Geyser device

daniellgr said:
The disconnect option is not a good solution as it is possible now to remotely detect if an installed ripple relay has been disconnected.
Your only options left are to change your usage pattern to accommodate the Eskom/municipal schedule, raise the temperature of the geyser, and to then consider replacing the shower head with a flow control shower head. You should seriously consider insulating the geyser pipes, and the blanket, depending on what type of geyser you have and where it is installed.

If you go the solar heater route then you will be replacing the geyser anyway .........
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We've got a gas stove so our electric stove is never used. What would happen if I simply got the electrician to move the ripple relay to the stove? They'd turn off my stove every evening, but would they be able to detect that it is not on the geyser?

Even better, I have an electric doorbell that hasn't been used for years. Maybe I should connect it to that.
 
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P924 said:
Well if there is no power a bigger element will heat the water at exacly the same rate as no element...
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But when power do come back will be only a few minutes then hot water back
 
Mike Hoxblack said:
Our municipality installed devices with which they can remotely switch off our geysers not too long ago. The promise was that it would switch off the geyser between 6-8PM. Now I notice that they're switching it off at 5PM already, which throws everything out for us. We used to get along fine with it. Two of us get off work at about 5, so we would shower once we got home and the geyser would have time to heat up again in time for the other two to shower when they got home later. Now this no longer works and the last person to shower either has to have a cold shower or wait for the geyser to come on at 8PM and then shower at about 9PM, when it is warm again.

Does the municipality reserve the right just turn off the geyser an hour earlier than they promised? Allegedly tampering with the device is illegal, but at this rate I'm just going to disconnect it from the main box. My only other option is to get a second geyser or a gas geyser, neither of which are currently viable and not to mention, I should not have to spend a dime because I should not go without hot water for 3 hours.
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get a solar geyser - fork eskum and the municipality!! they can load shed or switch off whatever the fork they like - I still have hot water all day long!

even in winter with water at 40 - 45 degrees - which for me, is still comfortable to shower in - I still don't use eskum power. my geyserwise gadget is just an expensive temperature sensor! :)
 
spiff said:
get a solar geyser - fork eskum and the municipality!! they can load shed or switch off whatever the fork they like - I still have hot water all day long!

even in winter with water at 40 - 45 degrees - which for me, is still comfortable to shower in - I still don't use eskum power. my geyserwise gadget is just an expensive temperature sensor! :)
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I'd be concerned about legionnaires with temperature fluctuations like that. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094925/
 
spiff said:
get a solar geyser - fork eskum and the municipality!! they can load shed or switch off whatever the fork they like - I still have hot water all day long!

even in winter with water at 40 - 45 degrees - which for me, is still comfortable to shower in - I still don't use eskum power. my geyserwise gadget is just an expensive temperature sensor! :)
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Mine is always above 65 when I get home (without e-scum)... But then again, you don't get many off-the shelf systems with a q-factor of 40.
 
P924 said:
Mine is always above 65 when I get home (without e-scum)... But then again, you don't get many off-the shelf systems with a q-factor of 40.
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dunno what q-factor mine is, but winter will go over 60 and summer over 90 :D No electricity goes to my geyser at all.

thehuman said:
Once a week boost temperature to 75 degrees legionnaires will be killed
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Over 50 does it afaik
 
Sinbad said:
dunno what q-factor mine is, but winter will go over 60 and summer over 90 :D No electricity goes to my geyser at all.

Over 50 does it afaik
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Over 50 stops more breeding, it doesn't kill what is already there.
Over 60 kills, but it has to be the whole tank at 60, apparently when your thermostat says 60 there are parts of the tank that are less.
 
Sinbad said:
Over 50 does it afaik
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Above 70 °C: Legionella dies almost instantly
At 60 °C: 90% die in 2 minutes
At 50 °C: 90% die in 80–124 minutes, depending on strain
At 48 to 50 °C: Can survive but do not multiply
32 to 42 °C: Ideal growth range

The general advice is to stick to 55 as a minimum. I personally think 60 is the best.
 
Gnome said:
The general advice is to stick to 55 as a minimum. I personally think 60 is the best.
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Not sure that's necessarily true; as long as you're blasting it occassionally to 60-70degrees for a few hours, you should be fine. Otherwise every solar geyser in the land would be in trouble.
This is also, by the way, why every solar geyser HAS an electrical element in it. And, you might be surprised, but it probably switches on every night/morning without you realsing.
One solar company we were talking to said that basically it runs every morning from 2:00-4:00AM, so that people don't have cold showers. Given that lots of people's geysers only turns on for a few hours a day, it did make me start to realise why so many people who buy Solar Geysers end up being dissapointed by them!
 
richjdavies said:
Not sure that's necessarily true; as long as you're blasting it occassionally to 60-70degrees for a few hours, you should be fine. Otherwise every solar geyser in the land would be in trouble.
This is also, by the way, why every solar geyser HAS an electrical element in it. And, you might be surprised, but it probably switches on every night/morning without you realsing.
One solar company we were talking to said that basically it runs every morning from 2:00-4:00AM, so that people don't have cold showers. Given that lots of people's geysers only turns on for a few hours a day, it did make me start to realise why so many people who buy Solar Geysers end up being dissapointed by them!
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Thats probably the no1 reason people are disappointed with solar. Hybrid does seem best... especially when you can go for a week without sunlight in the cape sometimes.
 
richjdavies said:
Not sure that's necessarily true; as long as you're blasting it occassionally to 60-70degrees for a few hours, you should be fine
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I think we missed each other there. I didn't mean you should never let your temperature below 55, more that you should aim to have it that way for at least an hour a day which is sufficient to kill whatever needs to be killed.
 
richjdavies said:
This is also, by the way, why every solar geyser HAS an electrical element in it. And, you might be surprised, but it probably switches on every night/morning without you realsing.
One solar company we were talking to said that basically it runs every morning from 2:00-4:00AM, so that people don't have cold showers. Given that lots of people's geysers only turns on for a few hours a day, it did make me start to realise why so many people who buy Solar Geysers end up being dissapointed by them!
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My solar has a controller that has an anti-legionnaires function that you could set to blast it at 70C once a week. That said, I designed my system so that it does not use the element unless the weather is bad for extended periods.

The main reason most people are disappointed in solar is that most systems on the market barely harvest enough energy to overcome the losses in the geyser alone.
 
How on earth do you get your solar geyser, without Eishkom, to be above 60 degrees in winter?

Mine runs to the mid 50's, which is apparently normal.

PS. I only have proper sun on it until about 14:45, then no direct sunlight.
 
nokeyman said:
How on earth do you get your solar geyser, without Eishkom, to be above 60 degrees in winter?

Mine runs to the mid 50's, which is apparently normal.

PS. I only have proper sun on it until about 14:45, then no direct sunlight.
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Unfortunately, This is the point P924, is making ---

(1) systems are not sized according to the need for hot water
(2) systems are simply "sold" as solar heaters without an evaluation of how they are going to be installed.
(3) very little effort is taken to ensure optimal orientation of the panels to give the "best" compromise between winter and summer
(4) the storage tanks are not "matched" to the panels
(5) etc.

Outcome :

The consumer is disappointed as the general expectation is no energy consumption required, water will be piping hot all the time etc.
I have a photograph of a low income housing project in Bloemfontein, where ALL the solar panels were installed facing South West! What do you think that meant for the persons living in those homes? The argument was " this is the only way we could install the solar systems based on the orientation of the roof"

IF I were to install solar on my home, I would have to have two panel locations, one for Summer and the other for Winter to ensure a continuous supply of hot water, UNLESS of course I was to compromise on aesthetics and install the system for optimal energy collection!
 
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Mine sadly faces east.
However, it's evacuated tube so it's a lot more efficient than a flat panel.
 
The above is why I would rather go heat pump, solar geyers are just too finicky with far too many caveats and way overpriced right now, at least with a heat pump I know what I'm getting for sure and I know that it actually does cost (roughly) what I'm paying to make.

You say every solar geyser in the country would be infected, they probably mostly are to some extent, the people selling this stuff just don't know or care as long as they are raking in the money, the amount of people who even seem to register that there is a risk with this stuff seem to be very few, even Eskom spent about 5 years telling people to turn geysers off before they finally started putting up warnings about this.
Could the right solar geyser be a better choice, probably, but there is simply nobody I can actually trust that will do it right.

That my wife is a transplant patient, so immuno-suppressed and therefore at much higher risk of actually being affected by such stuff, of course makes this a much simpler decision for me than the average person.
 
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mmacleod said:
The above is why I would rather go heat pump, solar geyers are just too finicky with far too many caveats and way overpriced right now, at least with a heat pump I know what I'm getting for sure and I know that it actually does cost (roughly) what I'm paying to make.

You say every solar geyser in the country would be infected, they probably mostly are to some extent, the people selling this stuff just don't know or care as long as they are raking in the money, the amount of people who even seem to register that there is a risk with this stuff seem to be very few, even Eskom spent about 5 years telling people to turn geysers off before they finally started putting up warnings about this.
Could the right solar geyser be a better choice, probably, but there is simply nobody I can actually trust that will do it right.

That my wife is a transplant patient, so immuno-suppressed and therefore at much higher risk of actually being affected by such stuff, of course makes this a much simpler decision for me than the average person.
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Max temp of current heatpump is about 55 degrees
Our solar also heats water to 70 degrees once a week if it did not reach a certain temperature
The cheaper systems with no pums/system controller another story maybe
 
thanks for the info guys....but?


The optimal temperature for Legionella proliferation in water varies between 32°C and 35°C, but it can easily proliferate at temperatures of up to 45°C. Usually, there is no growth above 55°C, and a temperature of over 60°C has a bactericidal effect. Thus, the WHO recommends that water be heated and stored at 60°C (3). However, studies in Quebec have shown, even when the thermostat is set at 60°C, a high percentage (approximately 40%) of electric water heaters remain contaminated because of the lower temperature, about 30°C to 40°C at the bottom of the tank. The probability of contamination will increase considerably if the temperature setting is lowered to 49°C. The risk of contamination is much lower for water heaters operating with fossil fuels, and is practically nonexistent for these heaters set at 60°C.
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so even if you have a temp of 60 degrees you still run a 40% risk of legionella contamination.
 
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