Freedom from racism

[-toady-]

David Bullard Collumn in the Sunday Times

Normally this would be an ideal recipe for gloom and self-pity, but I am determined to regard this whole dreadful business in a positive light. I will definitely not be leaving South Africa and my optimism for the future of this country has been strengthened rather than weakened. We live in the most beautiful country and are blessed with the finest people you could imagine, therefore good must eventually triumph over evil. If I can believe that, then so can you and you must — otherwise we are all lost. Warfare is all about breaking down the spirit of the people and our rampant crime is a particularly ugly form of warfare.

The word “tsunami” is loosely bandied about these days but it’s the only word I can think of to describe the reaction to my shooting. The energy I have gained from the hundreds of supportive letters, SMSs, e-mails and cards I have received has been quite phenomenal (they will all be read) and I am feeling, if not looking, 100%. This incident must be used positively and it is my intention to become far more involved with my local community- policing forum and with the fight against crime in general.

In the few lines left I’d like to thank fellow members of the media for their tremendous support, the police and medics who looked after this pathetic bleeding figure on the night of March 7, the doctors and staff at Milpark Hospital and particularly you, the wonderful readers of the Sunday Times, who bought tears of gratitude to my eyes. Bless you and thank you.



Well said.

x2...

toady

 

[StrongTurd]

Mbeki clearly lashes out only at white-on-black racism, meanwhile black-on-white racism has become an enormous scourge and is growing every day ... this is nothing other than an attempt to beat whites even further into passive "guilty" submission for fear of being considered racist etc. and I will not stand for this crap anymore. We have been bullied into becoming trampled victims, it's a massively powerful mechanism for controlling people, wake up, we are being manipulated with this BS. The message is now that a white employer who attempts to fire a bad black worker is automatically guilty of racism and may not even speak up if the employee plays the race card - something which is a very real problem! We are being silenced and our hands being tied. Learn an African language and discover the wonderful world of just how prevalent black-on-white racism is (e.g. get publicly called filthy trash by the smiling store clerk 'helping' you just for walking into the store, or get called a filthy "Leburu" by the very person you are helping with something, and so on). I'm sick of being called the bad guy just for being white. This is an attempt to rile blacks and further the subjugation of whites by blacks DISGUISED as phony reconciliatory babble.

The most ironic thing is that in the new South Africa, white on black racism is now actually so rare that ONE INCIDENT of a white guy insulting some blacks on a train MAKES HEADLINE NEWS ... think about that for a moment. If it was such a common problem, how can this be? On the other hand it happens every day that blacks insult whites and whites and blacks just all accept it (or whites don't even know it's happening because we don't know the languages). In this New South Africa, I've gone about ten years without even HEARING the "K word" (and even now it's only heard in a "meta" sense in a discussion about racism, not even actual usage of the word). That's how far things have turned around.

One of the best posts that I've ever seen on this forum.

 

[BobbyMac]

T-Bone's legacy of denial continues. May he be remembered for denying anything exists. Aids, Crime, Black Racism...

 

[xtermin8or]

Racism is enshrined in our constitution (thanks ANC!) thus we will never get over it.

The constitution is the product of a wide consultative process

After nearly two years of intensive consultations, political parties represented in the Constitutional Assembly negotiated the formulations contained in this text, which are an integration of ideas from ordinary citizens, civil society and political parties represented in and outside of the Constitutional Assembly. This Constitution therefore represents the collective wisdom of the South African people and has been arrived at by general agreement.

Constitution-making Body

(1) The National Assembly and the Senate, sitting jointly for the purposes of this Chapter, shall be the Constitutional Assembly.

(2) The Constitutional Assembly shall draft and adopt a new constitutional text in accordance with this Chapter.

(3)

The first sitting of the Constitutional Assembly shall be convened by the President of the Senate not later than seven days as from the first sitting of the Senate under this Constitution.
Any subsequent sittings of the Constitutional Assembly shall be convened by the Chairperson of the Constitutional Assembly after consultation with the Speaker and the President of the Senate.
(4) Subject to the rules and orders contemplated in section 70 and save where clearly inappropriate, sections 55 and 56 and the provisions of this Constitution with regard to joint sittings of the National Assembly and the Senate shall apply mutatis mutandis in respect of the Constitutional Assembly.

At the time of adoption of the Constitution - Kobie Coetsee was President of the Senate


For more details on how the constitutional provision is applied, you can read

PROMOTION OF EQUALITY AND
PREVENTION OF UNFAIR
DISCRIMINATION ACT

(1)It is not unfair discrimination to take measures designed to protect or advance persons or categories of persons disadvantaged by unfair discrimination or the members of such groups or categories of persons.

(2) In determining whether the respondent has proved that the discrimination is fair,
the following must be taken into account:

(a) The context;​

(b) the factors referred to in subsection (3);​

(c) whether the discrimination reasonably and justifiably differentiates between persons according to objectively determinable criteria, intrinsic to the activity concerned.​

(3) The factors referred to in subsection (2)(b) include the following:

(a) Whether the discrimination impairs or is likely to impair human dignity;​

(b) the impact or likely impact of the discrimination on the complainant;​

(c) the position of the complainant in society and whether he or she suffers from patterns of disadvantage or belongs to a group that suffers from such patterns of disadvantage;​

(d) the nature and extent of the discrimination;​

(e) whether the discrimination is systemic in nature;​

(f) whether the discrimination has a legitimate purpose;​

(g) whether and to what extent the discrimination achieves its purpose;​

(h) whether there are less restrictive and less disadvantageous means to achieve the purpose;​

(i) whether and to what extent the respondent has taken such steps as being reasonable in the circumstances to—​

(i) address the disadvantage which arises from or is related to one or more
of the prohibited grounds; or​

(ii) accommodate diversity.​

 

[BobbyMac]

All discrimination is unfair. To say anything otherwise is simply eroding the definition of the word "discrimination".

 

[Sneeky]

The constitution is the product of a wide consultative process

Thats all very pleasant reading , but it does not detract from the fact that racism is enshrined in our constitution.

BEE is now also preventing longstanding businesses from doing business if they are not compliant. Not unlike landgrabs in ZIM, this is moneygrabbing in SA.

 

[xtermin8or]

All discrimination is unfair, unless it is proven to be fair

Women are not allowed in Mosques, is that unfair discrimination, nightclubs have age restrictions is that unfair discrimination, certain restaurants have dress codes, is that unfair discrimination ?

 

[Sneeky]

All discrimination is unfair, unless it is proven to be fair

and you cant see where the problem is here!

 

[BobbyMac]

Discrimination, by definition, is always unfair. Period.

 

[icyrus]

All discrimination is unfair, unless it is proven to be fair

Women are not allowed in Mosques, is that unfair discrimination, nightclubs have age restrictions is that unfair discrimination, certain restaurants have dress codes, is that unfair discrimination ?

Discrimination is unfair, the question you're which ones are acceptable to society and obviously each person will have a different answer. Age restrictions and dress code are relatively mild (I think most people will agree) but gender and race? Now there is a minefield. Personally I don't consider any discrimination between race or gender to be acceptable, but hey, thats just me. I'd prefer it if we were all equal. I guess that is a pipedream in this country.

 

[Sneeky]

The mind boggles at this absolute and blatant racism under the auspices of fairness.

There is an Italian mining company that is planning to sue over the BEE mining charter and rightly so, it is about time business took a stand.

Others just roll over like Reunert and to appease their masters they dish out 2.8% of their shares to FOUR PEOPLE. (+-R460million in total)
BEElieve it!

the previousely disadvantaged 4
Cheryl Carolus
Wendy Lucas-Bull
Dolly Mokgatle
Thandi Orleyn

its a damn joke man

 

[xtermin8or]

The technical definition of Discrimination is from the Latin - Discriminare - which means to distinguish between - so you can fairly or unfairly distinguish between people

It is important to understand the difference between fair and unfair discrimination. Although someone may have experienced discrimination, it is only when the discrimination is “unfair” that they will be successful in attaining a remedy from the equality courts. If the discrimination impairs one’s dignity, is systemic, has no legitimate purpose, does not reasonably and justifiably differentiate between persons according to objectively determined criteria, it is likely “unfair” discrimination. For example, if a restaurant owner will not serve people because they are black, it is not fair discrimination. The only reason for the restaurant owner’s refusal is racism and prejudice.

Fair discrimination does exist if there is good reason for the discrimination and different treatment of a person or individuals. For example, while it is discriminatory for a bus company to refuse to hire blind bus drivers as they are discriminating against blind people on the basis of disability, it is a bona fide occupational requirement that a bus driver be able to see.

In determining whether the discrimination is fair or unfair, perhaps the most important step is to consider the context of the discrimination and what reasons may exist in that individual situation.

 

[ToxicBunny]

xt : You don't seem to get this concept... discrimination in any way shape or form, is ALWAYS unfair..... there is never a good reason to discriminate, but there may be an acceptable reason.

 

[BobbyMac]

Discrimination, by definition, is always unfair. Period.

Coat it in honey all you want. It is unfair by all definitions.

 

[Sneeky]

Ok, now that we have the blind busdriver and the restaurant sorted how about this.

Self startup family chemical import business. Operating for 8 years. Supplies major industry and municipal labs. Told by increasing number of customers that despite impeccable service history and good client relationships the business will be lost to BEE compliant firms. FAIR?

 

[xtermin8or]

xt : You don't seem to get this concept... discrimination in any way shape or form, is ALWAYS unfair..... there is never a good reason to discriminate, but there may be an acceptable reason.

So you would employ the blind bus driver

@ BobbyMac - I thought I pointed it out clearly, when I gave you the definition of the word - it means to distinguish, tell apart, and this can be done fairly and is at times even necessary

 

[icyrus]

In determining whether the discrimination is fair or unfair, perhaps the most important step is to consider the context of the discrimination and what reasons may exist in that individual situation.

You see, you are in this precarious position of being required to reason and explain why some forms of racism are "fair" or, correctly, acceptable.

For me, racism cannot be acceptable. It just cannot while we wish to have an equal and free society. If you believe racism can be justified under certain conditions, then that is your prerogative, just don't expect that everyone will agree and be happy about it.

The true cost of these policies will only be seen in a number of years. Hopefully by then we will have a government with vision that wont keep repeating the same mistakes.

 

[xtermin8or]

Ok, now that we have the blind busdriver and the restaurant sorted how about this.

Self startup family chemical import business. Operating for 8 years. Supplies major industry and municipal labs. Told by increasing number of customers that despite impeccable service history and good client relationships the business will be lost to BEE compliant firms. FAIR?

This startup family business, could look into partnerships with other businesses to achieve BEE status, and not lose their business. The problem is that businesses like these refuse to transform and so will have to suffer the consequences. Now I am not saying that they have to give up their business, or give half of the shares away, but they can find black businesses or business people they can team up with for mutual benefit

 

[BobbyMac]

So you would employ the blind bus driver

@ BobbyMac - I thought I pointed it out clearly, when I gave you the definition of the word - it means to distinguish, tell apart, and this can be done fairly and is at times even necessary

So you give the etymological meaning of the word and try to pass it off as the current meaning of the word?

What a horrible logic routine you have there mate.

 

[Tassidar]

So you would employ the blind bus driver

@ BobbyMac - I thought I pointed it out clearly, when I gave you the definition of the word - it means to distinguish, tell apart, and this can be done fairly and is at times even necessary

So then, XT, what is your definition of fair discrimination. I accept that blind bus drivers should not be discriminated against, but why white employees and white owned companies. Does that not by your own definitions constitute unfair discrimination?

According to the sufferers of apartheid, discrimination according to race clearly impaired peoples dignity. Yet, we are seeing the same discrimination according to race.

Ironically, however, this again impairs black peoples dignity, since it implies that they will not be able to make it in life without handouts.