Fake SAA pilot flew under radar

bromster said:
I can see how it would be easy for this guy to masquerade as a pilot.
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He's not masquerading as a pilot, he's a genuine pilot. He has a valid CPL as required by the CAA to fly an airliner, he has passed all medicals, exams & sim time as required for the CPL, internal company evaluations and has thousands of hours of flight experience.
 
garp said:
Don’t these guys have to have regular training, assessments and simulator time? You can’t just fake a document and fly an airliner with no further checks or evaluations for the next 20 years?
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Clearly someone higher up was doing the gatekeeping.

The M&G was told by several sources that Chandler had previously refused to be promoted to captain, a process that would have required him to resubmit his certification.
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Industry insiders said his refusal should have rung alarm bells; pilots who joined SAA alongside Chandler in January 1994 became captains in 2005 yet he remained a senior first officer (SFO).

Besides passing theory exams, a medical and other requirements, a pilot working at an airline needs to amass 1 500 hours’ flying time, of which 100 must be at night, to get an ATPL — at a cost of up to R150 000.

SAA was not in a position to reveal when Chandler first claimed to have an ATPL but, given that he joined the airline in 1994 he would have needed it by 1999, because the airline’s policy requires all pilots to get an ATPL within the first five years of employment. Prior to 1994, Chandler worked at SAA as a flight engineer.
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ponder said:
Yet the same airline allows pilots to fly in the same seat with no APTL for a period of 5yrs, at the end of the day they are still hauling your ass around at the lower standard...
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thechamp said:
Clearly someone higher up was doing the gatekeeping.
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It sounds like BEE in reverse. Going through arbitrary paperwork to satisfy some criteria which have no impact on safety when flying as co-pilot, but which are used to decide promotions, salaries and perks...

The criteria for earning an ATP licence in the USA (FAA) have no bearing on the command of a large passenger jet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_transport_pilot_licence

The two most common pilot licensing systems worldwide, FAA and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) have some fundamental differences. The FAA ATP certificate requires one theoretical knowledge test covering the all knowledge areas which can be passed with as little as a week's preparation with a $5,000 course. The EASA ATPL requires candidates to pass fourteen separate theoretical exams, with a six-month residential or twelve-month distance-learning course mandatory during this phase. Course costs of $4,000–$8,000 are typical, along with time off work and living expenses.
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The FAA ATP flight test can be taken in a light piston aircraft with 1,500 hours experience. It is therefore common for FAA pilots to earn their ATP (required to command large commercial aircraft) without ever having flown such aircraft.
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The aircraft type rating for CPL pilots is completely separate, and has nothing to do with ATP(L).

Any pilot operating an aircraft for pay must start by obtaining a commercial pilot certificate (CPL). Airline transport pilot certifications do not have special endorsements, such as an instrument rating, as airline transport pilots must already possess knowledge and training in these areas. However, aircraft heavier than 12,500 pounds still require pilots to have a "type rating" (specific to the make and model of aircraft) certification.
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This part I don't understand:
SAA suffered actual financial prejudice as a result of claims he made for over a decade,” said Tlali.
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No, SAA did not suffer, they would have had to pay some other pilot to do exactly the same job. I'm not condoning what he did, but its a knee-jerk reaction to blame the individual for the company's lack of oversight over many years.
 
Gordon_R said:
This part I don't understand:


No, SAA did not suffer, they would have had to pay some other pilot to do exactly the same job. I'm not condoning what he did, but its a knee-jerk reaction to blame the individual for the company's lack of oversight over many years.
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Yeah that makes no sense. They also saying they want to recoup all money they paid him even though he did perform his job properly for 25yrs...
 
This guy should just do his six online ATPL exams at the CAA, he more than meets the rest of the practical requirements already.
 
ponder said:
This guy should just do his six online ATPL exams at the CAA, he more than meets the rest of the practical requirements already.
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Its difficult. Once you have faked a document, it becomes fraud, and dishonesty is a career limiting move in most professions(*).

From the OP:
The Air Line Pilots’ Association one of the unions that represent pilots at SAA, said Chandler was a member but has since had his membership revoked.
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TysonRoux said:
Wonder if they'll be going after all the unqualified ANC cadres deployed to SAA management positions for many years and recover all the bonuses and wages?
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* Dishonesty is not a disqualification for a politician...
 
Gordon_R said:
Its difficult. Once you have faked a document, it becomes fraud, and dishonesty is a career limiting move in most professions...

From the OP:
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Yeah I suppose that would be an issue. Other countries might be more lenient.
 
Though he's as a legally-qualified commercial pilot, he's in breach of his employment agreement with SAA. He was paid not just for being a pilot but at a higher rate for (falsely) claiming to have an ATPL. It makes sense that SAA want to recover that money. He fraudulently obtained more money because he forged an ATPL.
 
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Arthur said:
Though he's as a legally-qualified commercial pilot, he's in breach of his employment agreement with SAA. He was paid not just for being a pilot but at a higher rate for (falsely) claiming to have an ATPL. It makes sense that SAA want to recover that money. He fraudulently obtained more money because he forged an ATPL.
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We may have to agree to disagree. Has SAA tried to recover the millions that Dudu Myeni squandered?

Smells like an over-reaction to me. They got caught with their pants down in front of an international audience, and are trying to deflect attention from their own systematic failures...
 
Gordon_R said:
We may have to agree to disagree. Has SAA tried to recover the millions that Dudu Myeni squandered?

Smells like an over-reaction to me. They got caught with their pants down in front of an international audience, and are trying to deflect attention from their own systematic failures...
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Oh, I totally agree that the Dudu Myeni fiasco is an outrage. But that's a different problem caused directly by the government putting taxpayers' money into their own government-owned airline and appointing their cronies to spend it more or less as they wish. That would and could never happen in a world where the State didn't own a the enterprise (in this case an airline) or wasn't enabled to take taxpayer money to subsidise and bail out their bad decisions. The government fraud being perpetrated is truly monumental, because it violates the laws of natural justice. Sadly, it is politics and politicians with their lala-land voodoo economics that make things like Dudu Myeni possible.

Chandler's fraudulent misrepresentation is wrong, of course. And I have no problem with his employer pursuing him to recover the extra remuneration they paid him on the strength of his lie. The situation would be unchanged had SAA been a private airline with only private money involved.
 
Arthur said:
And I have no problem with his employer pursuing him to recover the extra remuneration they paid him on the strength of his lie.

The situation would be unchanged had SAA been a private airline with only private money involved.
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They claim they wan't to recover all the money ever paid to him and not just that bit that was extra due to APTL.

That swedish guy that really faked it for years only got a 1700 euro or pound fine and restricted from flying for a year.
 
ponder said:
They claim they wan't to recover all the money ever paid to him and not just that bit that was extra due to APTL.

That swedish guy that really faked it for years only got a 1700 euro or pound fine and restricted from flying for a year.
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Again, that apparent claim might be incompetent journalism or imprecise wording by the SAA spokesperson.
 
https://ewn.co.za/2019/03/08/saa-official-reportedly-suspended-over-william-chandler-licence-scandal

JOHANNESBURG - A high ranking official at South African Airways (SAA) has reportedly been suspended for helping to cover up the fact the that a pilot was flying without the proper documents for the past 25 years.

The Mail & Guardian reported on Friday that SAA’s group head for safety, Victoria Buxton, faced disciplinary action for allegedly trying to conceal the matter involving the disgraced pilot William Chandler.
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