"Gaming" NFTs, a dedicated thread

[Fulcrum29]

Cnet is pushing Gaming NFTs hard.

The Video Game Industry Was Hot on NFTs. Then Came Hacks and a Market Meltdown

As the industry reconsiders digital ownership, gamers are eyeing the line between playing to earn and playing for fun.

www.cnet.com

Not going to quote the whole article, but to quote a section,

Gaming companies are split​

Just because NFTs can go in video games doesn't mean they should. This is the view not just of concerned experts, but also some gamers themselves.

And while many in the industry are open to NFT integration, it's not universal. Phil Spencer, Microsoft's head of gaming, says he's wary of NFTs. Steam, one of the largest digital video-game stores in the world, outright banned blockchain-related video games. When you account for the negative backlash Ubisoft received for introducing NFTs in Ghost Recon, its trepidation toward blockchain technology makes perfect sense.

More than half of game developers are interested in NFT and blockchain technology, according to one recent survey. However, if the Ubisoft backlash continues as other major developers experiment with NFTs, this era of gaming may be short-lived, and P2E games like Axie Infinity will become footnotes in video game history. So whether or not NFTs become a lasting trend in the gaming world depends on the gamers. As always, the players decide, and the market will answer.

Compared to yesterday's The Verge article...

My best guess is that people who are already invested in NFTs needs to champion it, otherwise their investments are made less valuable or spoiled. Gamers, especially now with game streaming gone mainstream, see income opportunities, though I will highly advise not to solely rely on it as I have come across people who believe that gaming can be an occupation, yeah, it can be, but it is encumbered and hence will be incredibly competitive, so please do broaden your horizon.

 

[Fulcrum29]

To compare two surveys on which two recent articles were based,

Video Game Developers Reveal Overwhelming Appetite for Blockchain and NFT Technology in a New Research Study from Stratis

/PRNewswire/ -- A majority of respondents said they would consider using these innovations in new games, with DeFi, NFTs and play to earn models considered as...

www.prnewswire.com

NOVEMBER 10, 2021

Video Game Developers Reveal Overwhelming Appetite for Blockchain and NFT Technology in a New Research Study from Stratis​

Demonstrating an appetite for blockchain and NFTs, 72% of respondents said they would consider using these technologies for new games with 56% planning to do so in the next 12 months. Meanwhile, 64% believe that blockchain technology will become prevalent in video gaming within the next two years, while 53% agree that NFTs would be more common by then too.

GDC State Of The Game Industry 2022: Devs Weigh in on NFTs, Unions, and More

We found developers are working to improve accessibility in gaming; they’re mixed on the viability of Steam Deck; and they have questions about bringing cryptocurrency or non-fungible tokens (NFTs) into the gaming sphere.

gdconf.com

JANUARY 20, 2022

Interest in cryptocurrencies and NFTs grows, but game developers remain skeptical

Two of the hottest, and polarizing, topics being debated in the game industry are cryptocurrency and non-fungible tokens (NFTs). While the majority of developers said that they and their studio are not interested in cryptocurrency (72%) as a payment tool or in NFTs (70%), for such a nascent space, 27% percent of developers are at least somewhat interested in cryptocurrency at their studio and 28% are at least somewhat interested in NFTs.

Got to love sampling.

 

[Fulcrum29]

OT, so Elon Musk recently hit out at Twitter endorsing NFTs through incorporating it into their service,

Twitter is spending engineering resources on this bs while crypto scammers are throwing a spambot block party in every thread!?

Then a Twitter GM replied, sometime later, that the Twitter Dev Team will attend to Musk's matter, but the GM is rubbing it in, him with his Vogu Metaverse NFT on display.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1484744052943704067

Not that I have an issue with it, but the NFT avatars are being punted hard, and I know that it will come to AAA gaming in 2022. Reddit is also now trialling the NFT avatars...

From my perspective, the NFT opponents lost. Whether you want it or not, you have no choice other than to have it. I had a look at many NFT collections, and the uniqueness is like randomised Borderlands' weapon drops... it is still common, but randomised. The metaverse tokens are AI-generated with a common properties pool.

So much being punted as the metaverse is still Valve’s Steam being copied, all what is missing is AR to make that what is being marketed real.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

I don't care about gaming NFTs or NFTs in general. I don't see how it really changes anything.

NFTs, like cryptocurrency, have the "record of ownership" on the blockchain, right? It makes sense for currency which anyone can choose to accept or not accept.
Gaming NFTs, not so much, since the in-game items are only usable in that game.

What, from a gamer/customer perspective is the difference between selling your Dota 2 skin on the Steam Marketplace vs selling it on some NFT exchange? You supposedly get a bigger cut of the price, but surely the exchange will also charge a commission?

Someone mentioned interoperability. What does this mean? Using skins from one game in another game? That will have to be specifically enabled on all games that support it. And by "enable" I mean another skin needs to be created as you can't just use the Kratos model in Fortnite as is. Speaking of Kratos in Fortnite, we've been having "skin sharing" across games, and if studios wanted to enable a skin bought in Dota to be available in LoL if you own the Dota one, they would have. Just like they will have to enable it in the NFT era before anyone can do it.

NFTs to replace copy protection? How?
Instead of contacting Valve's servers on install/run to see if you own the game, they now check on the blockchain. OK? How is it any better or any more difficult to circumvent.
"BuT tHe BloCkChaIn CaNt Be hAckEd"
Yes, just like cracks don't hack valve's servers, they won't need to "hack the blockchain" to bypass NFT based copy protection. Unless I'm missing something?

The only way NFTs make sense, the only way they give any benefit over what we have today, is that they raise the cost of producing a digital asset and thereby enforcing scarcity and that you can't just willy-nilly make copies. You know if the creator says there are 10 of these dota 2 skins, there are really just 10, and you can trade them knowing they are limited edition. So they are great for collectors, not much else.

 

[Bobbin]

I would like to NFT my gamer tag so it is not stolen on other games. I bet streamers and content creators would jump at that, provided there is enough developer support to integrate it with their games and services.

There, I've already given someone a money making idea. Go get it.

 

[Bobbin]

Turning gaming assets into NFT's doesn't phase me much. But there may be some use cases. But it really is only to the extent of what their function is in the given game and whether developers support the same NFT's across various games or platforms to extend their life, which is a trust issue IMO.

One example of this already happening though is like the ICE Casino in Decentraland where you can only play on the tables if you own one of their wearables. So people see value in those wearables, it controls access and allows owners to rent out wearables in exchange for a percentage winnings to those who can't afford the wearable. Though I'm not big into gambling, just one case I saw.

I could also potentially see anti-cheat/banning occurring at an NFT level. Solves the hardware ID and IP spoofing issue. I say potentially though. I don't quite see how this would work without a privacy issue but haven't given it much thought.

Licensing could maybe work with NFT's. And that includes games not just software. Heck, even the music rights within games if we want to be super detailed, but that'd be a far off and weird future where everything we touch is contracted. Like capitalism 2.0 lol. Drink a red bull in PUBG on stream and they get smart contracted ad revenue or something

 

[Barbarian Conan]

Turning gaming assets into NFT's doesn't phase me much. But there may be some use cases. But it really is only to the extent of what their function is in the given game and whether developers support the same NFT's across various games or platforms to extend their life, which is a trust issue IMO.

One example of this already happening though is like the ICE Casino in Decentraland where you can only play on the tables if you own one of their wearables. So people see value in those wearables, it controls access and allows owners to rent out wearables in exchange for a percentage winnings to those who can't afford the wearable. Though I'm not big into gambling, just one case I saw.

I could also potentially see anti-cheat/banning occurring at an NFT level. Solves the hardware ID and IP spoofing issue. I say potentially though. I don't quite see how this would work without a privacy issue but haven't given it much thought.

Licensing could maybe work with NFT's. And that includes games not just software. Heck, even the music rights within games if we want to be super detailed, but that'd be a far off and weird future where everything we touch is contracted. Like capitalism 2.0 lol. Drink a red bull in PUBG on stream and they get smart contracted ad revenue or something

How?

Currently, they can ban a user account / email address. So, easy, you create a new email address, buy the game again, and you play with your new user account.
The solution is to create a hash with your hardware info, so they ban a specific hardware hash. To bypass that, they spoof hardware when they buy/install the game again so that the hash is new.

How will an NFT be linked to a person in a way that can't be done already?

 

[Bobbin]

How?

Currently, they can ban a user account / email address. So, easy, you create a new email address, buy the game again, and you play with your new user account.
The solution is to create a hash with your hardware info, so they ban a specific hardware hash. To bypass that, they spoof hardware when they buy/install the game again so that the hash is new.

How will an NFT be linked to a person in a way that can't be done already?

You sign into game with wallet. Wallet contains NFT. NFT gives license to play the game.
Now the trick is to associate the NFT to something immutable as well perhaps pointing to a hashed registry/db of sorts, binded to that wallet or wallet agnostic. But there's where a privacy issue comes about that I haven't given much thought. Maybe there's a way. Like with TPM or something. Meh I dunno. I might puzzle it out one day when in the mood I feel like something's possible with a high enough IQ lol but maybe not

 

[Barbarian Conan]

You sign into game with wallet. Wallet contains NFT. NFT gives license to play the game.
Now the trick is to associate the NFT to something immutable as well, binded to that wallet. But there's where a privacy issue comes about that I haven't given much thought. Maybe there's a way. Like with TPM or something. Meh I dunno. I might puzzle it out one day when in the mood I feel like something's possible with a high enough IQ lol but maybe not

Yes, that's the trick, and also the reason why NFTs are not any better than existing solutions.
If you can use the TPM to sign something to do with the NFT, you can also use it to sign anything else and link it to the account.
Link the NFT to an ID number? OK, then also just link the account to an ID number.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I would like to NFT my gamer tag so it is not stolen on other games. I bet streamers and content creators would jump at that, provided there is enough developer support to integrate it with their games and services.

There, I've already given someone a money making idea. Go get it.

You don’t own your gamer tag, and even though the blockchain is argued as some decentralised ecosystem, the gaming companies will build their own contained ecosystems on the blockchain. An NFT can be listed or delisted at any time, like your gamer tag. Unless you are in the view that Civic can be implemented to authorise an identity, but Civic has competition. Not to mention that Civic is vulnerable as they vetted and approved an NFT scam not too long ago, ouch.

Even in the case you desire a gamer tag, it will be open season, and you would need to pay handsomely, probably even rent it through a blockchain naming service. In the end, utilising the blockchain is a service.

Known content creators and streamers, especially those with a valuable likeness, do have their gamer tags/usernames booked in advance.

All I can see now with most details still being vague are crypto bros hoarding gamer tags and putting it up on auction. Just like NFTs.

 

[Bobbin]

You don’t own your gamer tag, and even though the blockchain is argued as some decentralised ecosystem, the gaming companies will build their own contained ecosystems on the blockchain. An NFT can be listed or delisted at any time, like your gamer tag. Unless you are in the view that Civic can be implemented to authorise an identity, but Civic has competition. Not to mention that Civic is vulnerable as they vetted and approved an NFT scam not too long ago, ouch.

Even in the case you desire a gamer tag, it will be open season, and you would need to pay handsomely, probably even rent it through a blockchain naming service. In the end, utilising the blockchain is a service.

Known content creators and streamers, especially those with a valuable likeness, do have their gamer tags/usernames booked in advance.

All I can see now with most details still being vague are crypto bros hoarding gamer tags and putting it up on auction. Just like NFTs.

Building Portable Gamertags with Web3 Domains

Buy .x, .crypto, .eth and other web3 domains to own your digital identity

unstoppabledomains.com

Well it seems others are thinking of doing it already. Binding it to a wallet address seems to potentially solve that problem.

I guess with the binding idea, there won't be a market for tag hoarders because it would be impractical to give out wallets to everyone who purchases from a tag hoarder when those people would rather use their own wallets that are already part of the ecosystem. It won't stop them, but I doubt people would want to run with ten different wallet account everywhere (I think?)

And then, coming back to the NFT anti-cheat issue @Barbarian Conan, while it doesn't stop someone from creating a whole new wallet and account and repurchasing an NFT, there's the whole idea of sunk cost if the wallet has been flagged and the cheater loses way more than just one account (his wallet gets flagged, which is decentralized and many platforms could choose to use that). I'm undecided if its the wallet that counts then or the NFT. But either way, losing one account on one platform or game is one thing, losing everything is another. So depending on what the NFT and/or wallet is binded to could be the trick?

I'm just spit-balling though Maybe there's also other functionality I'm not aware of that could help.

 

[Bobbin]

Another potential idea is that NFT's could stop duping issues in MMO's? Thoughts?

I'm just full of silly ideas aren't I Pretty sure I read this somewhere though so this one ain't mine I think.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

Building Portable Gamertags with Web3 Domains

Buy .x, .crypto, .eth and other web3 domains to own your digital identity

unstoppabledomains.com

Well it seems others are thinking of doing it already. Binding it to a wallet address seems to potentially solve that problem.

I guess with the binding idea, there won't be a market for tag hoarders because it would be impractical to give out wallets to everyone who purchases from a tag hoarder when those people would rather use their own wallets that are already part of the ecosystem. It won't stop them, but I doubt people would want to run with ten different wallet account everywhere (I think?)

And then, coming back to the NFT anti-cheat issue @Barbarian Conan, while it doesn't stop someone from creating a whole new wallet and account and repurchasing an NFT, there's the whole idea of sunk cost if the wallet has been flagged and the cheater loses way more than just one account (his wallet gets flagged, which is decentralized and many platforms could choose to use that). I'm undecided if its the wallet that counts then or the NFT. But either way, losing one account on one platform or game is one thing, losing everything is another. So depending on what the NFT and/or wallet is binded to could be the trick?

I'm just spit-balling though Maybe there's also other functionality I'm not aware of that could help.

So it is potentially wider ranging than for instance a Steam account?
I'm sure that if Valve wanted to, they could share an account's cheater status between different games, but how legal is that? Saying that if an account cheated in Dota, that they can't play anything else multiplayer? Block them from buying?
The same with Battle.Net accounts and Origin Accounts.

I think the type of person who really want to cheat, and want to do it badly enough that they would create multiple user accounts, especially paid games, would do the same for NFT wallets.

 

[Bobbin]

So it is potentially wider ranging than for instance a Steam account?
I'm sure that if Valve wanted to, they could share an account's cheater status between different games, but how legal is that? Saying that if an account cheated in Dota, that they can't play anything else multiplayer? Block them from buying?
The same with Battle.Net accounts and Origin Accounts.

I think the type of person who really want to cheat, and want to do it badly enough that they would create multiple user accounts, especially paid games, would do the same for NFT wallets.

Well, aren't we heading towards a dystopian future anyway? That one NFT will decide your rights one day, globally, from the corporations

/justkidding

 

[Fulcrum29]

Building Portable Gamertags with Web3 Domains

Buy .x, .crypto, .eth and other web3 domains to own your digital identity

unstoppabledomains.com

Well it seems others are thinking of doing it already. Binding it to a wallet address seems to potentially solve that problem.

I guess with the binding idea, there won't be a market for tag hoarders because it would be impractical to give out wallets to everyone who purchases from a tag hoarder when those people would rather use their own wallets that are already part of the ecosystem. It won't stop them, but I doubt people would want to run with ten different wallet account everywhere (I think?)

You will continue to deal with the same issues as inherent in the 'traditional' domain ecosystem, squatting, but squatting is a vague term. Most people squat to speculate, others squat to hold ‘property’ hostage, and then there is squatting, or rather parking, which makes business sense, to protect active property or property in development, but who determines when a domain is being maliciously squatted?

Unstoppable Domain already registers ‘premium’ names to be auctioned. Though they don’t reserve names, they do allow names to be pre-booked by valuable brands. For names with 5 letters or more, that is ~$5 per year, I believe, excluding gas, and it will increase. Crypto bros will squat domain names, and these types will automate these processes.

It is all smart contracts, people can enter them willingly, have a dispute with someone sitting on your gamer tag, well, then there are traditional legal remedies, but be sure that your gamer tag is a valuable global recognisable brand attached to your identity otherwise… eh. A person like Shroud has a likeness, his gamer tag is a brand that has also been endorsed, and there are many others I can add to this list, but some random pleb won't have these privileges. Most blockchain users want to be anonymous, in any case.

All I can say is that I predict many gamer tag username auctions in the time to come. This is already being done with ENS and the like.

I do see potential in the blockchain and have admired many technologies implemented, but where it wants to solve problems it is also creating new problems. Yes, it will continue to evolve, but it is not going to displace any traditional system any time soon.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

@Bobbin I do think the username thing is a good idea though. It should be relatively simple to implement, wouldn't cost the gaming companies anything in lost revenue, and would be a useful feature.

If it's optional. Imagine buying CoD, and when you want to create your username for the MP portion, you need to pay $5 in gas. GTFO.
Make it optional, but then what if a someone else creates that on the blockchain subsequently? So now you have to distinguish between blockchain and non blockchain usernames. There goes the uniqueness.

It is completely doable though and I would would like to have my username be mine, but not enough to pay R50 for it.

In the end I think there will be some "play to earn" games, but with that comes real incentive to cheat, so others can do the part-time-job type of game, I'll just play to have fun and not play those types of games. Even farming in Tarkov or Valheim can already be more of a chore than I would have liked.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Uhm...

Ubisoft Quartz NFTs only made $2,392, likely hurt by higher supply

The $164,000 success with Konami's one-of-a-kind Castlevania NFTs proves that Ubisoft's Quartz NFTs were hurt by massive supply.

www.tweaktown.com

Ubisoft Quartz NFTs only made $2,392, likely hurt by higher supply

The $164,000 success with Konami's one-of-a-kind Castlevania NFTs proves that Ubisoft's Quartz NFTs were hurt by massive supply.

Such an odd comparison, since it totally uncouples the respective goals.

1. Ubi is trialling their own NFT ecosystem with one title
2. Ubi's NFTs actually have utility, hence the supply
3. Ubi Quartz is by design made to compete with the Steam Marketplace

To quote Tweaktown,

This teaches us two things: Ubisoft's platform was mired in controversy and in-game cosmetic NFTs may not be the proper way to tap the market, and that speculative price markets don't mesh well with high supply and low demand.

and Tweaktown being a tech site, I am disappointed. Just shows that most people don't care about the utility in gaming NFTs, incl. the Tweaktown author.

 

[Soul Assassin]

 

[Fulcrum29]

I agree with him, but I don't think NFTs in gaming will be gone in two years. It is also the indie type companies whom are producing the 'scam' he highlights.

My stomach tells me that MS is going to drop NFTs on everyone, and everyone with a Game Pass sub will believe it is the best thing since in-game drops.

Many promote the 'scam', but others want to compete against the Steam Marketplace. I am sure the blockchain will power the cloud gaming economy, welcome metaverse.

 

[Bobbin]

Can't watch the video right now. But I think NFT's are just a tool. From which people are creating pyramid schemes. Just to be pedantic/specific.

So not sure that justifies calling the tool a scam, when people are using it to make scams?

May as well just call money a scam (lotta people might agree too lol)