Geyser device

[Mike Hoxblack]

Wow 100L is way undersized for four adults...

Normally I would agree with you, but it's worked fine for us for the 5 years we've been living here. I don't see any reason to upgrade just because they have now decided to change the ripple schedule.

 

[LCBXX]

Spend R100 and insulate your geyser properly

You geyser is as insulated as it can be - half of it's total size is insulation around the tank. Spend your R100 on something nice for your SO.

 

[savage]

So I re-did my power installation myself, from scratch. Then had a battle to find someone to give me a privately arranged "inspection certificate" indicating who had done the work. Then back came the "official" inspector, who then wanted to know who had done the work as he had "never seen an electrician do such an excellent job ever". So don't talk to me about all this BS.

Completely, and utterly, illegal, not even to mention fraudulent. Whom ever gave you that certificate, should have his license revoked, not that it would solve anything in terms of what is wrong with this industry though....

While savage may be correct, legally, I have seen some atrocious work done by some - not all - electricians. They get paid by spending their time, so generally, doing only what is necessary makes financially sense.

When you work on your own house, you can spend time and do things neatly as well.

Yep. When buying a house (as it is the sellers responsibility), you don't really have a choice in the matter as to who they use. When you own the property, you are ultimately responsible though, and therefore, can get the electrician of your liking.

You get mechanics, and then you get mechanics. You get ISPs, and then you get ISPs. You get electricians, and then you get electricians....

A sparkie asking you R300 for a COC and quickly spends an hour or two at your property, is not worth the paper he's certificate is written on.

The sad fact of the matter, is that these sparkies does not get REPORTED to the ECB, and therefore, they happily continue to do their shady work. Hell, if you know who to call, you can get a COC in exchange for a bottle of brandy. Until the PUBLIC takes responsibility, and REPORT these idiots to the ECB, nothing will ever change I suppose.

 

[skeptic_SA]

You geyser is as insulated as it can be - half of it's total size is insulation around the tank. Spend your R100 on something nice for your SO.

+1

I was in the ceiling and basically riding my geyser like a pommel horse. There was no heat radiating from it. It's set at 60. Was wondering what an insulation blanket is supposed to be insulating if i can't feel heat loss. Marketing gimmick maybe? The pipes i understand. But the geyser itself?

 

[LCBXX]

+1

I was in the ceiling and basically riding my geyser like a pommel horse. There was no heat radiating from it. It's set at 60. Was wondering what an insulation blanket is supposed to be insulating if i can't feel heat loss. Marketing gimmick maybe? The pipes i understand. But the geyser itself?

Gimmic. My brother in law who's a plumber bought a holiday home thanks to the demand for blankies.

 

[Geoff.D]

Normally I would agree with you, but it's worked fine for us for the 5 years we've been living here. I don't see any reason to upgrade just because they have now decided to change the ripple schedule.

That may be the case, but there is no way that the authorities are going to change the schedule , so you will have to adapt your own schedules or consider other means.

Geyser blankets do work, but it depends on where and how the geyser has been installed, as well as the quality of the geyser.

 

[skeptic_SA]

Gimmic. My brother in law who's a plumber bought a holiday home thanks to the demand for blankies.

And some people say its a K@K business to be in?

 

[Geoff.D]

Completely, and utterly, illegal, not even to mention fraudulent. Whom ever gave you that certificate, should have his license revoked, not that it would solve anything in terms of what is wrong with this industry though....
Yep. When buying a house (as it is the sellers responsibility), you don't really have a choice in the matter as to who they use. When you own the property, you are ultimately responsible though, and therefore, can get the electrician of your liking.

You get mechanics, and then you get mechanics. You get ISPs, and then you get ISPs. You get electricians, and then you get electricians....

A sparkie asking you R300 for a COC and quickly spends an hour or two at your property, is not worth the paper he's certificate is written on.

The sad fact of the matter, is that these sparkies does not get REPORTED to the ECB, and therefore, they happily continue to do their shady work. Hell, if you know who to call, you can get a COC in exchange for a bottle of brandy. Until the PUBLIC takes responsibility, and REPORT these idiots to the ECB, nothing will ever change I suppose.

The original "electrician" was an "Insurance Company and bond holder approved service provider". The second one was another "Approved Service provider", the third one spent 3 hours verifying the work according to the Code and testing everything, and the "Inspector" used a hardware store earth leakage tester ----- So take your completely and utterly illegal story and smoke it !

You will have to report the entire home owners insurance industry, bond holder approved suppliers and all their hangers on ---.

 

[JohnHay]

Then had a battle to find someone to give me a privately arranged "inspection certificate" indicating who had done the work.

Your wording did sound a little fishy.

I think one should be able to do the work and then get a qualified person to check and COC it. There are hints to that in SANS 10142-1 for instance on page 352 "Authority for issuing a test report and a Certificate of Compliance" under Single-phase, it says:
May be installed by: electrical contractor or any person(a)

(a) Any person who undertakes to perform electrical installation work on behalf of any other person, but excluding an employee of
such first-mentioned person, is legally required to register as an electrical contractor.

So it seems there is at least some leeway...

 

[Geoff.D]

Your wording did sound a little fishy.

I think one should be able to do the work and then get a qualified person to check and COC it. There are hints to that in SANS 10142-1 for instance on page 352 "Authority for issuing a test report and a Certificate of Compliance" under Single-phase, it says:
May be installed by: electrical contractor or any person(a)

(a) Any person who undertakes to perform electrical installation work on behalf of any other person, but excluding an employee of
such first-mentioned person, is legally required to register as an electrical contractor.

So it seems there is at least some leeway...

Heheh! John,

Yes there is some lee -way, and that is how it was done, --- simple really, was "deemed" to be an employee (the gawie doing the work)of an electrical contractor, who then did the inspection -----

 

[JohnHay]

The way I understand that clause is that it is ok if you do it for yourself. If you do it for someone else, you need to be registered.

 

[savage]

When you take the Occupational Health and Safety act into consideration, things change substantially however...

Responsibility for electrical installations

4 (1) The user or the lessor of the electrical installation, as the case may be, shall be responsible for the safety, safe use and maintenance of the electrical installation he or she uses or leases and, except for work as permitted in regulation 11 (3), shall not tamper with or allow any tampering on any installation whether or not a certificate of compliance has been issued.

(2) The user or lessor of the electrical installation, as the case may be, shall be responsible for the safety of the conductors on his or her premises connecting the electrical installation to the point of supply in the case where the point of supply is not the point of control.

(3) Where there is no written undertaking by the lessee to ensure compliance and the safety of the electrical installation he or she the leases, the owner of the electrical installation shall be deemed to be the user of such electrical installation.

Point 1, being important here. Futhermore,

Design and construction
7 (1) No person shall authorize, design, install or permit or require the installation of an electrical installation, other than in accordance with a health and safety standard incorporated into these regulations under section 44 of the Act: Provided that the components within an electrical installation shall comply with the standards referred to in the incorporated standard and proof of compliance shall be identifiable on the components or certification shall be available from the supplier or manufacturer of the components: Provided further that items of an electrical installation not covered by such incorporated safety standard, and the conductors between the point of supply and the point of control, shall be installed in accordance with the by-laws or regulations of the supplier concerned.

(2) A registered person shall exercise general control over all electrical installation work being carried out, and no person shall allow such work without such control: Provided that where the voltage exceeds 1kV, the installation shall be designed and supervised by a person deemed competent in terms of paragraphs (b), (c) or (d) of the definition of a competent person in regulation 1 of the General machinery Regulations, 1998.

(3) No supplier shall restrict the application of a health and safety standard referred to in sub-regulation (1) when an electrical installation is installed, except where the distribution system of the supplier may be adversely affected by the application thereof.

And lastly,

Electrical contractor

8 (1)(a) Any person, including a juristic person, who intends to do installation work as an electrical contractor shall register annually with the chief inspector in the form prescribed in annexure 1.

SANS 10142, is a STANDARD - it is not a LAW

EDIT: Whilst I do agree, there is NO way to stop this from happening (not without drastic change to the entire industry), IF you get caught you are going to be in SERIOUS *****, especially if caught red handed.

 

[Gnome]

The original "electrician" was an "Insurance Company and bond holder approved service provider". The second one was another "Approved Service provider", the third one spent 3 hours verifying the work according to the Code and testing everything, and the "Inspector" used a hardware store earth leakage tester ----- So take your completely and utterly illegal story and smoke it !

You will have to report the entire home owners insurance industry, bond holder approved suppliers and all their hangers on ---.

Have to agree, I spent a long time redoing the wiring in my place, insulated everything with the right colour tape (wasn't done that way), made sure all the wires had continuity the way they should, etc.
Found a neutral fault on my lights (neutral -> earth continuity) and found earth wires not installed correctly, plugs that weren't on an EL, light switch being used as a geyser isolator, broken stove isolator with corroded contacts like you wouldn't believe, 3 phase stove breaker with massively corroded contacts. The list just goes on.

A piece of paper doesn't make you competent, hiding behind it like some kind of magic shield is sad IMO.

Doing things properly takes a hell of a long time. Especially joins, they are done slap dash by every electrician. If they had to spend the amount of time I do taping, etc. they would take 5x as long. But since I own it, I don't mind, also means less worry for me.

In the US and Britain, you can do the wiring yourself and have it certified. I personally think we should switch to that model also. That way electricians spend more time doing extensive validation and less time on monkey work. They should extensively do validation no matter what. But because they don't care and have the attitude of, oh well, the previous guy probably did the right thing, they don't really do much validation.

 

[DollyAAAA]

Yeah, "exercise general control" does not explicitly say "the electrical contractor/registered person and his/her employee/sub-contractor must do the physical work himself."

Sounds more like "my sparkie friend says I can do it, he'll come and check it tomorrow".

 

[Gnome]

Yeah, "exercise general control" does not explicitly say "the electrical contractor/registered person and his/her employee/sub-contractor must do the physical work himself."

Sounds more like "my sparkie friend says I can do it, he'll come and check it tomorrow".

Hahahaha

 

[savage]

Yeah, "exercise general control" does not explicitly say "the electrical contractor/registered person and his/her employee/sub-contractor must do the physical work himself."

Sounds more like "my sparkie friend says I can do it, he'll come and check it tomorrow".

Again, READ the act... The Definition of "General Control" is defined:

“general control” includes the instruction, guidance and supervision of registered person over electrical installation work that is being carried out;

The sparkie must TELL you what to do (i.e. instruct), must GUIDE you (i.e. help you plan whatever you want to do so that you don't blow **** up), and SUPERVISE you (i.e. ensure you do the work correctly), whilst you do the work, i.e., physically be there, and be in control of what you are doing.

 

[Mike Hoxblack]

Again, READ the act... The Definition of "General Control" is defined:


The sparkie must TELL you what to do (i.e. instruct), must GUIDE you (i.e. help you plan whatever you want to do so that you don't blow **** up), and SUPERVISE you (i.e. ensure you do the work correctly), whilst you do the work, i.e., physically be there, and be in control of what you are doing.

Big change from your earlier claim that an unregistered person just opening a DB is illegal.

 

[savage]

Big change from your earlier claim that an unregistered person just opening a DB is illegal.

Shrugs. If it was done under supervision (which is not the case), we wouldn't even be having this conversation to begin with. These conversations wouldn't even come up really. The fact is, it is happening WITHOUT supervision and that is the crux of the matter.

Anyways - time to go and do something constructive.

 

[DollyAAAA]

Again, READ the act... The Definition of "General Control" is defined:


The sparkie must TELL you what to do (i.e. instruct), must GUIDE you (i.e. help you plan whatever you want to do so that you don't blow **** up), and SUPERVISE you (i.e. ensure you do the work correctly), whilst you do the work, i.e., physically be there, and be in control of what you are doing.

Ok, ok, I get your point. I was a little facetious. Sorry.

The point I'm trying to make is that I am convinced that the limited little job I'm doing, I can do just as well as many registered electricians, because of my experience. I may not know the law by heart, but can find it and read up on it. And ask questions and get help from knowledgeable people like yourself.

 

[thehuman]

I think we need to make a DB/Electrical topic
The experts can give advice
And we can show our achievements