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Question of the Day: How do you normally pay for purchases in stores?
Govt proposes salary caps
- Thread starter MickeyD
- Start date
Mila
Honorary Master
Well said.
BBSA
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What about the bribe money?
MickeyD
RIP
Yep
But what they are proposing is that while you are earning under R20k/m you will receive an annual increase of: inflation rate PLUS another x percentage.
This will be until you hit the R20k/m ceiling.
From then you will only receive an annual increase equivalent to the inflation rate UNTIL the [-]day[/-] year you finally hit the maximum cap amount of R550/annum.
bullzeye.za
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For someone with such a cool signature, you are incredibly short sighted.
Do you really think that the people earning 1-2 million per year ( the ones who run the businesses that make the jobs ) will settle for this?
They'll leave the country in a second, and things will collapse - And we will lose the jobs.
I'm sure your stance will be "Oh great! More jobs to fill with people that have none".. But in the end, we're filling high level positions with people who are undereducated and qualified to fulfill them, and.. Well, things will go the way that everyone thinks they will, except faster.
Then again, this will never go through. It'll be taken off the table as soon as the elections are over.
requiem
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It has nothing to do about caring about the wellbeing of others.
Being told that you only have the potential to earn x amount - no matter how hard you work, will make anyone stop working harder.
Without reward - why bother working your ass off -
The biggest problem here is that people expect to be given whatever they want without working for it.
We damand a job, a salary, a car, a house, but we aren't prepared to work for it.....
It's the reason communism doesn't work.
Arzy
Honorary Master
I take exception to your statement that the posters here do not care for the well being of others.
Ambition, aspiration and purpose are not character flaws and if someone has taken the time to build their career they deserve to rewarded. Call me selfish if you will, I will wear it as a badge of honour.
I spent 7 years studying to complete my 3 qualifications and I am now busy with 4th. My wife has spent 9 years studying and doing articles/pupilage. We are both qualified professionals who have made a lot of sacrifices to get where we are and will continue to make them. During this process both of us have however been supporting our local communities and churches, at times even when it was to our own detriment. We would not have been able to do this if we hadn't been "selfish" and worked our asses off in the first place.
Nothing makes us special however and anybody else could have followed exactly the same path. All it took was commitment, my wife didn't have to pay a single cent for her studies because she put the time and effort in to qualify for a bursary.
Should this "proposal" come into place however I can guarantee you that we will depart from this country to somewhere that our contribution to society is rewarded.
You do not fix a situation where the "majority of human beings in South Africa (and the world) are suffering under the current system." by dragging everyone else down to the same level. This only results in everyone having an equal portion of misery.
What South-Africa needs is rather simple:
1. Replace the current set of ministers who think it is even worth while to publish drivel like this for comment, unfortunately if that is the bulk of the cabinet, then so be it.
2. Take all the minister who were just replaced and arrest them, 90% would have been involved in tender fraud anyway.
3. Actually do something to stamp our corruption and the wasteful spending by government, how many jobs couldn't have been created with the money that was spent on the Arms Deal?
4. Break this stupid alliance between the ANC and COSATU, it isn't helping anyone.
5. Have COSATU form a Labour party in opposition to the ANC, a party that would actually look after the labour class.
6. Hold an election, I am almost sure you would find that suddenly you don't have a single party majority, more likely a 40% Cosatu, 35% ANC and 25% Independent split.
7. Now govern, because quite frankly people actually do have choice and they will choose the party who actually does do something and your independents swing it.
Jabberwocky
Expert Member
They`re just looking to treat the symptoms of a disappearing middle class.
Ask the French what happens when you don`t have a middle class.
*** approach though... Takes away the only good thing about capitalism.
Ask the French what happens when you don`t have a middle class.
*** approach though... Takes away the only good thing about capitalism.
MickeyD
RIP
You have articulated what many of us are experiencing or have experienced.
I also agree with your 7 point plan, especially the issue of splitting COSATU and the ANC.
/Roadrunner
Banned
Arzy for Prez!
Like the way you think..
Like the way you think..
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This is exactly what I was going to say. Except that all this will do is drag the middle down to the same level as the bottom. The people at the top will find some loophole and remain exactly where they are. The divide will only grow. There will ne no middle class.
Suggesting that only govt salaries be capped just shows how ignorant people are. Its always "nail the other guy" And you wonder why the country is f@@@d up. Well, the other guy can play the same game. Only problem is that the other guy has the majority to pass the laws and you don't.
I don't think anybodies salaries need to be capped. Just add a super tax (50 or even 70 perc) on bonus's that exceed 12 months salary.
I don't think anybodies salaries need to be capped. Just add a super tax (50 or even 70 perc) on bonus's that exceed 12 months salary.
MickeyD
RIP
Well, maybe if our government actually delivered on their promises my stance might change. Our country is being run into the ground, with national and local government and metros running out of budget to provide even the most basic of services, let alone do any maintenance or repairs.
Except that that guy only has the power to do that because these these guys have voted them in and handed them that power. These guys have the power of the vote to take their power away. It's just that a lot of these guys haven't realised that they have that power :erm:
Number of points:
1. Market will find ways around this. E.G. The proposal doesn't cap salary amounts as far as I know but increases on current earnings and bonuses. Which means a guy earning R1 000 000 will get the same % increase as a guy earning R500 000, but it doesn't say why the guy earn ing R500 000 can't earn a million. Meaning the loophole is that the market will invent more positions and you simply get a "promotion" and the salary that comes with it is not an "increase". Obviously a board director earns more than a junior manager, so one of the ways to earn more is to get promoted to a higher position (So simply invent a higher position...). Another way to get round it is to pay salaries in the form of benefits. The reason why companies tend to contribute towards medical aid, is that in the states during WW2 I think, salary levels were capped (Due to war constraints) so in order to keep people the companies started paying for things for their employees such as medical aid. The practice has just continued. So your "increase" will come in the form of your company paying of your debts or buying groceries for you etc.
2. As has already been mentioned by some insightful people on this thread, a cap will result in lowered production (Raising prices and reducing wages in real terms, despite the "inflation increase", which will in turn to lead to higher "inflation" increases as measured by CPI or CPIX or whatever) and it will result in a shortage of skilled personnel. Economic growth will also slow down. Remember companies and the people running them take risks when they decide to make decisions like whether or not to expand. As I manager/director of a company, you would take the risk of making the decision to expand a business and possibly get it wrong and lose your job, because if you get your decision right you can get rewarded. Now the state is saying you can't. Which means as a manager I would not make risky decisions to expand etc. as there is no upside, only a potential downside. I would only just do enough to keep my job, whilst searching for better oppertunities elsewhere.
1. Market will find ways around this. E.G. The proposal doesn't cap salary amounts as far as I know but increases on current earnings and bonuses. Which means a guy earning R1 000 000 will get the same % increase as a guy earning R500 000, but it doesn't say why the guy earn ing R500 000 can't earn a million. Meaning the loophole is that the market will invent more positions and you simply get a "promotion" and the salary that comes with it is not an "increase". Obviously a board director earns more than a junior manager, so one of the ways to earn more is to get promoted to a higher position (So simply invent a higher position...). Another way to get round it is to pay salaries in the form of benefits. The reason why companies tend to contribute towards medical aid, is that in the states during WW2 I think, salary levels were capped (Due to war constraints) so in order to keep people the companies started paying for things for their employees such as medical aid. The practice has just continued. So your "increase" will come in the form of your company paying of your debts or buying groceries for you etc.
2. As has already been mentioned by some insightful people on this thread, a cap will result in lowered production (Raising prices and reducing wages in real terms, despite the "inflation increase", which will in turn to lead to higher "inflation" increases as measured by CPI or CPIX or whatever) and it will result in a shortage of skilled personnel. Economic growth will also slow down. Remember companies and the people running them take risks when they decide to make decisions like whether or not to expand. As I manager/director of a company, you would take the risk of making the decision to expand a business and possibly get it wrong and lose your job, because if you get your decision right you can get rewarded. Now the state is saying you can't. Which means as a manager I would not make risky decisions to expand etc. as there is no upside, only a potential downside. I would only just do enough to keep my job, whilst searching for better oppertunities elsewhere.
Exactly. So how do you convince that majority that the people they voted in aren't doing the job?
EDIT: They already know this, but would rather vote for the ANC than some racist white.
Playing the race card against the ANC is probably the dumbest tactic. It merely serves to unite blacks behind the ANC. Playing the race card against the majority race is a big fail.
The only way to get the black South Africans to stop voting for the ANC just because it's a black govt, is to convince them that white South Africans are not a threat. To do that white South Africans have to embrace non-racialism and be convincing about it. A lot can be learnt from the US Civil Rights movement.
However, I can't see that happening for decades, if not a century or 2. Too many white South Africans can't stand the thought of being the equal with someone of another race, which will mean all white South Africans are regarded with suspicion.
Brain drain
Both my wife and I are what would be considered skilled South African's (as are most people on this forum im sure). I am busy doing my honours degree while working. If the ANC wants to cap salaries then why am I bothering to get my honours? Why am I bothering to work hard and progress in life?
If the ANC implements this, my wife and I WILL LEAVE THIS COUNTRY! That's two highly skilled people,...gone. And trust me, we are most definitly not the only ones.
- ANC, you want to increase my taxes to pay for the 'FREE' NHI?
- ANC, you want to toll me to such an extent that I will be paying R800 on tolls per month just to get to work and back?
- ANC, you want to increase taxes to meet your spending commitments?
-And now, ANC, you want to cap my salary thereby killing my will to study, work hard and progress in my career?
And lastly, do they really think making capped salaries optional will work either? Why would I want to work for a company that caps my salary when I can just go down the road and work for one which doesn't? Good luck to those companies who adopt this idiotic proposal.
ANC, I am counting the number of nails you are hammering into your own coffin.
As a side note (pipe dream of mine), if somehow South Africa does increase it's number of skilled and educated citizens, they will then have the intelligence to vote out the ANC. It's because of the uneducated masses out there that know no better than to vote for the ANC that they remain in power. Improve education -> increase the number of intelligent people in SA -> good bye ANC.
Both my wife and I are what would be considered skilled South African's (as are most people on this forum im sure). I am busy doing my honours degree while working. If the ANC wants to cap salaries then why am I bothering to get my honours? Why am I bothering to work hard and progress in life?
If the ANC implements this, my wife and I WILL LEAVE THIS COUNTRY! That's two highly skilled people,...gone. And trust me, we are most definitly not the only ones.
- ANC, you want to increase my taxes to pay for the 'FREE' NHI?
- ANC, you want to toll me to such an extent that I will be paying R800 on tolls per month just to get to work and back?
- ANC, you want to increase taxes to meet your spending commitments?
-And now, ANC, you want to cap my salary thereby killing my will to study, work hard and progress in my career?
And lastly, do they really think making capped salaries optional will work either? Why would I want to work for a company that caps my salary when I can just go down the road and work for one which doesn't? Good luck to those companies who adopt this idiotic proposal.
ANC, I am counting the number of nails you are hammering into your own coffin.
As a side note (pipe dream of mine), if somehow South Africa does increase it's number of skilled and educated citizens, they will then have the intelligence to vote out the ANC. It's because of the uneducated masses out there that know no better than to vote for the ANC that they remain in power. Improve education -> increase the number of intelligent people in SA -> good bye ANC.
Chicken Boo
Senior Member
just a thought... but if these caps are intended for the entire population, isn't that going to reduce SARS's slice of the pie somewhat? which would effectively reduce the national budget?
I think if the idea of capping is to be feasible at all, then goods and services will also have to have caps applied.
I think if the idea of capping is to be feasible at all, then goods and services will also have to have caps applied.
Geriatrix
Executive Member
Yeah that worked out brilliantly for Zim.
<yeah right>Also I'm sure all those international companies shipping their products here will understand and humor us too
</yeah right>