Farm murder - this time its personal

[supersunbird]

%$#&

I was chilling on Monday night with two mates, leveling my hunter (yes I play wow) when my phone rings at like 12:30am .... was the SO... Good friend of hers who is married with two lighties, shot on her family farm. Dead, just like that...

She was beside herself, never heard her like that before. I had to rush over.

I didnt really know her, I hadnt met her. Only heard her voice like once, and her one lighties voice. Its left me with quite a bitter taste in my mouth, and prompted some googling on these farm killings that are happening around south africa.

Can someone tell me, what the %$#& is going on in this country of ours? And why the government seems to ignore the whole thing? It hasn't even been reported on the news. I have checked all over, and cant find anything. Its not like someone stole a sweet from a shop, this woman was shot on her knees

I just dont know anymore...

Its in the Beeld I found lying around in KFC... Picture too

 

[Vrotappel]

Dude are you only realizing now that there are 50 odd murders a day in this country?

Has it taken a farm murder to get your attention? It amazes me how farm murders seem to be way more important, big outcry when someone on a farm dies but do any of you read or care about the other murders? Why are farm murders so much worse?

Granted it's a horrible story but there are 50 horrible stories a day and farm murders make up a tiny percentage yet they are always the most shocking to people.

You are not worried about your food supply?

 

[boramk]

You are not worried about your food supply?

Of course he does, how is that even a relevant question.
You have to purport he doesn't care about farm murders at all for your argument to make sense, and if that is a serious question you completely missed the point.

 

[saffakanera]

Dude are you only realizing now that there are 50 odd murders a day in this country?

Has it taken a farm murder to get your attention? It amazes me how farm murders seem to be way more important, big outcry when someone on a farm dies but do any of you read or care about the other murders? Why are farm murders so much worse?

Granted it's a horrible story but there are 50 horrible stories a day and farm murders make up a tiny percentage yet they are always the most shocking to people.

Because the people getting murdered are white Christian conservatives just like me and allot of other people like myself in this place. It affects us because we see it as death by association: hate crimes. These aren't drunk stabbings in Hillbrow, these are the preconceived, cold blooded and almost systematic killings of Afrikaners, its grounds of some serious worry if you are a dutchman my man.

This very issue is gaining extreme momentum in the Dutch parliament, the bastard dog leftist ruling party VVD apposes aid to white farmers / victims of the murders, whilst on the other side of the spectrum, the conservative right PVV, led by Geert Wilders, is a growing force in Dutch politiek, and they're completely behind Afrikaners in this light weight genocide.

And for the OP, sorry it must be a very traumatic experience

 

[boramk]

Because the people getting murdered are white Christian conservatives just like me and allot of other people like myself in this place. It affects us because we see it as death by association: hate crimes. These aren't drunk stabbings in Hillbrow, these are the preconceived, cold blooded and almost systematic killings of Afrikaners, its grounds of some serious worry if you are a dutchman my man.

This very issue is gaining extreme momentum in the Dutch parliament, the bastard dog leftist ruling party VVD apposes aid to white farmers / victims of the murders, whilst on the other side of the spectrum, the conservative right PVV, led by Geert Wilders, is a growing force in Dutch politiek, and they're completely behind Afrikaners in this light weight genocide.

How very Christian of you. You only care if its the same brood getting killed but ignore the fact that way more black people get killed everyday. Where is the sympathy for them?

 

[e4et]

Because the people getting murdered are white Christian conservatives just like me and allot of other people like myself in this place. It affects us because we see it as death by association: hate crimes. These aren't drunk stabbings in Hillbrow, these are the preconceived, cold blooded and almost systematic killings of Afrikaners, its grounds of some serious worry if you are a dutchman my man.

And for the OP, sorry it must be a very traumatic experience

Well said.

 

[Flanders]

How very Christian of you. You only care if its the same brood getting killed but ignore the fact that way more black people get killed everyday. Where is the sympathy for them?

Once again, for the umpteenth time, let's ignore the gigantic elephant in the room.

Who is doing the killing here? Yes, let's talk about multicultural diversity of all the victims of crime in our country. Let us bring it up every single time this happens to reassure ourselves that we're all in this together but never, ever will we actually talk about and identify the root source of it all - who perpetrates these crimes. That's where it all starts becoming a little too uncomfortable. If it's the same perpetrators time after time after time then it is only natural to become wary of, and dissasociate from elements within that group and to look out for your own. It's a sad state of affairs but that's the way it is.

Why don't you run off and ask these ruthless killers where their sense of sympathy was when they brutally took this woman away from her children?

 

[fantasticfred]

Because the people getting murdered are white Christian conservatives just like me and allot of other people like myself in this place. It affects us because we see it as death by association: hate crimes. These aren't drunk stabbings in Hillbrow, these are the preconceived, cold blooded and almost systematic killings of Afrikaners, its grounds of some serious worry if you are a dutchman my man.

This very issue is gaining extreme momentum in the Dutch parliament, the bastard dog leftist ruling party VVD apposes aid to white farmers / victims of the murders, whilst on the other side of the spectrum, the conservative right PVV, led by Geert Wilders, is a growing force in Dutch politiek, and they're completely behind Afrikaners in this light weight genocide.

And for the OP, sorry it must be a very traumatic experience

They are probably fed their information by people such as the owner of censorbugbear who herself lives in the Netherlands. I hope for their own sake they don't pursue any argument based on her data because there will be egg all over their face. She is the same person who the owner of Genocide watch used to get his information from. Since then he has admitted he was defrauded by her and lowered South Africa's risk profile (after he had raised it) to the level it's been since inception.

There is no "light weight genocide" of Afrikaners in South Africa. As the stats suggest 5.5 per 100 000 as a risk ratio (and that's of farmers of all races) is about the same as the U.S.A. If farmers are experiencing 'light weight genocide" then so is everyone in the U.S.A.

All people are doing by telling Afrikaners they are experiencing any form of genocide is causing paranoia, ill feeling and poor relations between them and other ethnic groups. I would not be surprised if the actions that lead to at least some farmers being murdered was caused by these seeds of race hate and paranoia being planted into them and them acting out in a nasty manner to workers etc. This talk of 'genocide' and such is hurting relations between people and telling people those that are different to them are their enemies. It's fueling the fire and that can't be a good thing. For the sake of peace and to live together we need to stop this rubbish from both sides. But peace is the last thing some people in the extreme right want. Some want outright war and they will fill your ears with worms to get to the means to their ends. Be skeptical.

 

[fantasticfred]

Once again, for the umpteenth time, let's ignore the gigantic elephant in the room.

Who is doing the killing here? Yes, let's talk about multicultural diversity of all the victims of crime in our country. Let us bring it up every single time this happens to reassure ourselves that we're all in this together but never, ever will we actually talk about and identify the root source of it all - who perpetrates these crimes. That's where it all starts becoming a little too uncomfortable. If it's the same perpetrators time after time after time then it is only natural to become wary of, and dissasociate from elements within that group and to look out for your own. It's a sad state of affairs but that's the way it is.

Why don't you run off and ask these ruthless killers where their sense of sympathy was when they brutally took this woman away from her children?

I'll spell it out. You are saying it's blacks who are doing the killing.

Two questions if you don't mind answering.

1) Do you think the murder rate in south Africa would be less or more than western Europe if there were no blacks ? I ask because I've never known white people who like to fight and get violent with each other as much as white South Africans. My personal theory is we'd still have a higher than average murder rate than other "white countries".

2) It is true that most violent crimes are carried out by young black males (mostly against other young black males ). To what do you attribute it ?

 

[Sherbang]

Once again, for the umpteenth time, let's ignore the gigantic elephant in the room.

Who is doing the killing here? Yes, let's talk about multicultural diversity of all the victims of crime in our country. Let us bring it up every single time this happens to reassure ourselves that we're all in this together but never, ever will we actually talk about and identify the root source of it all - who perpetrates these crimes. That's where it all starts becoming a little too uncomfortable. If it's the same perpetrators time after time after time then it is only natural to become wary of, and dissasociate from elements within that group and to look out for your own. It's a sad state of affairs but that's the way it is.

Why don't you run off and ask these ruthless killers where their sense of sympathy was when they brutally took this woman away from her children?

I totally agree that it is time to stop talking about the multicultural diversity of the victims. Time to stop talking about 'farm' murders and talk about murders full stop! Time to stop talking about 'white genocide' and talk about the terrible violence and murder that affects all of us everyday.

I also agree that we need to focus on - as you say - 'the root source of it all' - those who perpetrates these crimes. As you say, it is only natural to become wary of, and dissasociate from elements within that group... of savages! And that group, of course, is men! Yes! Almost all these murders are committed by men. Savages, all of them, no sympathy for the women and children caught in the target of their vile violence. Damn men. I'd dissacosiate from this group if I could, it's only natural, as you say, unfortunately I belong to that very group

 

[R13...]

Well said.

Why do people say "well said" to things that are clearly anything but said well? Why? Someone has an explanation for me, please? I don't get it. Why?

 

[fantasticfred]

I totally agree that it is time to stop talking about the multicultural diversity of the victims. Time to stop talking about 'farm' murders and talk about murders full stop! Time to stop talking about 'white genocide' and talk about the terrible violence and murder that affects all of us everyday.

I also agree that we need to focus on - as you say - 'the root source of it all' - those who perpetrates these crimes. As you say, it is only natural to become wary of, and dissasociate from elements within that group... of savages! And that group, of course, is men! Yes! Almost all these murders are committed by men. Savages, all of them, no sympathy for the women and children caught in the target of their vile violence. Damn men. I'd dissacosiate from this group if I could, it's only natural, as you say, unfortunately I belong to that very group

Easy now. Men are a certain social upbringing and education show very low levels of violence. I'd bet any of my male friends is hundreds of times more likely to come to the defense of a woman or person than harm one.

 

[fantasticfred]

Why do people say "well said" to things that are clearly anything but said well? Why? Someone has an explanation for me, please? I don't get it. Why?

Not everyone is really thoughtful about issues to the extent that you have to be to understand them. Remember 50% of the people you meet probably have an IQ lower than 100. the sad thing is even people with the iq of 100 if the system really had decent standards would be soylent green in a stricter universe. My point is you don't even have to be statistically on the side of stupid to not know what the hell is going on in the world and take things at face value with challenging their cause and effect.

 

[Flanders]

I'll spell it out. You are saying it's blacks who are doing the killing.

Two questions if you don't mind answering.

1) Do you think the murder rate in south Africa would be less or more than western Europe if there were no blacks ? I ask because I've never known white people who like to fight and get violent with each other as much as white South Africans. My personal theory is we'd still have a higher than average murder rate than other "white countries".

2) It is true that most violent crimes are carried out by young black males (mostly against other young black males ). To what do you attribute it ?

You're boxing me in with your line of questioning so to be clear, I regard the problem to be "bad seeds" within society and not in terms of an entire race. Anyway, I'll bite. I'd answer with:

1.) That would depend on who was running the country and how effectively crime was dealt with - the rule of law. There are bad seeds in any society and if they thought they'd be able to get away with it, they'd try. This is something which compounds the problem here in SA with our already fscked up society and even more fscked up "leadership". Even under ANC rule, violent crime would undoubtedly be incomparable with what it is now, regardless. Call me what you will. From a purely numbers point of view without any preconceived notions it's a no-brainer and I don't think anybody could possibly deny this.

2) I don't know. Bad upbringing? Possible lack of a father figure and lack of respectable rolemodels? Who knows? If this could be answered definitively and without politically correct *****-footing then we'd be seeing results surely?

 

[Sherbang]

Easy now. Men are a certain social upbringing and education show very low levels of violence. I'd bet any of my male friends is hundreds of times more likely to come to the defense of a woman or person than harm one.

I was just trying to point out how ridiculous it is to point the finger at entire 'groups'. He was obviously pointing the finger at black people who commit all these crimes - I was just pointing out it's mostly men too. Pointing fingers at a group because the perpetrators happen to be part of a group is silly - if he is going to distance himself from black people, he might as well distance himself from men too...

 

[fantasticfred]

You're boxing me in with your line of questioning so to be clear, I regard the problem to be "bad seeds" within society and not in terms of an entire race. Anyway, I'll bite. I'd answer with:

1.) That would depend on who was running the country and how effectively crime was dealt with - the rule of law. There are bad seeds in any society and if they thought they'd be able to get away with it, they'd try. This is something which compounds the problem here in SA with our already fscked up society and even more fscked up "leadership". Even under ANC rule, violent crime would undoubtedly be incomparable with what it is now, regardless. Call me what you will. From a purely numbers point of view without any preconceived notions it's a no-brainer and I don't think anybody could possibly deny this.

I don't think we can really blame the government. They massively increased the number of cops and we have seen a slow reduction in violent crime. But I would not attribute that to the cops. and I apologise to the good cops out there and you know who you are, but if you have a rotten core of people to choose from you're going to get a rotten core of cops too. I attribute the decline in violent crime to be because of better social conditions due to the economy growing steadily. I don't think we will ever fix this country with more police and more invasion of our freedoms by said police. I don't want to live in a police state. I think it's up to us "good apples" to sort it out and not rely on some poorly paid state servant who himself probably came from a dysfunctional rotten home.

2) I don't know. Bad upbringing? Possible lack of a father figure and lack of respectable rolemodels? Who knows? If this could be answered definitively and without politically correct *****-footing then we'd be seeing results surely?

Father figure is a big one. They did a study and something like 80% of inmates for serious crimes in the states come from single mother families. That's not to say it's all run away dad's. There's plenty of moms who did not take parenting as seriously as they should have. But yes I agree with the reasons you have given as a start. I also would welcome a debate devoid of political correctness. People have some funny ideas about race and there should be a place for them to express them if for nothing more than they can be challenged and offered alternative ways of understanding their environments. Melanin levels can not and do not cause violent behavior.

 

[fantasticfred]

I was just trying to point out how ridiculous it is to point the finger at entire 'groups'. He was obviously pointing the finger at black people who commit all these crimes - I was just pointing out it's mostly men too. Pointing fingers at a group because the perpetrators happen to be part of a group is silly - if he is going to distance himself from black people, he might as well distance himself from men too...

I's a good point. I wonder if he knows the genetic difference between men and woman is twice that than it is between the entire group of men of all ethnic groups ? In other words males of any different "race" are more genetically similar than a male and female of the same race.

To put it another way. All men (or women) are 99.99% the same genetically. All men and all woman are only 99.8% the same genetically.

 

[boramk]

Once again, for the umpteenth time, let's ignore the gigantic elephant in the room.

Who is doing the killing here? Yes, let's talk about multicultural diversity of all the victims of crime in our country. Let us bring it up every single time this happens to reassure ourselves that we're all in this together but never, ever will we actually talk about and identify the root source of it all - who perpetrates these crimes. That's where it all starts becoming a little too uncomfortable. If it's the same perpetrators time after time after time then it is only natural to become wary of, and dissasociate from elements within that group and to look out for your own. It's a sad state of affairs but that's the way it is.

Why don't you run off and ask these ruthless killers where their sense of sympathy was when they brutally took this woman away from her children?

The elephant in your room is your racism. That's the only thing that bothers you about my or anyone's posts who advocates the end of violence and stop making certain crimes more tragic than others simply based on race.

Which race commits the most crime in South Africa? Blacks
Ok and now? That's your problem. You end there. You think no further.

Farmers are no more tragic than the violent murders of people of all races. I don't focus on the similarities of the perpetrators and use that as a shorthand for all people with the same similarity.

Oh and if you are going to argue this post, give me a good reason why you decided to bring up blacks. Go ahead son

 

[fantasticfred]

The elephant in your room is your racism. That's the only thing that bothers you about my or anyone's posts who advocates the end of violence and stop making certain crimes more tragic than others simply based on race.

Which race commits the most crime in South Africa? Blacks
Ok and now? That's your problem. You end there. You think no further.

Farmers are no more tragic than the violent murders of people of all races. I don't focus on the similarities of the perpetrators and use that as a shorthand for all people with the same similarity.

Oh and if you are going to argue this post, give me a good reason why you decided to bring up blacks. Go ahead son

I'm also waiting with baited breath for the follow up. He seems to have asked a question : Who causes the majority of violent crime. And we have answered "blacks". So ? What is the next part of his argument ? Is that it ? Is that what you wanted us to know ? What in your mind does it mean ? What should we conclude from that ? Please mister Flanders....can we have some more ?

 

[saffakanera]

They are probably fed their information by people such as the owner of censorbugbear who herself lives in the Netherlands. I hope for their own sake they don't pursue any argument based on her data because there will be egg all over their face. She is the same person who the owner of Genocide watch used to get his information from. Since then he has admitted he was defrauded by her and lowered South Africa's risk profile (after he had raised it) to the level it's been since inception.

There is no "light weight genocide" of Afrikaners in South Africa. As the stats suggest 5.5 per 100 000 as a risk ratio (and that's of farmers of all races) is about the same as the U.S.A. If farmers are experiencing 'light weight genocide" then so is everyone in the U.S.A.

All people are doing by telling Afrikaners they are experiencing any form of genocide is causing paranoia, ill feeling and poor relations between them and other ethnic groups. I would not be surprised if the actions that lead to at least some farmers being murdered was caused by these seeds of race hate and paranoia being planted into them and them acting out in a nasty manner to workers etc. This talk of 'genocide' and such is hurting relations between people and telling people those that are different to them are their enemies. It's fueling the fire and that can't be a good thing. For the sake of peace and to live together we need to stop this rubbish from both sides. But peace is the last thing some people in the extreme right want. Some want outright war and they will fill your ears with worms to get to the means to their ends. Be skeptical.

I completely agree that people shouldn't conform to paranoia and especially fear mongers like bugbear. But look at this, man, this was signed a month ago by 48 EU MEPs, it has to count for something...

I really didn't want to add the following, in respect of the OP, but there's a reason the condemning agreement was signed by the MEP's, they were given the details of *how* exactly allot of these folks are murdered. This is an incredibly brutal revelation, I don't think people should ignore this any longer, its now officially become an incident, and by the look of things, international too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJH4SS2RpsU&feature=player_embedded

Truth be told, maybe genocide is a strong word, but we all shouldn't deny that some seriously SERIOUSLY horrific crimes are being committed against innocent people. My great grandmother was casually beheaded whilst being raped, on her farm, long ago, still, that's just not normal, and judging by the few reports that actually get out, this trend is continuing, in an upward motion.

The real elephant in the room is the inhumane brutality.