those habitats are going to disappear. People will continue to breed and take away the space they live in. For thousands of species, their only chance of long term survival is captive breeding programs.

If you can provide a suitable habitat for any animal, one where the animal is happy and comfortable and well cared for.... you should be allowed to keep any animal you show you can look after well.

.
What on earth are you talking about? What breeding have I done and what environment have I taken away? I assume you live in a ethereal space and have no carbon footprint?
It is all very well to bleat about private breeders saving the planet. But how many private breeders breed to save a species? Mmm? More likely to get loads of bucks as you bragged about earlier. Puh-lease.
 
I want a meerkat, but it seems impossible to get a permit in Gauteng.

Just be aware of their needs...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2732173/Meerkats-trendy-pets-not-cute-look.html

Cuddly pets? No, meerkats are savage little home wreckers: Thanks to THAT ad, meerkats have become trendy pets. But as these owners reveal, they're not as cute as they look...
By JILL FOSTER FOR THE DAILY MAIL
PUBLISHED: 21:04 GMT, 22 August 2014 | UPDATED: 21:04 GMT, 22 August 2014

Bedtime in Kimmy Rudland’s house is a hectic affair. When the 27-year-old from Ipswich slides under her duvet, she allows her pet meerkats Lawrence and Lola to join her for a cuddle and catch up on a bit of TV before they turn in.
Reclining against her linen sheets, or standing transfixed in front of a cartoon, their native African desert seems a very long way away.
For Kimmy, who lives with parents Debbie and Mark, it’s always a special time.
Kimmy Rudland, pictured, with her pet meerkats Lola and Lawrence love watching THAT ad on television
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Kimmy Rudland, pictured, with her pet meerkats Lola and Lawrence love watching THAT ad on television
‘Lola enjoys cuddling up with me but Lawrence is usually dashing all over the place playing with tassels on clothes or curtains and digging holes in the cushions and carpets. He tips the bin over as meerkats are very food-orientated and he runs out of the door when you open it. He’s very mischievous.
‘Their favourite programmes are anything to do with animals. They love watching Crufts and cartoons. But Lawrence hates anything with a jingle and will run off if he hears one. He saw the comparethemarket.com advert for the first time recently and was terrified. But they both seem fascinated by the little baby meerkat Oleg.’

More...
Having their collar felt! Policeman rounds up nine escaped puppies and takes them home in his squad car
Otter aerobics! Large group spotted going through their paces with some synchronised exercise
The irony is not lost on Kimmy. The insurance advert featuring Aleksandr Orlov, the Russian meerkat puppet, is responsible for one of the most successful — some might argue annoying — marketing campaigns of all time.
Since hitting TV screens in January 2009, Aleksandr and his six relatives have featured in 25 commercials. The latest one stars the impossibly cute baby meerkat Oleg on safari in Africa.
No one could have guessed that a cravat-wearing furry mammal would strike such a chord with the public, but Aleksandr’s popularity has seen the company’s fortunes soar.
Since the meerkats’ arrival, the website has grown by over 700 per cent and owner Douw Steyn has more than doubled his wealth to over £420 million. The advert’s irritating catchphrase ‘Simples’ was even included in the Collins English Dictionary in 2010.
An offshoot website — comparethemeerkat.com — was created featuring blogs, diaries and photos of the meerkat family. Aleksandr has over 67,000 followers on Twitter and over 800,000 people have ‘liked’ his page on Facebook. Meanwhile, more than four million meerkat toys have been collected by consumers who use the website. In short, it’s a marketing phenomenon.
Ailisha Wade, with her pet Meerkat 'Mucky' at their home in Wythenshawe in Greater Manchester
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Ailisha Wade, with her pet Meerkat 'Mucky' at their home in Wythenshawe in Greater Manchester
Yet a disturbing trend has emerged as a result. Captivated by the cute puppets, more and more people are buying real meerkats — known for their endearing habit of standing bolt upright on ‘lookout’ — as domestic pets.
The RSPCA saw a 191 per cent increase in calls about meerkats to their cruelty line in the year following the first advert. Last year it received 27 calls about the animals — up from only five in the year before the ads, with reports of the animals, who live in family groups in the wild, going out of their minds with loneliness.
And they can be smelly, vicious and destructive, too. No wonder new owners soon find the reality of the animal is nothing like the cute TV version they envisaged.
‘It’s a worrying rise,’ says the RSPCA’s Chief Inspector Lee Hopgood. ‘We saw the same thing happen with dalmatians after the release of the film 101 Dalmatians. People see meerkats on screen and think they’re affable little creatures and want one as a pet.
‘But meerkats are group animals. They need to be kept in a family unit in a large enclosure. You can’t keep one in the house like a dog or a cat.’
Alexsandr Orlov has become such a cultural phenomena that in 2010 his catchphrase 'Simples' has made it into the Collins English Dictionary
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Alexsandr Orlov has become such a cultural phenomena that in 2010 his catchphrase 'Simples' has made it into the Collins English Dictionary
Kimmy admits the advert was one of the reasons why she bought Lola and Lawrence — but only because she was alarmed by the ignorance of fellow owners. The zoology graduate insists she is raising the pair responsibly and wants to educate others about these exotic wild animals.
‘As a result of that ad, the first things people ask me are: “Do they speak Russian?” or “Are they going to sell me insurance?”’ she says.
‘Although I love my meerkats and they are my pets, you need to know what you’re doing if you’re keeping them. I’ve been working with animals for many years and run a petting zoo.
‘They’re not something you should buy on impulse, especially not without having visited other people who keep pets in a home environment. Only then will you see how destructive they can be.’
‘Meerkats have the worst bite of any animal I know. I was bitten last year by Lola’s sister Lily. It was an accident, but it almost went down to the bone.
‘The bruise took about three months to heal and the scar is only just fading now. If that was a child it would have caused severe damage and meerkats are known for biting people’s noses, which can cause facial scarring.’
Kimmy bought Lawrence and Lola two years ago after meeting a friend who kept them as pets. They cost over £500 each, although some pet shops charge over £1,000. She now uses them in animal education programmes in schools and workshops for the public. /snip
 
I have a few tarantulas :) Lovely pets, easy to care for and very interesting. :)

I have the following:
Three Green Bottle Blues: link
Two Mexican fire legs link
A Mexican red knee link

Love these little guys. Did you know spiders shed their skin (molting) as they grow? Amazing to see

I love them.
Currently have 28 of them
 
What on earth are you talking about? What breeding have I done and what environment have I taken away? I assume you live in a ethereal space and have no carbon footprint?
It is all very well to bleat about private breeders saving the planet. But how many private breeders breed to save a species? Mmm? More likely to get loads of bucks as you bragged about earlier. Puh-lease.

We were just talking about one...

His middle class lifestyle is hardly loads of bucks.
Sure he has a pool in the back yard but it leaks to about the half way mark so that is where the terrapins go.
 
What on earth are you talking about? What breeding have I done and what environment have I taken away? I assume you live in a ethereal space and have no carbon footprint?
No need to be so sensitive. You sound like a backyard breeder who looks after their animals who has been accused by random people of being dodge :) The "people like you" phrase includes me as well. Its the average person.

It is all very well to bleat about private breeders saving the planet. But how many private breeders breed to save a species? Mmm? More likely to get loads of bucks as you bragged about earlier. Puh-lease.

Well most start out because they love the animal. Not for profit and as their collection grows they monitize it to make it sustainable to keep the animals. Unfortunely for some reason, people with little knowledge on these animals (normal people) are happy to whine, but are not willing to put up the cash to save these animals from habitat destruction. It was thanks to private breeders who sell rattlesnakes, that rattlesnakes were reintroduced into the wild after normal people had killed them close to extinction (in the wild). Apparently people didnt realize how important they are until rodents started destroying their crops due to a lack of predator snakes.

What really annoys me, are people who blindly paint all breeders as bad, without having the smallest idea about what the animals needs and status is. People should stop reading PETA feeds for their animal information and rather concentrate on following Nature Conservation feeds. That way you get a less hysterical and less skewed idea of what really is happening.

Ive friends who are these "backyard breeders" of reptiles and they have the most amazing habitats I have seen. I wish I could afford half the stuff they have. Those animals are happier than they would be in the wild.... and safer.
 
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No need to be so sensitive. You sound like a backyard breeder who looks after their animals who has been accused by random people of being dodge :) The "people like you" phrase includes me as well. Its the average person.



Well most start out because they love the animal. Not for profit and as their collection grows they monitize it to make it sustainable to keep the animals. Unfortunely for some reason, people like you (normal people) are happy to whine, but are not willing to put up the cash to save these animals from habitat destruction. It was thanks to private breeders who sell rattlesnakes, that rattlesnakes were reintroduced into the wild after normal people had killed them close to extinction (in the wild). Apparently people didnt realize how important they are until rodents started destroying their crops due to a lack of predator snakes.

What really annoys me, are people who blindly paint all breeders are bad, without having the smallest idea about what the animals needs and status is. People should stop reading PETA feeds for their animal information and rather concentrate on following Nature Conservation feeds. That way you get a less hysterical and less skewed idea of what really is happening.
Where have I painted all breeders as bad? I am specifically talking about what is termed "backyard" breeding, ie. unethical breeding. If you are an ethical breeder, fine, good for you. But I have a serious beef with uncontrolled breeding for the pet trade. Because where do these animals end up? Yes, then it becomes the job of animal welfare organisations that have to sort out the mess. You will see in my posts that conservation and animal rights are my passion. Again, you have no idea what I do or do not do to support wildlife conservation.
I did say I would not comment on reptiles, but I have a serious issue with wild mammals in private homes as well as hybridised animals like Savannah cats (where is the conservation in crossbreeding?)
 
Where have I painted all breeders as bad? I am specifically talking about what is termed "backyard" breeding, ie. unethical breeding. If you are an ethical breeder, fine, good for you. But I have a serious beef with uncontrolled breeding for the pet trade. Because where do these animals end up? Yes, then it becomes the job of animal welfare organisations that have to sort out the mess.

I wouldnt imagine exotic animals would have trouble in welfare. They cost and arm and a leg, so if you know any SPCA or anything that has a wierd animal they cant look after let me know, Ill EASILY find it a loving home.

In South Africa, expecially in provinces like the Eastern Cape. You need permits for EVERYTHING. Even corn snakes. If you are moving a snake from one house to another you even need a transport permit. These permits are managed by qualified Nature Conservation specialists and not unqualified SPCA officials. The people qualified to know where these animals are and what they are doing are Nature Conservation and they are generally on the ball. The other week there was a news article about a touch farm (or concentration camp as you might know them)in Pretoria who was neglecting their reptiles. Only reptile breeders would be able to identify their lack of suitable care. It was breeders that phoned Nature Con & the SPCA to report the bad condition and care of these animals as there are very few people in the public or animal welfare that would know they were not being cared for correctly. The rescued animals also didnt end up going to the SPCA (who dont know how to care of them). They went to private breeders who specialize in those animals.

You will see in my posts that conservation and animal rights are my passion. Again, you have no idea what I do or do not do to support wildlife conservation.
Sorry, you came across as one of those PETA feed follower types with some of the blanket statements about breeders that it looked like you were saying ealier on. Its the regular propaganda they use. If you are more involved in conservation good for you.

I did say I would not comment on reptiles, but I have a serious issue with wild mammals in private homes as well as hybridised animals like Savannah cats (where is the conservation in crossbreeding?)

Well unless you are a specialist in those mammals, you cant make blanket statements like you just did and expect me to take you seriously. There are many "wild" (if theyre in captivity theyre not wild, but theyre exotic animals) animals that can do well with human domestication. Like Sloths. There are also many species of sloth that will need private breeders to last the long term. Some of them are close to extinction and if only a handful of zoo`s and parks look after these animals... the genetic pool becomes depleted (like whats currently happening to cheetahs) and the species will eventually die out. You really need to look at the bigger picture here.

I have no problem with hybridization, Specication is a part of evolution. People are trying to do it intentionally in many breeding programs (like trying to bring back the Quagga). I just wrote an article (was printed in this months printed magazine) in an exotic animal magazine that dealt with a naturally occuring hybridized snake that was discovered in the wild and is now being bred in captivity (The Gabino). Savannah cats are also banned in South Africa. There are none.

As it is, normal people with their "domesticated" cats are a big enough problem to our animals. Domestic cats kill hundreds of millions of indigenous birds every year. If you really cared about indigenous animals you would spend more of your time trying to stop people from keeping domestic cats than you would going after a person who wants to keep a hedgehog.
 
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Known rabies carriers.

Just be aware of their needs...

A friend of mine has one, it has to be put away when there are visitors as they are aggressive little buggers to people they dont know. Very hard pet to look after you should be an experienced handler before thinking of getting one.

Yep, I would love to have one, but they aren't really practical as pets. What I want I'm not intending to get, in this case. ;)
 
As it is, normal people with their "domesticated" cats are a big enough problem to our animals. Domestic cats kill hundreds of millions of indigenous birds every year. If you really cared about indigenous animals you would spend more of your time trying to stop people from keeping domestic cats than you would going after a person who wants to keep a hedgehog.
As I do. It seems you have made loads of assumptions about me just because i don't breed reptiles in my bathroom.

I have a big problem with irresponsible pet ownership, end of. As a rescue volunteer, I trap and sterilise dozens of feral cats every year in my spare time. I have cats but they are indoor cats because I am a wild bird lover too. I am a very passionate proponent for keeping cats indoors and not allowing them to wander.
What do you do to address the situation?
Since you don't seem to like cats anyway, of course you don't give a damn about hybridisation in wild cats. I don't give a damn how happily Chloe the Savannah is in her suburban home. My worry is how long it will take before unsterilised cats will be allowed to roam and impact on the wild species. In the USA, where Savannahs and bobcats are a trend, there are already horror stories of these animals ending up in rescue shelters because the f****with owners with more money than sense cannot take care of them. Incidentally, accidental hybridisation has resulted in it being very difficult to find a "true" African wildcats because they have interbred with domestic cats.
 
As I do. It seems you have made loads of assumptions about me just because i don't breed reptiles in my bathroom.
Im not sure why you need to lie like that. You know this is not true. Im making assumptions because of (what I believe are) misleading blanket statements you are saying.

I have a big problem with irresponsible pet ownership, end of. As a rescue volunteer, I trap and sterilise dozens of feral cats every year in my spare time. I have cats but they are indoor cats because I am a wild bird lover too. I am a very passionate proponent for keeping cats indoors and not allowing them to wander.
This is the double standards I feel you have. You get good cat owners and bad cat owners. Just like you get good breeders and bad breeders. You are not on a crusade to stop cat owners from owning cats because you like them. Even though the bad cat owners lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions of indigenous birds. Why can the good breeders not get the same grace you give the cat owners?

What do you do to address the situation?
I sit on the executive of an assocication that works closely with Nature conservation in captive breeding programs for reptiles and amphibians. Im the person they call when they are about to do a new residential or commercial development. I go in there with a group of people and save all the animals that were about to be bulldozed over. Another one of our functions is to report dodgy or bad breeders. We hold our members to very very high standards and work hand in hand with nature conservation. If you look after strange animals. Nature con visits you regularly.

Since you don't seem to like cats anyway,
Nope, misleading again. I have two cats I love dearly. I just am well aware of their impact on the environment. They are both immunized and steralized.

of course you don't give a damn about hybridisation in wild cats. I don't give a damn how happily Chloe the Savannah is in her suburban home. My worry is how long it will take before unsterilised cats will be allowed to roam and impact on the wild species. In the USA, where Savannahs and bobcats are a trend, there are already horror stories of these animals ending up in rescue shelters because the f****with owners with more money than sense cannot take care of them. Incidentally, accidental hybridisation has resulted in it being very difficult to find a "true" African wildcats because they have interbred with domestic cats.

I would be silly if I had a problem with hybridization. Thats like being angry with how nature works. I do care that how happy Chloe the Savannah is in her suburban home. But I seem to have a thing for animals that other people want dead.

I would recommend you keep to your cats, and stop making blanket statements about mammals and other animals you are not experienced with. Expecially when they can be interpted as misleading. I would highly recommend you get involved with Nature Conservation and speak to people qualified in conservation. You are not going to get that information being a volunteer in animal welfare.

Luckily, most of the animals I keep will not survive in the wild. They would die in days or weeks. Its one of the requirements to own such animals here in South Africa. Which is why your hated Savannah cat is not allowed into the country. The animals you like keeping however, are a threat. So keep up the good work.
 
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Jirre, this thread creeps me out. I have shivers just looking at all these snakes. You guys are nuts :o
 
Why can the good breeders not get the same grace you give the cat owners?



.
You seem to have trouble understanding what I am saying. i have no problem with ethical breeders.
I have a problem with UNETHICAL BREEDERS/BREEDING
Jeez, how many times?
 
(...and in my opinion, this includes savannah cats and bengals, who are wildcat/moggie mixes).
 
You seem to have trouble understanding what I am saying. i have no problem with ethical breeders.
I have a problem with UNETHICAL BREEDERS/BREEDING
Jeez, how many times?

Really, I thought you said this as well, "but I have a serious issue with wild mammals in private homes" and "I am totally opposed to the keeping of exotic mammals as pets" and "but how many private breeders breed to save a species? Mmm? More likely to get loads of bucks as you bragged about earlier"

If you didnt say those things then your oversized font makes sense :)
 
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