F1 2023

Which team will take constructors in 2023?

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lkpat said:
And I use that same logic to clarify that it wasn't a level playing field between MS and his second.
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I never argued otherwise. I merely highlighted that the concept of #1 status and team orders existed before him and persists after him.

lkpat said:
It wasn't coincidence that he was faster most of the time, it also wasn't down to pure skill, he just raced people who weren't really WC material or received the best of the upgrades because it makes sense doing that with the driver more likely to succeed.
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How do you explain his World Championships against the likes of Hill, Hakkinen, Raikkonen and Montoya? This is a very weird argument, unless you believe Eddie Irvine could beat Hakkinen (he tried and he couldn't) or Barrichello was equal to Raikkonen and Montoya?

lkpat said:
I wouldn't say he rinsed them, much like I'd say the same thing about Max. The car is built around him.
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Yeah he did. Max is obliterating Perez to the point that Checo's future with the team will shortly be in doubt if he doesn't sort himself out.
 
Harold_Crick said:
How do you explain his World Championships against the likes of Hill, Hakkinen, Raikkonen and Montoya? This is a very weird argument, unless you believe Eddie Irvine could beat Hakkinen (he tried and he couldn't) or Barrichello was equal to Raikkonen and Montoya?
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I think he was talking about the 2nd driver in the team, not the whole grid.
 
So a driver that struggled against every teammate he had the last few years are suddenly going to perform? LOL they should have rather got a young new talent. I would even give Schumacher a go before DR.
 
FlashSA said:
Am I right or wrong here: Yuki's shortcomings have been glossed over because of his nationality and "rewarding Honda" by having a Japanese driver in a Honda engined car. That's how I have seen it. Now with Honda's relationship with RB coming to an end at the end of 2025, if DR does indeed run rings around Yuki, it could spell the beginning of the end for him too.

(And before I am corrected on the Honda involvement thing, Honda still provides assistance to Red Bull with the current engine freeze)
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Honda has no say in F1 at the moment. They sold their engine manufacturing to RBR who created Red Bull Power Trains.
I suppose RBR could simply get rid of Tsunoda...if anything his childish whines on the radio would do the trick all on its own.
 
Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
So a driver that struggled against every teammate he had the last few years are suddenly going to perform? LOL they should have rather got a young new talent. I would even give Schumacher a go before DR.
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I think people should not forget the fact that DR brings a whole lot more than just an experienced driver to the table.

He is arguably the 2nd or 3rd most popular guy in F1 at the moment. He brings eyes to the brand/sells merch, tickets etc.

De Vries only job was to perform in the car, outside of that he brings nothing to the table unfortunately.
 
Harold_Crick said:
How do you explain his World Championships against the likes of Hill, Hakkinen, Raikkonen and Montoya?
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Hill was some cheating involved, the rest was down to the car mostly. The same thing for Hakkinen's Macca when he won. The same reason Hill won when he did. Michael was in an inferior car.
Harold_Crick said:
This is a very weird argument, unless you believe Eddie Irvine could beat Hakkinen (he tried and he couldn't) or Barrichello was equal to Raikkonen and Montoya?
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He was 2 points off, that's as near as dammit, but I don't rate him as highly, like most of Michael's teammates. I don't rate Barrichello.
Harold_Crick said:
Yeah he did. Max is obliterating Perez to the point that Checo's future with the team will shortly be in doubt if he doesn't sort himself out.
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That's pretty obvious. The car is set up for Max. Horner was clear about the fact.
I rate Max over Perez, but not in the right hardware, in just the same way Max was beaten to many WC before his first dubious win.
 
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lkpat said:
en.m.wikipedia.org

Red Bull Powertrains - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Red Bull Powertrains, abbreviated as RBPT, is a Formula One power unit manufacturing company owned by the Austrian Red Bull GmbH. The company was formed in 2021 to take over the operation of Formula One power units developed by Honda from 2022 onwards following the Japanese manufacturer's withdrawal from the sport after 2021. However, Honda continued to support the Red Bull owned teams in 2022 and will do so until the end of 2025.[1][2][3]

Honda assembles the power units and provide trackside and race operation support. The power units remain Honda's intellectual property, and due to a development freeze, Red Bull Powertrains will not develop them.[4][5]

There's no new engine development happening till 2026.
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lkpat said:
Hill was some cheating involved, the rest was down to the car mostly. The same thing for Hakkinen's Macca when he won. The same reason Hill won when he did. Michael was in an inferior car.
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So no good drivers, only good cars.

lkpat said:
He was 2 points off, that's as near as dammit, but I don't rate him as highly, like most of Michael's teammates. I don't rate Barrichello.
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Mostly down to Hakkinen having an awful second half of the season, notably crashing out of the lead twice while comfortably ahead of Irvine. Irvine also needed team orders to win and take the lead in the championship in Malaysia. Upon his return, the much faster Michael twice slowed down to give Irvine the lead and successfully held Hakkinen up to protect him. See, not only Michael benefitted from team orders. ;)

lkpat said:
That's pretty obvious. The car is set up for Max. Horner was clear about the fact.
I rate Max over Perez, but not in the right hardware, in just the same way Max was beaten to many WC before his first dubious win.
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I'm sorry but Max and Perez are not even in the same league. I don't even think there is a driver on the grid at the moment that is in Max's league and I'm not even a fan of the guy.
 
OhYeah84 said:
Honda has no say in F1 at the moment. They sold their engine manufacturing to RBR who created Red Bull Power Trains.
I suppose RBR could simply get rid of Tsunoda...if anything his childish whines on the radio would do the trick all on its own.
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And this is why I specifically clarified in my post, that Honda is still involved with the RB engines until the end of 2025. If you know, you know....
 
Icemanbrfc said:
Damn they did De Vries dirty. Disgrace lol
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Maximiliano Firtman on Twitter: With time IE became a meme, a joke between devs and users: Internet Exploder, the best browser to download other browsers, and more. Microsoft started an interesting campaign:
 
Harold_Crick said:
So no good drivers, only good cars.
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Not what I said, I already said I rate Max over Checo, Michael over Rubens and Eddie... but look at the rate of wins when it comes to car designers and a clear picture emerges.

Harold_Crick said:
I'm sorry but Max and Perez are not even in the same league. I don't even think there is a driver on the grid at the moment that is in Max's league and I'm not even a fan of the guy.
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Max is not in a league of his own. Took him a few years and a good car to be where he is, and he's never been paired with a decent teammate. We've already seen how he handles pressure - he can be his own worst enemy when under pressure, but I would rate him along with Hamilton and Alonso in terms of talent.
The trouble with this sport is that poor vehicles develop bad habits and right now some talented drivers are having to adjust their driving style to suit a crap car. It's not good. RB said the same of Danny Ric when he returned. He had so much work to do to get around the compensation habits he'd picked up.
Right now Max is in a rocket. We need the rest of the pack to catch up to really see action and talent.
 
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lkpat said:
Not what I said, I already said I rate Max over Checo, Michael over Rubens and Eddie... but look at the rate of wins when it comes to car designers and a clear picture emerges.


Max is not in a league of his own. Took him a few years and a good car to be where he is, and he's never been paired with a decent teammate. We've already seen how he handles pressure - he can be his own worst enemy when under pressure, but I would rate him along with Hamilton and Alonso in terms of talent.
The trouble with this sport is that poor vehicles develop bad habits and right now some talented drivers are having to adjust their driving style to suit a crap car. It's not good. RB said the same of Danny Ric when he returned. He had so much work to do to get around the compensation habits he'd picked up.
Right now Max is in a rocket. We need the rest of the pack to catch up to really see action and talent.
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I wonder where that would leave Lando if for e.g. he got to drive the RB? Would he be able to adapt?
 
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