Guild Screwed you over

Odom said:
In regard to fair loot and all that BS there is no fair loot. The only true fair loot system is Greed/Need. As much as you want to argue that DKP and EPGP are meant to stem it they don't. All they do is reward people who have been in the guild longest more gear points or w/e. 99% of the time Officers and the GM will always be leading the pool and getting gear anyway. Loot councils are also BS because trust me, it's usually the friends and irl friends who get gear ahead of everyone.
Click to expand...


There are systems out there that i think is pretty decent and does not favor officers or length of your membership, but more players that are active . I remember the one we used in a guild i was in called Suicide Kings [Skurm also knows this one]. You generate a random list with all the people in the raid/guild . If loot drops, the first one on the list can take it , if he pass next one on the list gets the option.

If someone takes loot, they drop to the bottom of the list and everyone else moves up the list. If no one wants the loot, then it's free for all need/greed without penalties.

Obviously there's a few variations as to how you can apply it. You can keep a list per raid [so you roll the list at the start of the raid] or for the entire guild for all raids [more tricky to maintain]...but yea, GMs/Officers just need to do their research a little. It's pretty simple and it's random enough [need/greed style] that players can't scream favoritism .
 
Last edited:
Esea said:
He has a life its playing games or did you mean he has to conform to normality and join the mindless masses or did you mean he has to be more like "you" 2 each there own you wana tell some one what to do and how to act I sugest you buy a dog
Click to expand...

no no. I meant it in the nicest possible way. I didn't say MY life. I said A life.
I see all these people lamenting about hours upon hours of "hard work" lost when an account was hacked or when someone is promoted above them in some or other guild, and I assume the worst I suppose.

I still think you should buy a dog tho. Dogs are cool. Get a Jack Russel.
 
some people play games as hobbys. You wouldnt tell A golfer to get a life becos of all the time he spends on the golf course now would you?
 
Need/Greed or normal rolls is a load of bull. Thats another reason why pugs are so sh#t. Most of the time the scrub who just sneaked in and basically got carried gets the item.
Fair would be if the person who did his job the best gets the item IF he needs it, otherwhise next etc (not like u can really say who that is...)

Imo EPGP is the closest to fair you will get. We have Officer & Raider ranks which is equal when it comes to loot, then Member rank and below it Trial.
Officers & Raider ranks are there 99% of the raids (not saying they always gets a spot, but they will be on standby and get some EP atleast) and thats why they have that ranks. They get something extra from GB also and its something for members to try and achieve.
EPGP simply awards the players who puts in the most, but you can't overdo it as it works itself out pretty nicely since EP / GP = Prio. You just need the correct GP per item.
Also also you just need to use all the EPGP features, like the decay of points @ the right rate and it pretty much works itself out that the persons who contributed the most during say the past few weeks, without needing on 2 much gear gets what should come to them for there efford/work.

It's as fair as it's gonna get and besides in decent guilds it's about the guild and progress, not you personally. QQing about not being top dps or have the best gear will only get your ass kicked.

I've been part of many systems in a raiding enviroment and well thats my opinion about it :)
 
kukest loot system I saw was if you want a Item you link yours when the rl links what drop you want and then the gm officers and rl says who gets the item
 
Esea said:
kukest loot system I saw was if you want a Item you link yours when the rl links what drop you want and then the gm officers and rl says who gets the item
Click to expand...


Its called loot council ... we use it. Cant say I am 100% happy with it, but I am forced to run with it.

Takes the power away from you if you wanted something really bad, you could save for it with DKP. Also it kinda means your characters performance and build is directly in the hands of the council... you have to hope your council members knows and understands your class like you do.
 
Need/Greed works well in small HC's for us. But we're still a little guild. What does peeve me off though is if one of the peoples needing on every item he can use be it for his off spec or main spec. Then throws :'( in the chat when he loses a roll, not keeping in mind all the previous gear was passed on so he can have it.

Lol wiz you have some nice gear though. I inspected you last night whilst you were admiring that broken bird. :D
 
SnowWar said:
Need/Greed or normal rolls is a load of bull. Thats another reason why pugs are so sh#t. Most of the time the scrub who just sneaked in and basically got carried gets the item.
Fair would be if the person who did his job the best gets the item IF he needs it, otherwhise next etc (not like u can really say who that is...)
Click to expand...

Who did their job the best is completely subjective. Classes that do less DPS, like Shadow Priests would never get a chance. How do you select who did the best healing? Can someone with a ping of 500ms ever compete with someone on a 20MS ping (everything else being equal)? Not so easy to implement.

TBH, I have not seen any leadership material here (except for maybe 2 people). Being an officer is not a way to get phat lootz. It's work. If you are in a serious guild that does end game raiding (I am talking about ToGC and Ulduar hard modes) who do you think does all the preparation for the raids? The officers have to put together the best teams, design strats to suit your group make up, deal with recruitment, say no to member's friend who want to raid with the guild, deal with any emo and do all the admin that is required to keep a good raiding guild going. Officers land up taking a lot of **** for doing what they are there to do. Stop taking it for granted. You, as a raider, are most likely getting those nice epics because of the hard work the officers put into the guild. Guilds don't just spring up and start themselves.

If you want the status of being an Officer and can't get it through promotion, start your own guild. I challenge you to keep us up to date so we can see your progress.

And I find it absolutely disgusting that people automatically conclude that a female got Officer because she is merely female. Granted, there are cases where it does happen. If it happens in your guild, you are in a fail guild and should look somewhere else.

BrianStephan said:
Been in the guild 3 weeks longer and they promoted her to officer and I got rank of Veteran same privledges as the rank I was in except can take things out of the guild bank now wow, but just shows u been there for a long time so what has actually changed just the rank name and she did nothing diffrent to what I did always there for raids, etc
Click to expand...

Congratulations for earning your raid spot. Do you know all her contributions? What privileges are your expecting as an officer? Extra loot? Having access to the GBank? If a guild hands out loot based on your "status", you are in the wrong guild.

If your officers are responsible and fair people (which they should be) they would not abuse this. They have these privileges to assist the guild. I have been an officer in 3 decent guilds (I have been playing since vanilla) and I have never received extra "privileges".

How long you have been in a guild has nothing to do with officer selection. It can play a role but this is one of the very last things I would look at before selecting an Officer.
 
Last edited:
What Maryjane said.

And I still stand by that no loot system is fair. EPGP? Did your guild also increase it's EPGP rewards based on gear level but not influence the decay? Had a guild like that, all the top 20 people would actually earn nearly 4x what would Decay per week. System working completely fairly there.

Need/Greed works because it's based on a random roll. So what if a scrub gets gear. You can just as well have a good player get loot as well. If you're super serious hardcore guild anyway why the hell are you bringing scrubs in the first place.
 
Hell no, need / greed rolling is the worst solution ever.

Imagine Mr rogue rolling /need on a bow or gun thats 10000 x more valuable to a hunter than himself. The rogue wants the +20 agility on the bow purely for his stats... where the hunter wants the use every aspect of the bow's stats. To say roll on it as a fair means of loot distribution is totally suicide.
Or eg. a warrior wins the Death's choice iLevel245 trinket from TOC but next run on the heroic version ilevel 258 deaths choice drops again, how do you allow a guy like that to roll again on the item... if he wins it again.. there is NO way that you could remotely think its fair.

It boils down to a combination of DKP (rewarding the loyal raiders) + intervention from the raid leader / master looter when a item is more beneficial to a specific class and most importantly having raiders with some common sense. When the two handed sword dropped in ulduar, all the hunters HAD to wait till all the melee classes had their swords allocated to them... why... because its just plain common sense.

You need to enforce a system, where you reward the guys that pitch up every night raid ready with flasks, but at the same time avoid things like DKP hogging where new guys dont have a chance to get loot. Hence lots of guilds use the 0 dkp base system. Guys entering the guild last, still have a decent chance to get loot.
 
Pornolio said:
Hell no, need / greed rolling is the worst solution ever.

Imagine Mr rogue rolling /need on a bow or gun thats 10000 x more valuable to a hunter than himself. The rogue wants the +20 agility on the bow purely for his stats... where the hunter wants the use every aspect of the bow's stats. To say roll on it as a fair means of loot distribution is totally suicide.
Or eg. a warrior wins the Death's choice iLevel245 trinket from TOC but next run on the heroic version ilevel 258 deaths choice drops again, how do you allow a guy like that to roll again on the item... if he wins it again.. there is NO way that you could remotely think its fair.

It boils down to a combination of DKP (rewarding the loyal raiders) + intervention from the raid leader / master looter when a item is more beneficial to a specific class and most importantly having raiders with some common sense. When the two handed sword dropped in ulduar, all the hunters HAD to wait till all the melee classes had their swords allocated to them... why... because its just plain common sense.

You need to enforce a system, where you reward the guys that pitch up every night raid ready with flasks, but at the same time avoid things like DKP hogging where new guys dont have a chance to get loot. Hence lots of guilds use the 0 dkp base system. Guys entering the guild last, still have a decent chance to get loot.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree here but find that EPGP, if correctly implemented, is a lot more fair and a million times easier to understand and maintain.

I co-GM a successful 10 man raiding guild and we work on /rolls. It is working out really well for us. We however give priority to the class that can use the item the best. Come to think of it, we have not had a situation yet we where have actually had to refuse giving loot to someone. We started raiding seriously about 4 weeks ago and we have not had a problem yet (cleared ToGC up to Anub and done all proto drake achievement besides Yogg +1). We however have quite an older player base and we all want the same thing: to progress. I think the guild average age is about 27.

The trick is to find a loot system that works best for the guild, for example a hard core raiding guild aiming for server firsts would implement Loot Council while a casual guild would go for EPGP.
 
The problem with the rolling solutions is... its luck based. And thats just it... its flawed and has too many room for failure.

Use my example I stated with regards to the warrior that got the trinket.

Honestly if you go with the roll solution, you are keeping your own guilds progress back. If you are serious about raiding + progress, you want your overall raid dps / healing to go up as quickly and as much as possible.

Running with the rolling solution, you open up a scenario where you keep someone from getting an item that would be a 100dps upgrade for him, where the warrior above got eg. 20 dps upgrade.

But to each his own... all depends on what you regard as fair.
 
Yeah, but our 10 man raiding team is pretty static. We maybe have an extra person or 2 running with us when someone can't make it. Our members always consider others when taking gear. For instance, our Elemental Shammy won the SP dagger in ToC10 normal. We then ran ToGC10 and the heroic version of the dagger dropped and it was passed to our Mage. TBH, gear is so easy to get it does not really matter. 80% of the loot that drops in ToC normal or Ulduar goes to OS or is sharded.

There is also a silent rule of 1 item per person per run. If no one else needs the item and you have already received something, then you can take it. When I used to run Naxx 25 PuGs I used that rule and it works really well. Every now and then you get a person who moans but I usually ask them to leave if they don't like it.

Contrary to popular belief, people can actually be decent and consider others. In a larger guild it definitely will not work.
 
Fair enough... valid points made. I can honestly say I have not been in a small guild so I cannot say I have seen it work.

From my past experiences, people want the best possible gear with the least amount of effort to obtain it. Your methology can work in a small guild, BUT this is where I think your solution has many "grey" areas. Your roll solution is not a true roll solution, there are to many areas where the roll gets overrided. And thats where I disagree'd with Odom's post.

To make a statement like "Rolling is a fair means of loot" is where I completely disagreed. :)
 
OW boy, Greed/Need is for pugs and scrubs and thats what my comment regarding that is aimed @

EPGP in a proper guild is by far the best you will get in wow. If you don't think so then you are either in a **** guild with ppl that don't know how to run it or you should not be in a guild that raids in the 1st place.

People will always find something to moan or QQ about. No doubt SA ppl are the worst. VOL *** :p

Now don't get me started on SA women :p *run*
 
BrianStephan said:
I didnt say I wanted to be officer I am trying to work out y they promoted her to 1 and what I was saying is I am looking just for some recognition for being in the guild so long thats all the rank I have now I have no say in anything whatsoever and that peeves me. I am not asking to be an officer
Click to expand...

So how has the guild screwed you over ? You didnt ask to be an officer. They promoted you to veteran. What more could they have done to give recognition. By promoting someone to officer who you dont like, they screwed you over ?

Have you discussed with any of the guild leadership what you believe the right recognition should be ? If you arnt able to discuss this with the GM or another officer, then you need to think about whether that guild is the right one for you.

Sometimes the politics in a guild can get frustrating. I have been in my guild for over 2 years and I've seen it all. Officers leave and take key players. Some fool becomes an officer. Trust me. If they arent up to it, they will disappear. As Skurm says. Be patient. Realise that all guilds go through some drama 2 or 3 times a year. Its natural. Just ignore it. Develop relationships with the more chilled out people in the guild. Otherwise find another guild. :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X