Fires in Australia

phaktza said:
No, that was the hottest recorded temperature. The hottest recorded day was this summer. You don't evaluate change on the basis of a single event, but the impact overall.
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OK I'll take that one statement back. My mistake.

Is that all you read though? I mean these fires are a single localised event so by your own approach you're doing exactly what you say others shouldn't do.
 
Pegasus said:
I wonder what will become of him if his climate claims turn out to be incorrect?
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I wonder what will become of us if his climate claims turn out to be correct?
 
phaktza said:
No, that was the hottest recorded temperature. The hottest recorded day was this summer. You don't evaluate change on the basis of a single event, but the impact overall.
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The hottest recorded temperature is the hottest day not that we really have good data on that our data collection wasn't that good before computers. If you want to BS your way around that with averages you are being dishonest and comparing apples and oranges. Then it means nothing.
 
rietrot said:
The hottest recorded temperature is the hottest day not that we really have good data on that our data collection wasn't that good before computers. If you want to BS your way around that with averages you are being dishonest and comparing apples and oranges. Then it means nothing.
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No I looked it up he's right. It's a temperature recording at Oodnadatta around 50.7 °C. That doesn't equate to the hottest day which in recorded history is in fact December 17th.
 
Moosedrool said:
No I looked it up he's right. It's a temperature recording at Oodnadatta around 50.7 °C. That doesn't equate to the hottest day which in recorded history is in fact December 17th.
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The "hottest day" is an avarerge. We don't have proper comparative data, especially if you look back to other hot periods because people didn't bother to get up and record the temperature at 2 am in the morning in the middle of nowhere like computers do today.

You won't find propper comparative data for the 1960's nevermind the 1910's were there were plenty of hi temperatures recorded, many record highs.

That's just the last 100 years. 100 years is nothing when it comes to climate change and then the data becomes even more questionable.
 
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Cray said:
Don't stress, Ben Shapiro has it covered....:D

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Well you have to wonder why prominent leftist buy seaside property if they believed their own BS.

At least I'm safe 500km away from the ocean.
 
Moosedrool said:
I've never been a climate change denier. If you pump material into the atmosphere with a higher optic density you are destabilising a system. Heat gets trapped and CO2 buildup accelerates. I don't think it's not a serious problem the world shouldn't address.

However.

I am a "Carbotaxwillfixeverything" denier,
a "Theworldwillendin15years" denier
and a "Firesaretheresultofclimatechange" denier.

Over a 800 year period Australia has become a drier country. There is no baseline control to indicate that this wouldn't have happened if you eliminate human induced heating throughout this period on a global level. Many and I mean nearly all crazies call the above statement climate change denial and it isn't. It's being sceptical of a very specific claim.

This is my issue with the whole doomsday crowd. A long track tornado can tear its way through Roodepoort and they'll point to climate change. It's absurd. And if it happens again 2 years later they'll use it as confirmation. Yet these events actually do happen occasionally and might seem like strange coincidences to the inexperienced. Not the scientists actually measuring warming and doing the real work though, the crazies who's life has been cared for in such a manner that any event or change from their content tranquil environments is somehow out of the ordinary.
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Ye, I think its useful to separate the two things:

1: We are polluting and destroying the planet.
2: Our climate is changing

There are two things that are controversial about what is happening:

1: The one is causing the other
2: We can somehow undo this climate change and get the system back to what suits us better

Then we look at the Australian bush fires, how much is because of humans ?

1: Its probable that some of the fire is arson
2: There is large scale deforestation happening already
3: People are already interfering with the natural fire process which is making the fire worse (Not letting fires burn out naturally)
4: Roads, buildings and fences make it hard for animals to escape
5: Droughts are made worse by humans excessive use of water.

So even though the greenies might be crazy these fires are largely a man made problem.
 
yebocan said:
Humorous commentary - but the scene of destruction and human suffering ... the wildlife, :crying::crying:
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Indeed. The devastation to the flora and fauna is heartbreaking. I saw some videos of the aftermath to some animals - broke my heart - seeing burnt-out kangaroos and koalas.

What's even sadder is I doubt the powers that be around the globe will take heed or proper lessons from this.
Climate change denialists irk me to no end.
 
rietrot said:
That's just the last 100 years. 100 years is nothing when it comes to climate change and then the data becomes even more questionable.
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100% correct.
And that is exactly why the increase we've seen in the past 30 or 40 years is so insane when taken into account over geologic time.

Whereas previous fluctuations in climate had a "natural" cause, like abnormal vulcanism frequency and events due to plate tectonics and layout, meteorites, massive ancient coal beds catching fire from volcanic activity, huge changes to ocean microbes and atmospheric composition (like the great Oxidation event), etc. and occurred over much longer periods... this time there's no other "abnormal" event(s) except the massive amounts of stored carbon humans are releasing in such a short time.

It's really as simple as that.
Forget the crazies, forget the politics, forget the partisan nature of this subject.... the science on this issue is incredibly solid and it would be nice if everyone can get on board with the reality and take it from there to figure out how to react instead of screaming at each other over the fence.
 
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Nerfherder said:
Ye, I think its useful to separate the two things:

1: We are polluting and destroying the planet.
2: Our climate is changing

There are two things that are controversial about what is happening:

1: The one is causing the other
2: We can somehow undo this climate change and get the system back to what suits us better

Then we look at the Australian bush fires, how much is because of humans ?

1: Its probable that some of the fire is arson
2: There is large scale deforestation happening already
3: People are already interfering with the natural fire process which is making the fire worse (Not letting fires burn out naturally)
4: Roads, buildings and fences make it hard for animals to escape
5: Droughts are made worse by humans excessive use of water.

So even though the greenies might be crazy these fires are largely a man made problem.
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Yes. So let's tackle those that we know are real.
 
RaptorSA said:
100% correct.
And that is exactly why the increase we've seen in the past 30 or 40 years is so insane when taken into account over geologic time.

Whereas previous fluctuations in climate usually had a "natural" cause, like abnormal vulcanism frequency and events due to plate tectonics and layout, meteorites, massive ancient coal beds catching fire from volcanic activity, huge changes to ocean microbes and atmospheric composition (like the great Oxidation event), etc. and occurred over much longer periods... this time there's no other "abnormal" event(s) except the massive amounts of stored carbon humans are releasing in such a short time.

It's really as simple as that.
Forget the crazies, forget the politics, forget the partisan nature of this subject.... the science on this issue is incredibly solid and it would be nice if everyone can get on board with the reality and take it from there to figure out how to react instead of screaming at each other over the fence.
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We haven't really seen an abnormal increase. The Michael Mann hockey stick nonsense have been shown to be lies and fraud.


But please do share what you are doing in your own life to decrease your carbon footprint. Maybe atart a threat for that.
 
You all have this wrong, its not Climate Change....

Its the Hawks
blog.nature.org

Australian “Firehawk” Raptors Intentionally Spread Wildfires

At least three Australian raptor species intentionally spread wildfires by carrying smoldering branches to unburnt areas, according to a new paper that confirms long-held traditional Aboriginal knowledge.
blog.nature.org blog.nature.org
 
Moosedrool said:
Many people are starting to put blame on green peace movements for forcing the Australian government to outlaw controlled firebreaks.
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Yes, "many people" are saying completely stupid, discredited things. Such is life, I guess.

Moosedrool said:
I've never been a climate change denier. If you pump material into the atmosphere with a higher optic density you are destabilising a system. Heat gets trapped and CO2 buildup accelerates. I don't think it's not a serious problem the world shouldn't address.

However.

I am a "Carbotaxwillfixeverything" denier,
a "Theworldwillendin15years" denier
and a "Firesaretheresultofclimatechange" denier.

Over a 800 year period Australia has become a drier country. There is no baseline control to indicate that this wouldn't have happened if you eliminate human induced heating throughout this period on a global level. Many and I mean nearly all crazies call the above statement climate change denial and it isn't. It's being sceptical of a very specific claim.

This is my issue with the whole doomsday crowd. A long track tornado can tear its way through Roodepoort and they'll point to climate change. It's absurd. And if it happens again 2 years later they'll use it as confirmation. Yet these events actually do happen occasionally and might seem like strange coincidences to the inexperienced. Not the scientists actually measuring warming and doing the real work though, the crazies who's life has been cared for in such a manner that any event or change from their content tranquil environments is somehow out of the ordinary.
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So, not a climate change denier... but will pretend hysterical caricatures are representative of people concerned about the problem and base your response on that. Okay then.

RaptorSA said:
No.
He's a mammologist and palaeontologist who served as a commissioner on a climate commission... but even if he was a prominent climate scientist it wouldn't matter.
When making irrelevant points at least get the facts straight.

Tons of people make stupid statements about climate change so we can play this game all day, it makes no difference to the actual scientific literature on the topic.
If you really want to prove a point then find us a proper peer-reviewed and accepted paper that made these kinds of predictions so we can all laugh together.
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Worth pointing out that Alan predictably did not do what you asked here, but also that the part of Flannery's quote that Alan cut off is this:

"...when we stand under threat of a rapidly warming Arctic Ocean, when we're starting to see the first destabilisation of the Greenland ice cap..."

And whaddyaknow, this is what's happening.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
So, not a climate change denier... but will pretend hysterical caricatures are representative of people concerned about the problem and base your response on that. Okay then.
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Maybe if you remove the hysteria and attitude more rational people who didn't dig into the facts will start jumping aboard and have a look for themselves.

The only thing the world see with the crazies is severe hypocrisy. And then they expect a carbon tax to solve all the problems which has no long term benefits and only boils to the consumer population (which is still increasing) to pay more for basic needs.

Maybe I should also fly on a private jet to 3rd world countries and preach to the poorest people there to eat less cow meat. That will help.
 
Moosedrool said:
Maybe if you remove the hysteria and attitude more rational people who didn't dig into the facts will start jumping aboard and have a look for themselves. The only thing the world see with the crazies is severe hypocrisy.
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You seem to be substituting yourself for "the world". And just because your online information ecosystem feeds you 'hysteria' to feed this meaningless little outrage-cycle, it doesn't mean it's what everyone else spends all their time on.

It is incredibly easy to get credible, engaging information on the topic if you were so inclined.

Moosedrool said:
And then they expect a carbon tax to solve all the problems which has no long term benefits and only boils to the consumer population (which is still increasing) to pay more for basic needs.
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Who are you talking about exactly?
 
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