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Question of the Day: Have you ever ordered a product online and received a fake knock-off?
Help STOP Illegal Infinitecall disconnections
- Thread starter Debbie
- Start date
Debbie2, I take my hat off for your bravery.
I think it is a principal issue here.
1. You are paying for InfiniCall, a service which by nature provide you with a capped call rate regardless of the length.
2. If the service for 1. is interrupted, for whatever reason, what is the value then of InfiniCall?
3. If Telkom skims off from many users (and face it most people in S.A. are still on dialup - no thanks to Telko.) they are in actual fact defrauding collectively a ton of money under false pretences. It is not a matter if the lines are bad or any such feeble excuses; you are paying for a service which is not materialising.
4. If our LOCAL calls where free as in other developed countries, the disconnection would have been a non-issue. The fees we are paying for line-rental should include "free" local calls - like any respectable competitive environment should be.
Debbie, I am still on ISDN - still the cheapest for me to do 12-18GB+ per month (yes, it is all legal stuff for those paranoid people.) I have a suspicion that if I dialup 128k that my 2nd line sometimes drop, but it is difficult to point the reason for it. I have no real proof at this stage. I have given up on 128k as I seem to get worse response now that Tiscali isn’t Tiscali anymore
Probably the “new” service providers way of “capping” me.
I will go to ADSL as soon as the 3GB cap is more in the range of "allyoucaneat"'s 30GB or iBurst or MyWireless becomes available in my area :/
I think it is a principal issue here.
1. You are paying for InfiniCall, a service which by nature provide you with a capped call rate regardless of the length.
2. If the service for 1. is interrupted, for whatever reason, what is the value then of InfiniCall?
3. If Telkom skims off from many users (and face it most people in S.A. are still on dialup - no thanks to Telko.) they are in actual fact defrauding collectively a ton of money under false pretences. It is not a matter if the lines are bad or any such feeble excuses; you are paying for a service which is not materialising.
4. If our LOCAL calls where free as in other developed countries, the disconnection would have been a non-issue. The fees we are paying for line-rental should include "free" local calls - like any respectable competitive environment should be.
Debbie, I am still on ISDN - still the cheapest for me to do 12-18GB+ per month (yes, it is all legal stuff for those paranoid people.) I have a suspicion that if I dialup 128k that my 2nd line sometimes drop, but it is difficult to point the reason for it. I have no real proof at this stage. I have given up on 128k as I seem to get worse response now that Tiscali isn’t Tiscali anymore
Probably the “new” service providers way of “capping” me.I will go to ADSL as soon as the 3GB cap is more in the range of "allyoucaneat"'s 30GB or iBurst or MyWireless becomes available in my area :/
Debbie
Banned
dominic said:
Hi, I will ignore him from now on.
Sorry Dominic, Wits has copyright on anything I have submitted towards degree purposes. I have to clear it with them first before I can make my research available online.
In the meantime, I am going to start compiling a list of the dodgy practices that Telkom engages in. This will take a few weeks though. Will post it here when I am done.
Thanks,
Debbie2
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arf9999
MyBroadband Member
Debbie,
I suggest that you (and as many others as you can find) do the following:
If you are convinced that the infinicall offer is a con, then you will need more proof than you can get by just polling other users, you will need to do a controlled test.
Over two or three weekends:
1. Using a different modem each weekend (borrow different ones from friends etc.) connect (as) constantly (as possible) for the entire 7pm Friday to 7am Monday.
2. Record the connection logs on your PC.
3. Contact your ISP, tell them that Telkom is blaming THEM for your disconnects and ask them to supply you with THEIR logs for your connection (by law they have to store this information, and I'm fairly sure that you have the right to see them).
If you are correct the logs should indicate that the line is being cut as opposed to the connection being closed by either you or the ISP.
Unfortunately, without this kind of evidence, you are unlikely to succeed.
I suggest that you (and as many others as you can find) do the following:
If you are convinced that the infinicall offer is a con, then you will need more proof than you can get by just polling other users, you will need to do a controlled test.
Over two or three weekends:
1. Using a different modem each weekend (borrow different ones from friends etc.) connect (as) constantly (as possible) for the entire 7pm Friday to 7am Monday.
2. Record the connection logs on your PC.
3. Contact your ISP, tell them that Telkom is blaming THEM for your disconnects and ask them to supply you with THEIR logs for your connection (by law they have to store this information, and I'm fairly sure that you have the right to see them).
If you are correct the logs should indicate that the line is being cut as opposed to the connection being closed by either you or the ISP.
Unfortunately, without this kind of evidence, you are unlikely to succeed.
Phew!
Whoa Guys!!!!
Calm down.
I remember the days I had ISDN and in those days we also had constant disconnections and I am a stones throw away from the Exchange.
It improved to the end. I can’t say what it would be like now. But many a call was lost during this time and I was charged for it, which I think was unfair.
I think the emphasis here and it’s a no-brainer really. Why not just charge One Call for a Weekend to the ISP's number even if the call is lost and reconnected. Otherwise what is the point of Infinite Call, if you cannot stay connected. IMO. Telkom brought this service in mainly for the Internet Users. I cannot really think I would want to talk to someone long distance for 3 hours, which is about the amount of time you need to be connected if I remember right, before Infinite Call becomes feasible.
If ADSL was affordable, we would not need 56K or ISDN Dialup would we?
Whoa Guys!!!!
Calm down.
I remember the days I had ISDN and in those days we also had constant disconnections and I am a stones throw away from the Exchange.
It improved to the end. I can’t say what it would be like now. But many a call was lost during this time and I was charged for it, which I think was unfair.
I think the emphasis here and it’s a no-brainer really. Why not just charge One Call for a Weekend to the ISP's number even if the call is lost and reconnected. Otherwise what is the point of Infinite Call, if you cannot stay connected. IMO. Telkom brought this service in mainly for the Internet Users. I cannot really think I would want to talk to someone long distance for 3 hours, which is about the amount of time you need to be connected if I remember right, before Infinite Call becomes feasible.
If ADSL was affordable, we would not need 56K or ISDN Dialup would we?
Darth Garth
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dominic said:reread and think about it
Ag spare me the stupid one liners dominic.
Debbie2 at least debated me about her POV while you on the other hand had to haul out the old and tired lame "troll".
Darth Garth
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Hmmm ... something just clicked .... Debbie2 ... for Debbie Love ???.
Debbie
Banned
Arf9999:
Thank you SO much for your comments. They are very helpful to me. How would I prove that I had connected via different modems? And couldn't Telkom simply claim that those specific service providers I happen to use are at fault?
I will speak to the ISPs I currently use.
Thnaks again for your very helpful comments.
Thank you SO much for your comments. They are very helpful to me. How would I prove that I had connected via different modems? And couldn't Telkom simply claim that those specific service providers I happen to use are at fault?
I will speak to the ISPs I currently use.
Thnaks again for your very helpful comments.
Darth Garth
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Debbie
Banned
Yes "dude", that would be me.
Mux and BBTB: You are correct in pointing out that the issue at stake here is that Telkom is claiming to provide a service on which they do not deliver.
For too long now we have sat back as customers and simply allowed this to continue. NO MORE. I am sick to death of Telkom and their illegal, unethical business practices.
Thanks for the support, and for pointng out to the no-brains ppl around here the real issue that we are fighting. I have already received several emails from people that have been most helpful.
Mux and BBTB: You are correct in pointing out that the issue at stake here is that Telkom is claiming to provide a service on which they do not deliver.
For too long now we have sat back as customers and simply allowed this to continue. NO MORE. I am sick to death of Telkom and their illegal, unethical business practices.
Thanks for the support, and for pointng out to the no-brains ppl around here the real issue that we are fighting. I have already received several emails from people that have been most helpful.
Debbie2 just make sure that you did not have "idle time disconnect" enabled on the modem. What will happen then is that if the modem is idle for more than a specified period of time it will drop the connection by itself.
Why we don't have flatrated dialup in this country is beyond me and if only our leadership in this country had the foresight to understand the huge negative impact that Telkom is having on this country this might be fixed.
Now Telkom wants to abuse us more with increased pricing on local calls when the trend worldwide is the other way around.
tibby.dude, why exactly are you so protective of Telkom?
Regards
A
Why we don't have flatrated dialup in this country is beyond me and if only our leadership in this country had the foresight to understand the huge negative impact that Telkom is having on this country this might be fixed.
Now Telkom wants to abuse us more with increased pricing on local calls when the trend worldwide is the other way around.
tibby.dude, why exactly are you so protective of Telkom?
Regards
A
arf9999
MyBroadband Member
Debbie2 said:
It isn't really neccessary to prove that you had different modems. As long as you keep a very detailed record (i.e. include make, model number, firmware version and ICASA type approval number), Telkom are unlikely to argue. If they do, go to the nearest police station and swear out an affidavit. Please ensure that you do have the ICASA (or SATRA) type approval number...it is usually a small gold sticker on the underside of an external modem (If you can't find it, contact the manufacturer/importer). If the modem is ICASA approved, then you remove one more argument from their arsenal. (It is theoretically illegal to connect a non-approved modem to the PSTN).
AFAIK your ISP's logs (and yours) should indicate if the connection was terminated unexpectedly or if it was closed normally. If both logs indicate that it was terminated unexpectedly at the same time...then it is likely to be a line error.
I like that we fight back as much as possible.
My concern though:
Can we force Telkom to offer a service at a certain price?
Can Telkom stop offering a service?
Legally I'm sure this is a big point to be argued but we have all seen that they pretty much do what they like.
So, if we manage to know set a president whereby we actually milk them for the disconnects aswell. Then they will surely stop the infinit call plan as it will become even less profitable, maybe even a loss.
THEN you will see some angry ppl running around!!
My concern though:
Can we force Telkom to offer a service at a certain price?
Can Telkom stop offering a service?
Legally I'm sure this is a big point to be argued but we have all seen that they pretty much do what they like.
So, if we manage to know set a president whereby we actually milk them for the disconnects aswell. Then they will surely stop the infinit call plan as it will become even less profitable, maybe even a loss.
THEN you will see some angry ppl running around!!
If I remember correctly, some ISP's also have this feature on their modem banks - if there is no activity for a specified time, they will initiate the line being dropped. Perhaps a cron-type job doing nothing more than a ping say every 5 minutes, will bypass this...Antowan said:
Debbie
Banned
Ant: I don't have the "idle disconnection" setting on my computer enabled. Also, I am often disconnected when in active chat rooms - so I am 100% sure its not due to inactivity on my line.
Arf9999: Thank you for the further advice. It helps me a lot.
LouisP: I think you are right that Telkom may react by discontinuing the service altogether. I don't know if they have the authority to do this, it is possible that they do not.
What choices are we left with? Are we supposed to sit back and allow Telkom to make millions upon millions through illegally charging the consumer? I say NO. I will fight this issue to the death. And *** help Telkom if they do discontinue Infinitecall. They have NO idea what lengths (legal, of course) I am prepared to go to to fight this fight.
Arf9999: Thank you for the further advice. It helps me a lot.
LouisP: I think you are right that Telkom may react by discontinuing the service altogether. I don't know if they have the authority to do this, it is possible that they do not.
What choices are we left with? Are we supposed to sit back and allow Telkom to make millions upon millions through illegally charging the consumer? I say NO. I will fight this issue to the death. And *** help Telkom if they do discontinue Infinitecall. They have NO idea what lengths (legal, of course) I am prepared to go to to fight this fight.
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Darth Garth
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antowan said:
Unlike the majority of you who bitch and moan about the cap and the high costs when sitting at home while pulling down porn or Mp3's ... I worked for several companies that had critical remote sites that depended upon Telkom connectivity to pay my salary and contribute to the country by providing a service to millions of people and in paying our taxes.
While they are a monopoly and abuse it when it suits them and they are bloody expensive seen in world comms context there are some good folks working there that I have dealt with and their infrastructure is world class compared to crap you find in the rest of Africa (see Nigeria's Nexitel for example).
Having written some modem code in my life to over 8,000 remote terminals there is NO and I repeat NO telecoms company that will promise you no disconnects on their voice grade lines.
I asked for these mysterious laws and license agreements dealing with dialup but then I get ****ing ignored because I am suddenly now a troll when I ask a legtimate question !!!!.
Yep a political science major is surely qualified to deal with telecomms issues.
Nocturnal
New Member
Who really knows...?
Well I think nobody really knows what exactly is to blame for the disconnections, we all have our theories that we'd like to back up with statistical reports of "out of the ordinary" happenings and comparitive research.
An example:
We once moved house (we were running our business out of a house at the time) and we literally moved around the corner - a few houses away.
Whilst on the previous premises, the dial-ups actually worked like a charm; nice and fast (up to 5.5 kbps dl - hehe) and ISDN was but an up and coming sensation at the time.
However, within the new evironment we were plagued by line-drops and lots of crackling noise on the lines, and actually getting more than 3 kbps was lovely.
Now... why?
Telkom also told us that it must be the modems, and we were given all sorts of advice about device drivers and upgrades, ISPs etc.
We eventually went against our tech experience and followed some advice given by said idiots out of desperation - nada improvement, and running the business became even tougher.
We never could figure it out, nor could we get assistance from Telkom - however, eventually a leased line was aquired, once again increasing overheads, and hampering growth - I'm sure we all know what big a hole a leased line can rip out the profits.
I've read this whole thread, and especially noticed the feaces-throwing by tibby.dude... who totally kept telling us all how stupid we are to hold Telkom responsible for the shoddy and ancient (not to mention overloaded) condition of their infrastructure, which he nogal goes and re-iterates. Bravo.
Tibby, allow me to also praise your flexibility as you go and insult ppl (cheapskate remark) and then kiss your own butt by telling people they lack debating skills. Oke, you don't need to shove your head right up there to kiss it.
We all are in different positions here; some rich, some poor, though we all seem to feel the burn of exhorbitant rates. To most, including myself - the principle of it is the biggest crime here.
So my point is this: Analogue dial-up might not be as stable as a digital line, but BTTB just added that it was quite the same with his ISDN. We all know the restrictions of a copper line without DSL technology, and if Telkoms copperwire infrastructure can't handle it, or is just shoddy, or as old as Tibby.dud quoted - what then?
I reckon with all the profits Telkom made, not to mention the overheads cut in retrenching half it's work-force, they should be able to keep the infrastructure up to speed. It's theirs, I think that responsibility comes with the monopoly.
Who knows, if the modem didn't disconnect 3 times per maintenance upload back then - the business might not have died eventually. Speculation, but it definately made a difference.
Debbie, fight the good fight my girl - if getting a couple of pom-poms and cheering you on is the most I can do, I'll still do it... with a smile.
You carry the hopes and appreciation of us all, 'cept for a few monkeys stuck in some dead trees.
I'll chat to some ppl I know and ask for comments and proof if possible - hope I can help you there.
Well I think nobody really knows what exactly is to blame for the disconnections, we all have our theories that we'd like to back up with statistical reports of "out of the ordinary" happenings and comparitive research.
An example:
We once moved house (we were running our business out of a house at the time) and we literally moved around the corner - a few houses away.
Whilst on the previous premises, the dial-ups actually worked like a charm; nice and fast (up to 5.5 kbps dl - hehe) and ISDN was but an up and coming sensation at the time.
However, within the new evironment we were plagued by line-drops and lots of crackling noise on the lines, and actually getting more than 3 kbps was lovely.
Now... why?
Telkom also told us that it must be the modems, and we were given all sorts of advice about device drivers and upgrades, ISPs etc.
We eventually went against our tech experience and followed some advice given by said idiots out of desperation - nada improvement, and running the business became even tougher.
We never could figure it out, nor could we get assistance from Telkom - however, eventually a leased line was aquired, once again increasing overheads, and hampering growth - I'm sure we all know what big a hole a leased line can rip out the profits.
I've read this whole thread, and especially noticed the feaces-throwing by tibby.dude... who totally kept telling us all how stupid we are to hold Telkom responsible for the shoddy and ancient (not to mention overloaded) condition of their infrastructure, which he nogal goes and re-iterates. Bravo.
Tibby, allow me to also praise your flexibility as you go and insult ppl (cheapskate remark) and then kiss your own butt by telling people they lack debating skills. Oke, you don't need to shove your head right up there to kiss it.
We all are in different positions here; some rich, some poor, though we all seem to feel the burn of exhorbitant rates. To most, including myself - the principle of it is the biggest crime here.
So my point is this: Analogue dial-up might not be as stable as a digital line, but BTTB just added that it was quite the same with his ISDN. We all know the restrictions of a copper line without DSL technology, and if Telkoms copperwire infrastructure can't handle it, or is just shoddy, or as old as Tibby.dud quoted - what then?
I reckon with all the profits Telkom made, not to mention the overheads cut in retrenching half it's work-force, they should be able to keep the infrastructure up to speed. It's theirs, I think that responsibility comes with the monopoly.
Who knows, if the modem didn't disconnect 3 times per maintenance upload back then - the business might not have died eventually. Speculation, but it definately made a difference.
Debbie, fight the good fight my girl - if getting a couple of pom-poms and cheering you on is the most I can do, I'll still do it... with a smile.
You carry the hopes and appreciation of us all, 'cept for a few monkeys stuck in some dead trees.
I'll chat to some ppl I know and ask for comments and proof if possible - hope I can help you there.
tibby.dude said:
hehehe. yeah, Hitler also had some good henchmen, ala Schindler
i dont think many people on this forum have any issues with telkom individuals. ok. maybe a few. the issue people have is with their management principals. they behave like what they are - a monopoly. except in this case its worse - they do it with infrastructure that by and large the tax payer has payed the capital cost for. they would be far more constructive to our ecomony if they werent putting the interests of foreign investors above the interests of sa citizens, considering its these very citizens that payed via tax for the basic infrastructure.what annoys me even more - have you tried logging a call for a martis service going down recently? if you are on bronze service, you can wait days for a telkom technician to arrive or even look at the problem. if you want better response times, you have to cough up even more. all this because telkom retrenced most of the field technicians. last week they had two engineers looking after the midrand area. two!!!! down from 30 six months ago. i am ok with being charged a high price, but then at least deliver the service, or allow me take my business to someone who will offer me the service i require. I hate it that they are so obstructionate with competition but refuse to raise their service levels.
anyway - a bot off topic. just needed to rant and rave!
nocilah
Banned
tibby.dude said:
er... ADSL works through... um copper wires just to fill you in! I know cuz I couldnt get ADSL cuz I had fibre optic cables in my exchange...
Besides... the las was asking for help... not your oppinion.