Farm murder - this time its personal

[boramk]

I completely agree that people shouldn't conform to paranoia and especially fear mongers like bugbear. But look at this man, this was signed a month ago by 48 EU MEPs, it has to count for something...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJH4SS2RpsU&feature=player_embedded

From your link:

the massive problem of state-sanctioned racist murder of white farmers in South Africa

You agree with this?

 

[Flanders]

The elephant in your room is your racism. That's the only thing that bothers you about my or anyone's posts who advocates the end of violence and stop making certain crimes more tragic than others simply based on race.

Which race commits the most crime in South Africa? Blacks
Ok and now? That's your problem. You end there. You think no further.

Farmers are no more tragic than the violent murders of people of all races. I don't focus on the similarities of the perpetrators and use that as a shorthand for all people with the same similarity.

Oh and if you are going to argue this post, give me a good reason why you decided to bring up blacks. Go ahead son

Go ahead, son? Aha...ha...ha...ha.

Farmers are no more tragic than the violent murders of people of all races.

Agreed. Well, okay, to quote you: Ok and now? That's your problem. You end there. You think no further.

Now we all cover our eyes and ears 'til it happens again and then we all ask when it will stop and why this is happening and give ourselves the reassurance that we're all in this together in this so-called rainbow nation of ours because...it affects all of us! Sure it does! Now what, genius?

Your logic is: The monsters are coming out of the woods and are taking our village's women and children. Okay, what do we do? Well, we surely don't focus our attention on the monsters - they're hardly nice to their own women and children!

So what do you suggest, o wise one?

The crux of it all comes down to the fact that if you point out the problem, some holier than thou dip**** will come out screaming and shouting with finger extended, calling you the worst thing of them all..."racist"! Water off a ducks back, "son". Fact is...it's fact.

 

[saffakanera]

From your link:


You agree with this?

Obviously I don't, that's sensationalist.

I agree that people are being tortured and put to death for their skin colour and occupation though, right now, in this country.

 

[boramk]

Agreed. Well, okay, to quote you: Ok and now? That's your problem. You end there. You think no further.

Now we all cover our eyes and ears 'til it happens again and then we all ask when it will stop and why this is happening and give ourselves the reassurance that we're all in this together in this so-called rainbow nation of ours because...it affects all of us! Sure it does! Now what, genius?

I didn't suggest anything. YOU are the one who decided to bring up race.
You asked who are committing the most crimes, this was YOUR elephant in the room, and I answered, black people. Now its your turn to tell me what the solution is, unless that was just a statement. In which case it goes like this:

Me: Crime affects everyone
You: Black people commit crime
Me: ..... so?
You. That's it

What was the point of bringing up their race Flanders? Huh??

Your logic is: The monsters are coming out of the woods and are taking our village's women and children. Okay, what do we do? Well, we surely don't focus our attention on the monsters - they're hardly nice to their own women and children!

So what do you suggest, o wise one?

What any society would do, catch the monsters.

The crux of it all comes down to the fact that if you point out the problem, some holier than thou dip**** will come out screaming and shouting with finger extended, calling you the worst thing of them all..."racist"! Water off a ducks back, "son". Fact is...it's fact.

Right, so black people are the problem.

And now?

I'm still waiting, you haven't given anything new to the table.

 

[boramk]

Obviously I don't, that's sensationalist.

Then don't give such links.

Look here saff, I don't deny farm murders are a problem. I don't deny that some of them are definitely related to hate crime.
What I don't like however was your first post here, how you care only because you can identify with the victims, because like them, you are a white Christian.

Face it, not all those murders are hate crimes. If there was a hate crime against whites, there would be murders across the board beyond the occupational farmer. Blacks suffer just as much pain but through silence because the media doesn't cover them. They are at the bottom and nobody cares. On the other hand white murders receive much coverage.

So my point is, if you had your Christian values, you wouldn't champion fighting just white hate crime like you inferred in your first post. It would be crime in general.

 

[saffakanera]

Then don't give such links.

Look here saff, I don't deny farm murders are a problem. I don't deny that some of them are definitely related to hate crime.
What I don't like however was your first post here, how you care only because you can identify with the victims, because like them, you are a white Christian.

Face it, not all those murders are hate crimes. If there was a hate crime against whites, there would be murders across the board beyond the occupational farmer. Blacks suffer just as much pain but through silence because the media doesn't cover them. They are at the bottom and nobody cares. On the other hand white murders receive much coverage.

So my point is, if you had your Christian values, you wouldn't champion fighting just white hate crime like you inferred in your first post. It would be crime in general.

Wait, hang on that's not- oh wait, never mind, just a troll.

Seriously though, what the hell is wrong with you? Are you on speed? Don't try and grind down on me for trying to acknowledge that my people are dealing with a definite and brutal crime being committed against us. You flew into this thread at 600KMph with a primitive aggression that is not appreciated.

 

[fantasticfred]

I completely agree that people shouldn't conform to paranoia and especially fear mongers like bugbear. But look at this, man, this was signed a month ago by 48 EU MEPs, it has to count for something...

Counts for the fact that they have been fed bogus information. Plus they're a anti immigrant party so their politics isn't exactly hard to see through. I'm south African and I don't see what they see.

I really didn't want to add the following, in respect of the OP, but there's a reason the condemning agreement was signed by the MEP's, they were given the details of *how* exactly allot of these folks are murdered. This is an incredibly brutal revelation, I don't think people should ignore this any longer, its now officially become an incident, and by the look of things, international too.

Yes there have been some terrible murders. But as another poster pointed out if you just look at how black people are murdered every day you will find far more disgusting acts carried out with no political agenda. Our country has a lot of violent acts. We need to come to the cause of it. I find the idea that it's government sanctioned as you go on to hint at absolutely absurd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJH4SS2RpsU&feature=player_embedded

Truth be told, maybe genocide is a strong word, but we all shouldn't deny that some seriously SERIOUSLY horrific crimes are being committed against innocent people. My great grandmother was casually beheaded whilst being raped, on her farm, long ago, still, that's just not normal, and judging by the few reports that actually get out, this trend is continuing, in an upward motion.

The real elephant in the room is the inhumane brutality.

According to the T.A.U the trend is on a downward spiral. Last year saw the least ever farm murders since 1987.

The inhumane brutality is in some cases apparent. Mostly not. 2% of farm attacks that take place when the people are at home result in murder. almost always the wife or children are spared. It's not a coincidence we can all name the exception when a young child was murdered. I can not in anyway defend these crimes. I get a thrill when they catch the perps and want as much as the next family man to put a crow bar to their skulls. But that's no reason for me to read things into it that just aren't there such as government sanctioned murder or genocide. If the a.n.c wanted whites off the farms they could do it in one easy piece of legislation. The world would not even shrug. They would think we had it coming for 'stealing' the land.

 

[fantasticfred]

I know it's never tasteful to put such emotional issues like murder down to statistics. But if we were to suggest blacks were carrying out a genocide against whites , let's do the sums.

The black murder rate in south Africa according to the MRC is 40 per 100 000. The coloured murder rate is 80 per 100 000. The white murder rate is 13 per 100 000 for men and 2.2 per 100 000 for women which we can average out at around 7.6 per 100 000 (assuming as many men as woman).

So assuming no population growth how long would it take to kill off the white population ?

40 million blacks at 40 per 100 000 is 16 000 per year and at this rate could last 2500 years.
4 million whites killed at 308 per year would take them 12 987 years to complete.

So for the last 10 487 years who is killing the whites ? This is a very badly thought out genocide.

 

[wily me]

I know it's never tasteful to put such emotional issues like murder down to statistics. But if we were to suggest blacks were carrying out a genocide against whites , let's do the sums.

The black murder rate in south Africa according to the MRC is 40 per 100 000. The coloured murder rate is 80 per 100 000. The white murder rate is 13 per 100 000 for men and 2.2 per 100 000 for women which we can average out at around 7.6 per 100 000 (assuming as many men as woman).

So assuming no population growth how long would it take to kill off the white population ?

40 million blacks at 40 per 100 000 is 16 000 per year and at this rate could last 2500 years.
4 million whites killed at 308 per year would take them 12 987 years to complete.

So for the last 10 487 years who is killing the whites ? This is a very badly thought out genocide.

How the hell did you get from farm murders to killing all whites? Maybe that's the plan in the in the longer shedule but land "reforms" is a current political issue easily solved by specific targeting or allowing the targeting to flourish!

 

[saffakanera]

Counts for the fact that they have been fed bogus information. Plus they're a anti immigrant party so their politics isn't exactly hard to see through. I'm south African and I don't see what they see.



Yes there have been some terrible murders. But as another poster pointed out if you just look at how black people are murdered every day you will find far more disgusting acts carried out with no political agenda. Our country has a lot of violent acts. We need to come to the cause of it. I find the idea that it's government sanctioned as you go on to hint at absolutely absurd.



According to the T.A.U the trend is on a downward spiral. Last year saw the least ever farm murders since 1987.

The inhumane brutality is in some cases apparent. Mostly not. 2% of farm attacks that take place when the people are at home result in murder. almost always the wife or children are spared. It's not a coincidence we can all name the exception when a young child was murdered. I can not in anyway defend these crimes. I get a thrill when they catch the perps and want as much as the next family man to put a crow bar to their skulls. But that's no reason for me to read things into it that just aren't there such as government sanctioned murder or genocide. If the a.n.c wanted whites off the farms they could do it in one easy piece of legislation. The world would not even shrug. They would think we had it coming for 'stealing' the land.

Why the hell do you think I'm somehow trying to gauge the horror of what is being committed against Afrikaners with others? I am talking with relevance to the OP and what is being committed, specifically, to Afrikaners!

Why do you start attacking me on grounds that others also suffer under crime? Yes yes a thousand flippen times yes other people do suffer as victims from murder, rape etc as well in this country. My issue is with THIS group of South Africans, from THIS cultural group. MY cultural group.

focus my seun, focus.

EDIT: My point. In the case of farm murders. ONE Afrikaner killed is TOO MANY.

EDIT EDIT: And if you were trolling this thread to get a nice adrenaline high for the evening, you deserved to be BLIKSEMED.

 

[fantasticfred]

How the hell did you get from farm murders to killing all whites? Maybe that's the plan in the in the longer shedule but land "reforms" is a current political issue easily solved by specific targeting or allowing the targeting to flourish!

The a.n.c just has to click its fingers and whites would be on the next great trek. They don't need trickery to do it, they are the baas. the idea that some a.n.c guy is somewhere arming and encouraging black people to go out and kill farmers is so absurd to me. Anyone who says that to you next time I don't want you to react. I just want you to make a mental memory note to never take that person seriously again. Then just smile, give him a pat on the back and buy the poor deluded bastard a tequila.

Tell me if you disagree with any of the following statements. Or question my sources and I will provide them. But it is late and I have a game of poker to attend to so you might wait until morning. I have no cards up my sleeve, and these are genuinely the best sources available.

1) The T.A.U has the most complete resources to determine how many farmers have been murdered.
2) They state that of ALL RACES around 1200 farmers and family have been murdered since 1990.
3) There are 39 000 commercial farms in South Africa. and around 200 000 farming small holdings. No one would argue that the people farming on these described places are not farmers.
4) A commercial farm on average operates with tens even hundreds of farmers. It's conservative to say on one commercial farm at least 10 farmers reside.
5) A small holding probably on average only holds around a family of 4.
6) Hence it's very conservative to guess at approximately 1 200 000 farmers in South Africa.
7) The murder rate can thus be said to be 5.5 per 100 000 farmers.
8) Which is around 66 individuals a year .
9) If you agree with the following then it would in fact take over 18 000 years for farmers to be wiped out by genocide. Less than that of whites.

 

[Flanders]

Right, so black people are the problem.

And now?

I'm still waiting, you haven't given anything new to the table.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I explained in an earlier post that I was not condemning an entire race.

My solution? E-fsckin'-radicate these bastards completely and fight for what is ours. That's the perps, boramk, not the race. From the peoples' perspective this can only be reactive. From the government's perspective, it should be proactive. There needs to be such an example set that these cowardly sacks of excrement, through fear if nothing else, are forever held at bay. This needs to be a collective effort by the people and by government. As radical as it may be, township mob justice, for example, is a step in the right direction in my opinion but only because those entrusted to keep us safe and the crims off the street cannot do so. This is what happens when you have a people willing to stand together in the face of a government who does nothing. Once again...government. It would require a total overhaul. Problem? Big time. Until then we're screwed.

The people running this country are the epitome of what I describe as being the problem and until they're dead or in jail where they belong, nothing will change.

 

[wily me]

Tell me if you disagree with any of the following statements. Or question my sources and I will provide them. But it is late and I have a game of poker to attend to so you might wait until morning. I have no cards up my sleeve, and these are genuinely the best sources available.

1) The T.A.U has the most complete resources to determine how many farmers have been murdered.
2) They state that of ALL RACES around 1200 farmers and family have been murdered since 1990.
3) There are 39 000 commercial farms in South Africa. and around 200 000 farming small holdings. No one would argue that the people farming on these described places are not farmers.
4) A commercial farm on average operates with tens even hundreds of farmers. It's conservative to say on one commercial farm at least 10 farmers reside.
5) A small holding probably on average only holds around a family of 4.
6) Hence it's very conservative to guess at approximately 1 200 000 farmers in South Africa.
7) The murder rate can thus be said to be 5.5 per 100 000 farmers.
8) Which is around 66 individuals a year (so the maths works in both directions suggesting the estimate is reasonably accurate. the numbers given by T.A.U show an average of 66 murders a year and when you divide 1200*18 that's what you find but it's also what you find when you take 5.5 per 100 000 and account for 1 200 000 individuals (5.5 * 12 (the 12 being the difference between 100 and 1 200 000).
9) If you agree with the following then it would in fact take over 18 000 years for farmers to be wiped out by genocide. Less than that of whites.

Don't even bother you cannot even read and comprehend what I said. Good luck boy!

 

[boramk]

Wait, hang on that's not- oh wait, never mind, just a troll.

Seriously though, what the hell is wrong with you? Are you on speed? Don't try and grind down on me for trying to acknowledge that my people are dealing with a definite and brutal crime being committed against us. You flew into this thread at 600KMph with a primitive aggression that is not appreciated.

There was no aggression. Point out the "aggresive" sentence or phrase by me I beg beg you.

And once again, there are brutal crimes to every people. Your people are no more special than my people who are no more special than those people. If you only see your people as an issue and not just other people than you shouldn't have mentioned you were a Christian because that's not what a Christian is supposed to do.

Understand now or are you going to tomiss my point again?

 

[boramk]

Flanders, forgive me because I'm on my phone but if you didn't mean race, what did on mean by multiculturalism?

And if your point was as you say to "eradicate" the perpetrators than why bring up multiculturalism?

 

[fantasticfred]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I explained in an earlier post that I was not condemning an entire race.

If that was not your intention I would never have guessed from observing just about everything you have to say on this forum. You sure fooled me.

 

[fantasticfred]

Flanders, forgive me because I'm on my phone but if you didn't mean race, what did on mean by multiculturalism?

And if your point was as you say to "eradicate" the perpetrators than why bring up multiculturalism?

And why bring up the fact that the perps are mostly black ? What did that have to do with his holistic message ?

 

[wily me]

And why bring up the fact that the perps are mostly black ? What did that have to do with his holistic message ?

I am trying hard to find a recollection of any case where the farm murders were perpetrated by another specific group? Care to share that information?

Facts are just that, FACTS!

 

[fantasticfred]

I am trying hard to find a recollection of any case where the farm murders were perpetrated by another specific group? Care to share that information?

Facts are just that, FACTS!

And the facts are that when non farmers are murdered (448 of them were murdered for every one farmer (white or not) last year) it's most likely to be at the hands of a young black male. I could also interchange that with young poor male and it would still be true. What is your point ?

Do you think no farmers were killed by whites ? That's purely in your mind if you do. But yes in a country where 80% of the population is black and almost 100% of the poorest people are black, and almost 90% of murderers are males, you are probably going to find that the people who in almost all countries make up the biggest group of murderers....the young poor males....are going to be black.

But it's you bringing up they are mostly black males. So what do you want me to conclude from that ? What is the point you are trying to make ?

 

[boramk]

wily me you missed the point.
We know blacks commit the most crime. The point was why bring it up in this thread? For what purpose?