Geyser device

[mmacleod]

+1

I was in the ceiling and basically riding my geyser like a pommel horse. There was no heat radiating from it. It's set at 60. Was wondering what an insulation blanket is supposed to be insulating if i can't feel heat loss. Marketing gimmick maybe? The pipes i understand. But the geyser itself?

I suppose it depends on the type of geyser, the crappy kwikot ones seem to be reasonably warm on the outside if you touch them.

 

[MickZA]

And we can show our achievements

Right, I'll start

 

[thehuman]

Right, I'll start

View attachment 232960

Wonderful . I would love to drive over that cables with a hook and ripp them all out
Won't be alive after tho

 

[savage]

The point I'm trying to make is that I am convinced that the limited little job I'm doing, I can do just as well as many registered electricians, because of my experience. I may not know the law by heart, but can find it and read up on it. And ask questions and get help from knowledgeable people like yourself.

You are 100% correct, and trust me, I appreciate that as well. Many can do a BETTER job than a "qualified" person (and I'm not going to expand further on that on the basis that it may start sounding VERY racist) - I don't dispute that at all. But again, just because you are driving alone on a road (with a 60Kmh speed limit), it does not give you the right to exceed the speed limit, right?

The point I'm making, is that people make mistakes - we all do. 1) You can either die from making a mistake, or 2) (even for an extremely qualified person) can spend HOURS finding a fault after it has been introduced, be it intentionally, or accidental. Again, you get mechanics, and you get mechanics. You get electricians, and you get electricians.

If you do the work yourself, and you kill someone in the process, you WILL be going to jail (that's a fact).

The same applies to anything really. Take traffic laws. Yes, if you are alone on a road with a 60Kmh speed limit, nobody is stopping you from driving at 120Kmh. If you get caught, there are consequences. If you kill someone, there's even bigger consequences.

All I'm saying, is 1) it IS illegal what is going on here (and I'm referring to these threads in general), and 2) YOU need to be aware of it, and the risks. If you still want to break the law and you consider it to be not a big deal, the go for it - nobody can stop you (if you are really persistent), especially not I. IF something happens however, be prepared for the consequences. I'm hammering on this (due to the nature of questions asked), because it is very apparent that there are a LOT of people attempting to do work by themselves, not understanding what they do, why they do it, and why it is required. This, IMHO, is EXTREMELY dangerous.

Personally, coming back to the OP... If I was in his position, 1) I would never allow for the installation of a ripple device that I don't have control over, and 2) IF they (council / government) INSIST on installing it, I would have removed it within the first 10 minutes after they left my premises. A good quality timer device is even MORE efficient than a ripple relay, as you can heat your water precisely, when you need it...

Is it legal? More than likely not. Would they bother to check up on it? More than likely not.

 

[Nerfherder]

Our municipality installed devices with which they can remotely switch off our geysers not too long ago. The promise was that it would switch off the geyser between 6-8PM. Now I notice that they're switching it off at 5PM already, which throws everything out for us. We used to get along fine with it. Two of us get off work at about 5, so we would shower once we got home and the geyser would have time to heat up again in time for the other two to shower when they got home later. Now this no longer works and the last person to shower either has to have a cold shower or wait for the geyser to come on at 8PM and then shower at about 9PM, when it is warm again.

Does the municipality reserve the right just turn off the geyser an hour earlier than they promised? Allegedly tampering with the device is illegal, but at this rate I'm just going to disconnect it from the main box. My only other option is to get a second geyser or a gas geyser, neither of which are currently viable and not to mention, I should not have to spend a dime because I should not go without hot water for 3 hours.

Turn your temp up. Its too low.

This will mean that less warm water will be pulled from the geyser and less cold water will come in. So basically the temp inside the geyser wont drop as much.

If you are going to spend any money then your best option is a heat pump or insulation.

 

[P924]

I think we need to make a DB/Electrical topic
The experts can give advice
And we can show our achievements

We can call it the "DB board".

 

[DollyAAAA]

We can call it the "DB board".

I like it!

 

[Geoff.D]

Again, READ the act... The Definition of "General Control" is defined:
The sparkie must TELL you what to do (i.e. instruct), must GUIDE you (i.e. help you plan whatever you want to do so that you don't blow **** up), and SUPERVISE you (i.e. ensure you do the work correctly), whilst you do the work, i.e., physically be there, and be in control of what you are doing.

Now this IS where I have a problem with all of this. I have YEARS of experience in designing very complicated power systems. I know what to do, have ALL the latest SABS (SANS) documentation at hand above my desk as I type. Yet I must put up with an electrician (who came to "inspect") to issue the COC, who was NOT TOLD what to do, had absolutely NO GUIDANCE, and was NOT supervised!

And that IS the rub. I took endless trouble in checking everything, fixing up ALL the issues, making sure the Earth bars, neutral bars were installed properly and labelling. What I found made my hair stand on end that anyone had actually lived in the place before us.

So in the end, when I finally got a COC, I KNEW that it was backed up by a proper installation, not by a cursory look and a test, and yes it went through a thorough check (no doubt, the sparky was concerned about is own reputation, as well as trying to catch me out).

 

[Sinbad]

You are 100% correct, and trust me, I appreciate that as well. Many can do a BETTER job than a "qualified" person (and I'm not going to expand further on that on the basis that it may start sounding VERY racist) - I don't dispute that at all. But again, just because you are driving alone on a road (with a 60Kmh speed limit), it does not give you the right to exceed the speed limit, right?

The point I'm making, is that people make mistakes - we all do. 1) You can either die from making a mistake, or 2) (even for an extremely qualified person) can spend HOURS finding a fault after it has been introduced, be it intentionally, or accidental. Again, you get mechanics, and you get mechanics. You get electricians, and you get electricians.

If you do the work yourself, and you kill someone in the process, you WILL be going to jail (that's a fact).

The same applies to anything really. Take traffic laws. Yes, if you are alone on a road with a 60Kmh speed limit, nobody is stopping you from driving at 120Kmh. If you get caught, there are consequences. If you kill someone, there's even bigger consequences.

All I'm saying, is 1) it IS illegal what is going on here (and I'm referring to these threads in general), and 2) YOU need to be aware of it, and the risks. If you still want to break the law and you consider it to be not a big deal, the go for it - nobody can stop you (if you are really persistent), especially not I. IF something happens however, be prepared for the consequences. I'm hammering on this (due to the nature of questions asked), because it is very apparent that there are a LOT of people attempting to do work by themselves, not understanding what they do, why they do it, and why it is required. This, IMHO, is EXTREMELY dangerous.

Personally, coming back to the OP... If I was in his position, 1) I would never allow for the installation of a ripple device that I don't have control over, and 2) IF they (council / government) INSIST on installing it, I would have removed it within the first 10 minutes after they left my premises. A good quality timer device is even MORE efficient than a ripple relay, as you can heat your water precisely, when you need it...

Is it legal? More than likely not. Would they bother to check up on it? More than likely not.

Irony. Banging on about legality of work. Would illegally remove ripple device.

 

[Geoff.D]

This by the way happened all happened in 1990 ......

So to sum it all up, it IS important when giving advice on an open forum to ENSURE that all are aware of the legal ramifications. BTW a few trips into Africa, (Nigeria, Rwanda, DRC, etc) will also "change" ones perspective somewhat about the basics.

Just to rub it all in, we recently had a major fault AFTER a LS event in our area, which led to a 9-hour outage while the council "looked for" the reason. In the process a bunch of clowns showed up, removed 80A CBs feeding our homes ( so that they could be sure all the loads were isolated they said, then came back an put back the CBs, not the original you had but whatever they took off the back of their bakkie. Needless to say they were back the next day after my neighbour and I moaned, to "replace" the faulty breakers with others. ------

So while the LAW wants to nail the user, the LAW is doing nothing to protect all of us against the disgracefully shoddy work being done on the " Supply side".

 

[Geoff.D]

Back on topic:

Ripple relays are notoriously unreliable.
There are many variables you have to take into account and it is quite complicated to find out how and what to change to live with these things.

In 1990. we went for a bigger geyser (200L) (needed for 4 adults in my opinion) changed the temperature setting to 70 degree C, insulated the hot water and cold water pipes from and to the geyser as far as possible, got a geyser blanket, and employed an in line water heater on the hot water run furthest from the geyser. I have also used a timer for more than 30 years as well as an Energy Control Unit.

 

[Mike Hoxblack]

Well, we're not buying a 200L geyser when the 100L has served our needs perfectly for 5 years. That's brutally unfair towards us. I'll just have an electrician out to come do a general check or something and then have him disconnect the device, off the record. Supposedly it's a 5 minute job.

If Eskom ever shows up (which they likely won't), I'll simply plead ignorance and say it was never connected to begin with.

 

[Nerfherder]

Well, we're not buying a 200L geyser when the 100L has served our needs perfectly for 5 years. That's brutally unfair towards us. I'll just have an electrician out to come do a general check or something and then have him disconnect the device, off the record. Supposedly it's a 5 minute job.

If Eskom ever shows up (which they likely won't), I'll simply plead ignorance and say it was never connected to begin with.

Really... You are choosing the hardest option. You will get a fine. They are getting serious about the entire country being on realys. You will get a fine and might even get your power cut.

Choose the easy path, plenty of good advice here

 

[Sinbad]

Invest in solar. A good sized one. 250l minimum. It adds to your house value at the same time as it drops your energy bill

 

[thehuman]

Invest in solar. A good sized one. 250l minimum. It adds to your house value at the same time as it drops your energy bill

Solar geyser no need for ripple switch too . Don't go too small 250l to 300l

 

[JohnHay]

They are getting serious about the entire country being on realys.

Will they install one even if you have a solar geyser? I'll have to make sure they put it after the geyserwise then because I do not want it to cut power to the geyserwise.

And yes I agree that solar for the geyser is the way to go. Together with a little change in behaviour, we now almost never use electricity to heat the geyser. That is mostly when we have consecutive very cloudy days or many visitors.

 

[Nerfherder]

Will they install one even if you have a solar geyser? I'll have to make sure they put it after the geyserwise then because I do not want it to cut power to the geyserwise.

And yes I agree that solar for the geyser is the way to go. Together with a little change in behaviour, we now almost never use electricity to heat the geyser. That is mostly when we have consecutive very cloudy days or many visitors.

No, I think it's only for standard electric geysers.

 

[Geoff.D]

Well, we're not buying a 200L geyser when the 100L has served our needs perfectly for 5 years. That's brutally unfair towards us. I'll just have an electrician out to come do a general check or something and then have him disconnect the device, off the record. Supposedly it's a 5 minute job.

If Eskom ever shows up (which they likely won't), I'll simply plead ignorance and say it was never connected to begin with.

The disconnect option is not a good solution as it is possible now to remotely detect if an installed ripple relay has been disconnected.
Your only options left are to change your usage pattern to accommodate the Eskom/municipal schedule, raise the temperature of the geyser, and to then consider replacing the shower head with a flow control shower head. You should seriously consider insulating the geyser pipes, and the blanket, depending on what type of geyser you have and where it is installed.

If you go the solar heater route then you will be replacing the geyser anyway .........

 

[thehuman]

Wattage of geyser element
Bigger element will warm water faster

 

[Geoff.D]

Wattage of geyser element
Bigger element will warm water faster

Depending on the make and model of the geyser, yes it may be possible to increase the wattage of the element. Contact the manufacturer to determine what the options are .....