Google Nexus 5

StrontiumDog said:
R5379 isn't the cost price (for the network provider). So the extra R44 in value they give you could easily be attributed to that. Plus they probably still make a profit on the phone itself. Just one possible explanation I would imagine. I don't have the inside track on these things so I speak under correction :).
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That could well be so. I just took the prices from their site and did some math. Hey, maybe I seriously missed something here, but at face value it seems to me they take more than they should
 
OGroteKoning said:
Simple example:

Samsung Galaxy S4 mini LTE
On Smart L - R579 pm X 24months
On Prepaid the phone is R5379. That gives you R224.13 you would pay should you purchase the phone over 24 months
Deduct that from the contract price of R579 and we get R354.87. So you should pay R354.87 pm for the Smart L contract if you do not take a phone. Right??
Wrong!
On uChoose Smart SIM only you pay R399 per month for a contract without a phone
Where does the other R44.13 go to?
Click to expand...

Once again, you are wrong. I used to work for them, fine let me give you actual Evidence. The Smart S (i took this cos its the easiest. Give me another example if you want).

Contract Pricing is R199pm (This is for the package.)
If you take a S4 mini on the Smart is it is R309 pm
s4 mini.jpg

If you take a NO PHONE deal, you pay R129pm. So surely, unless my maths is out, R129 is less than R309pm and R199?....

No phone.jpgNo phone.jpg

Lets use your example and show you were you are going wrong. 1. You are comparing the uChoose Smart package (haven't said which one) to the Smart L. 2 completely different packages. Lets use the Smart L. The base subscription is R499pm. As per your link for the S4 mini, the package is R579 pm right? R499 < R579.

Lets try unravel your maths here quickly. 579 - 499 = 80, this is what you pay monthly over 24months for the handset. This equates to R1920. So you ask me now, where is the missing 3459, its covered in the base subscription you are correct in your initial logic. But as i stated: "What are you paying subsidy for a phone on? You have your OWN PAID phone..."

Smart L gets reduced from R579 and R499 to R349 pm with no phone.

Smart l.PNG

So yes, i see your example. I throw at you evidence from the contract activation pages. Where am i going wrong?
 
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Thanks for the reply Lostears - I like getting another view to compare with what the dude at Vodacom4U in Vodaworld told me when I renewed a contract earlier this year. First off, I have no idea where you get the snippets from. If those are correct, then you might have a point, but I can't find it on the website and all I have to go on, is the info on the site.

Lostears said:
Once again, you are wrong. I used to work for them, fine let me give you actual Evidence. The Smart S (i took this cos its the easiest. Give me another example if you want).

Contract Pricing is R199pm (This is for the package.)
If you take a S4 mini on the Smart is it is R309 pm
View attachment 104980

If you take a NO PHONE deal, you pay R129pm. So surely, unless my maths is out, R129 is less than R309pm and R199?....

View attachment 104982View attachment 104982
Click to expand...

Again, I did not argue that you do not pay less, I said that you still subsidize something (what? I don't know). I don't know where you get the R309 from - on the website it is R329
In that specific example, the deal is R329 pm with a R4999 phone. R4999/24=R208.29. R329-R208.29=120.71. R120.71<R129.00 and I don't know where your R129 comes from. Admittedly, it is only R9, but in principle you pay more than you should i.e. subsidizing something.

Lostears said:
Lets use your example and show you were you are going wrong. 1. You are comparing the uChoose Smart package (haven't said which one) to the Smart L. 2 completely different packages. Lets use the Smart L. The base subscription is R499pm. As per your link for the S4 mini, the package is R579 pm right? R499 < R579.
Click to expand...

It was the uChoose Smart L package - I missed the L there, but it is easy enough to see which I used with the figures I quoted. The only frame of reference me as a consumer have from the website is a uChoose package. If I missed the boat completely there, then I stand corrected provided the alternative for a no phone option is actually R354.87 or less. But in all honesty, it is a silly argument because I can say that R354.87 is lower than R579 or R499. Let's not go there. Let's just accept that either the info you have is not on the website, or that I missed the part where it is actually shown.

Lostears said:
Lets try unravel your maths here quickly. 579 - 499 = 80, this is what you pay monthly over 24months for the handset. This equates to R1920. So you ask me now, where is the missing 3459, its covered in the base subscription you are correct in your initial logic. But as i stated: "What are you paying subsidy for a phone on? You have your OWN PAID phone..."

Smart L gets reduced from R579 and R499 to R349 pm with no phone.

View attachment 104984

So yes, i see your example. I throw at you evidence from the contract activation pages. Where am i going wrong?
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you are certainly not unraveling my maths. You state a completely different set of maths here. The set I produced is very clear and easy to follow and there is no unraveling required. In your example, however, I would rather use the uChoose Smart L value of R399. Because in the R499 contract, you can still get a phone albeit the cheapest POS phone you can find. Between the uChoose Smart L and the Smart L for R499, there is a R2400 subsidy for the POS phone over the contract period.

All the above aside - I would much rather discuss the R349 pm you mentioned. Where do you see this on the website? Where do you get these figures from? My contract is up for renewal shortly and I am currently on a Smart L (with subsidized phone). I doubt I will take a phone on my upgrade and if the R349 pm is true, then admittedly, my initial calcs were in fact wrong (as was the ejit at Vodacom4U) and I would renew my contract for that value.
 
OGroteKoning said:
Thanks for the reply Lostears - I like getting another view to compare with what the dude at Vodacom4U in Vodaworld told me when I renewed a contract earlier this year. First off, I have no idea where you get the snippets from. If those are correct, then you might have a point, but I can't find it on the website and all I have to go on, is the info on the site.



Again, I did not argue that you do not pay less, I said that you still subsidize something (what? I don't know). I don't know where you get the R309 from - on the website it is R329
In that specific example, the deal is R329 pm with a R4999 phone. R4999/24=R208.29. R329-R208.29=120.71. R120.71<R129.00 and I don't know where your R129 comes from. Admittedly, it is only R9, but in principle you pay more than you should i.e. subsidizing something.



It was the uChoose Smart L package - I missed the L there, but it is easy enough to see which I used with the figures I quoted. The only frame of reference me as a consumer have from the website is a uChoose package. If I missed the boat completely there, then I stand corrected provided the alternative for a no phone option is actually R354.87 or less. But in all honesty, it is a silly argument because I can say that R354.87 is lower than R579 or R499. Let's not go there. Let's just accept that either the info you have is not on the website, or that I missed the part where it is actually shown.



Sorry, but you are certainly not unraveling my maths. You state a completely different set of maths here. The set I produced is very clear and easy to follow and there is no unraveling required. In your example, however, I would rather use the uChoose Smart L value of R399. Because in the R499 contract, you can still get a phone albeit the cheapest POS phone you can find. Between the uChoose Smart L and the Smart L for R499, there is a R2400 subsidy for the POS phone over the contract period.

All the above aside - I would much rather discuss the R349 pm you mentioned. Where do you see this on the website? Where do you get these figures from? My contract is up for renewal shortly and I am currently on a Smart L (with subsidized phone). I doubt I will take a phone on my upgrade and if the R349 pm is true, then admittedly, my initial calcs were in fact wrong (as was the ejit at Vodacom4U) and I would renew my contract for that value.
Click to expand...


The values i have used are taken directly from the vodacom contracts page. You do not have access unfortunately as it is solely for the use of vodacom employees. I, for some reason, still have complete access even though i stopped working in December last year :P. The site i use is http://m2.vodacomsp.co.za.

As I said, the Smart L with no phone is R349pm, the extra R150pm is to cover any handset you choose. If the handset value goe's above this (150 *24), then you get an additional device charge. I can look up the uChoose Smart L deals if you want? There is actually no cost difference between the 2, to be honest with you. The only difference between the uChoose and the normal, is the control you have. There is no extra bills at the end of the month, but you do pay extra for this lock.

None of the No phone deals are listed on the website as far as i know, in order to get this sort of information you would need to go in and ask them to do a "NO PHONE upgrade.". You choose a package, they should then enter the word "No" by handset. This will bring up all the deals for an upgrade to no phone. Just bear in mind, you do not get a phone for the next 22 months. So ensure your phone can last you another 2 years :)

Also, the whole R9 extra, you are still under the assumption that the network gives you the phone at retail price. Remember the retail cost is far far higher than actual cost price. When you take a phone on contract, you pay costing for with a bit of interest, hence R9pm :p.
 
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@OGroteKoning, Lostears is probably getting his pricing from the dealer web portal that is not available to the public. It looks like what I saw last time I renewed my contract and asked the consultant to give me pricing for different scenarios. edit: he beat me to it I see :p

I think where you are going wrong here is you are trying to make sense of contract prices that a bunch of actuaries & psychologists have worked out to be the most profitable and/or designed to steer the consumer in a certain direction as to what package they end up going for.

As an example, when Vodacom still had the old TopUp contracts, they were quite expensive compared to Talk packages. If you go purely by the numbers then it doesn't make sense financially to go for TopUp. But what they know is that if they get you to go for a pure talk time package, you will end up wasting a lot of minutes so they score. Conversely on TopUp you are more likely to use it to it's full value as it's so flexible. </edit> Nevermind the fact that the "cost" attached to airtime is somewhat intangible!

</off topic>
 
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Also, I just noted that i posted the Wrong pricing for the S4 Mini :(. Thats the pricing for the Trade in hence the "Trade in R1499" value there or whatever it says. Not actually sure what the full pricing for the S4 mini is, but its a lot more than just R309 pm.

Yes StrontiumDog, that is the Dealer Web page, now replaced with Morpheus. But essentially the same. Its the Dealer platform not for public. The only benefit i had for working for that stupid and completely useless company :).
 
Lostears said:
The values i have used are taken directly from the vodacom contracts page. You do not have access unfortunately as it is solely for the use of vodacom employees. I, for some reason, still have complete access even though i stopped working in December last year :P. The site i use is http://m2.vodacomsp.co.za.

As I said, the Smart L with no phone is R349pm, the extra R150pm is to cover any handset you choose. If the handset value goe's above this (150 *24), then you get an additional device charge. I can look up the uChoose Smart L deals if you want? There is actually no cost difference between the 2, to be honest with you. The only difference between the uChoose and the normal, is the control you have. There is no extra bills at the end of the month, but you do pay extra for this lock.

None of the No phone deals are listed on the website as far as i know, in order to get this sort of information you would need to go in and ask them to do a "NO PHONE upgrade.". You choose a package, they should then enter the word "No" by handset. This will bring up all the deals for an upgrade to no phone. Just bear in mind, you do not get a phone for the next 22 months. So ensure your phone can last you another 2 years :)

Also, the whole R9 extra, you are still under the assumption that the network gives you the phone at retail price. Remember the retail cost is far far higher than actual cost price. When you take a phone on contract, you pay costing for with a bit of interest, hence R9pm :p.
Click to expand...

Now all I need is your Dealer ID, User ID and your password :p

Thanks for the offer, but I will stick to the regular Smart L with no phone. I'm sure the Nexus 5 will last.

/resist the urge to get a S5...

I just hope that the contract cost will be R349 when I renew else... "What I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you." :D

I completely accept the retail/cost argument. But us consumers are not privy to cost, hence my calcs based on retail figures from the site

EDIT: Can you get handsets cheaper than us regular consumers?
 
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lol, I have heard of this "Morpheus" in passing but I can't recall details.

Lostears, ultimately would you say the consumer is better off going for a contract and subsidised phone? I would say when one does the math it seems to pay off provided the consumer doesn't end up going out of bundle or choosing a contract that includes way too much airtime or rand value. </off topic>
 
That's kind of what the rep offered me, I wasn't interested in any of the *fluff* with the Smart M contract and then he said they could drop the contract rate and said hells yeah. So my monthly price went from R299 to R240 (I think), much happier with that. If I remember correctly, the rep said the pricier the contract the bigger the discount. I agree though that the monthly charge is still slightly higher than it should be even after discount.
 
OGroteKoning said:
Now all I need is your Dealer ID, User ID and your password :p

Thanks for the offer, but I will stick to the regular Smart L with no phone. I'm sure the Nexus 5 will last.

/resist the urge to get a S5...

I just hope that the contract cost will be R349 when I renew else... "What I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you." :D

I completely accept the retail/cost argument. But us consumers are not privy to cost, hence my calcs based on retail figures from the site

EDIT: Can you get handsets cheaper than us regular consumers?
Click to expand...

Haha fair enough. Also these base pricing models. R129/R349 etc. Those won't change unless the contract fades out. You can do the same for any package at all. If you wanted a topup 315 you could get that on reduced package as well. Look, for a Nexus 5. My honest honest opinion would be to go for a bundled 2gig data contract at R89 pm, bolt on R200 airtime, and then add R9pm for clip. = R298 pm for 2gigs data, roughly 120minutes of calling. Data is the most important thing. If 2gigs is too much, look at a 1gig for R69 then R200 or R250 airtime etc. Your call, if the Smart L works for you, then it works for you.
 
StrontiumDog said:
lol, I have heard of this "Morpheus" in passing but I can't recall details.

Lostears, ultimately would you say the consumer is better off going for a contract and subsidised phone? I would say when one does the math it seems to pay off provided the consumer doesn't end up going out of bundle or choosing a contract that includes way too much airtime or rand value. </off topic>
Click to expand...

Uhmmmm. Honest Opinion Yes. At this point in time, im paying R399 pm for Smart S with a Note 3. Note 3 is R200 pm * 24 = R4800. The phone brand new is around R9 000 - R11 000, plus im getting minutes and data. The only thing is, you get tied down for 24months at a time. But ultimately it works out in your interest to get a contract with a subsized phoned PURELY because you will pay cost price, be able to pay it off monthly AND get minutes and data. This is only worthwhile if you stay within your bundles.
 
JimboBob said:
That's kind of what the rep offered me, I wasn't interested in any of the *fluff* with the Smart M contract and then he said they could drop the contract rate and said hells yeah. So my monthly price went from R299 to R240 (I think), much happier with that. If I remember correctly, the rep said the pricier the contract the bigger the discount. I agree though that the monthly charge is still slightly higher than it should be even after discount.
Click to expand...

You see, this is what grinds my gears. They can put this kind of info onto the website. In order to get the info I learned today, I have to either argue on here or wait in a queue (and still get bad advice).
 
Lostears said:
Haha fair enough. Also these base pricing models. R129/R349 etc. Those won't change unless the contract fades out. You can do the same for any package at all. If you wanted a topup 315 you could get that on reduced package as well. Look, for a Nexus 5. My honest honest opinion would be to go for a bundled 2gig data contract at R89 pm, bolt on R200 airtime, and then add R9pm for clip. = R298 pm for 2gigs data, roughly 120minutes of calling. Data is the most important thing. If 2gigs is too much, look at a 1gig for R69 then R200 or R250 airtime etc. Your call, if the Smart L works for you, then it works for you.
Click to expand...

This is what I need:
At least 250mins talk time (I use my phone for business)
About 500mb data (rest on WiFi)
30 sms (for mom)
 
OGroteKoning said:
This is what I need:
At least 250mins talk time (I use my phone for business)
About 500mb data (rest on WiFi)
30 sms (for mom)
Click to expand...

Bleh, since i have nothing better to do before going to bed. Let me see what i can do on the vodacom portal.

Smart L - No Phone Upgrade

Inclusive minutes 250 Anytime
Promotional data 500MB
Inclusive SMS 500

NO PHONE @ R349 Reduced Sub PM on Smart L Smart L N R 349.00


Smart XL - No Phone Upgrade

Inclusive minutes 400 Anytime
Promotional data 800MB
Inclusive SMS 800

NO PHONE @ R509 Reduced Sub PM on Smart XL Smart XL N R 509.00


Uchoose Flexi 500

NO PHONE @ R339 Reduced Sub PM on Flexi 500 uChoose Flexi 500 N R 339.00

Uchoose Smart L

NO PHONE @ R399 Reduced Sub PM on uChoose Smart L uChoose Smart L N R 399.00


Those seem to be the best bets for you. The Flexi 500, gives you R500 airtime for R339 pm. Personally i wouldn't bother with the uChoose Smart packages. If you can manage your airtime and data, no need to spend an extra R50 pm for it.
 
Lostears said:
Bleh, since i have nothing better to do before going to bed. Let me see what i can do on the vodacom portal.

Smart L - No Phone Upgrade

Inclusive minutes 250 Anytime
Promotional data 500MB
Inclusive SMS 500

NO PHONE @ R349 Reduced Sub PM on Smart LSmart LNR 349.00


Smart XL - No Phone Upgrade

Inclusive minutes 400 Anytime
Promotional data 800MB
Inclusive SMS 800

NO PHONE @ R509 Reduced Sub PM on Smart XLSmart XLNR 509.00


Uchoose Flexi 500

NO PHONE @ R339 Reduced Sub PM on Flexi 500uChoose Flexi 500NR 339.00

Uchoose Smart L

NO PHONE @ R399 Reduced Sub PM on uChoose Smart LuChoose Smart LNR 399.00


Those seem to be the best bets for you. The Flexi 500, gives you R500 airtime for R339 pm. Personally i wouldn't bother with the uChoose Smart packages. If you can manage your airtime and data, no need to spend an extra R50 pm for it.
Click to expand...

Much appreciated!
Sleep well ;)
 
Well at least our MyBB subscribers will go to Vodacom with a little bit more info instead of having to prod them for support or whats the best advice they can offer :).
 
Chris said:
So I have been informed that I can upgrade. Has anyone compared the LG G2 to the Nexus 5 personally?

I know their reviews which do that, but I'm interested in personal experience...
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The Nexus 5 is the budget version of the LG G2.

Some features of the G2 were chopped, as Google wanted to reach a certain price point.

G2 is a fab phone, check the official thread.
 
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