Help STOP Illegal Infinitecall disconnections

Anyways. The real question is what have Telkom got to lose by letting you dial your ISP 10 times in one night and only charge you for one call ? This is nothing short of pure greed and a "Because we can" attitude.
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Excellent Post Clay2.

This was the point I was trying to make earlier.
It’s really a no brainer. Just charge a flat rate for the Infinite Call Period.
Telkom cannot go on and on saying that they cannot gaurantee this and that. The consumer needs some protection here. What about the millions of consumers out their that are not technically savvy that will probably at some stage buy a 56K modem and try to connect to the internet with it.
These people are being led down the garden path IMHO. Whichever way you look at it, the consumer is paying and paying for services technically not received.

Anyone using ISDN would know that ISDN can dial at an extremely fast rate and the bill can mount up very quickly. But in essence the person trying to connect to the internet has still not actually done anything if they get disconnected. So a charge has been levied for a service essentially not recieved.

Telkom can say they cannot gaurantee this or that, but have they made any effort to sort out the mess in the Customers Accounts. Why should they. Its all easy money for them.

I was viewing my Telephone Account earlier today and I have numerous calls being charged out at 59c for a few seconds of use. One was even 1 second. I mean who can talk in 1 second.

Everybody is pinning their hopes on the SNO. Well I like you have also reserved my opinion here. If as you say the Cell Phone Providors are an example, we can see the same happening with the SNO and Telkom.
It really is sickening. And to think our government lets it happen too.
 
But the point is what have you agreed to in your contract with Telkom? [sarcasm]I feel it may help a bit if we ever got to read it[/sarcasm]. Seriously though you really have no room for complaint unless they have exceded the accepted (implicitly or otherwise) amount of disruptions of service.

In all fairness Spam I do agree with you that Telkom is just another company making money as best they can. So be it then, but then we must fight for that little bit that belongs to us.
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The point I'm trying to make is that Telkom is not an inherently bad company, it is merely a display of how capitalism itself can be twisted. Short of changing socio-economic systems the only way to get fair and acceptable levels of service and pricing is either by complete deregulation which would allow us to regulate the industry by simply leaving a company if we feel we are being charged to much or getting poor service or by goverment correctly regulating the industry in order to keep prices and service levels reasonable.

Bitching to Telkom and waiving placards around isn't going to change a damm thing.
 
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Bitching to Telkom and waiving placards around isn't going to change a damm thing.
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Agreed. Up to a point.
If the case of Telkom vs Hellkom actually ever goes to court, I will be waiving a placard myself.

They might hide behind their Corporate Perfume of Policies etc. Well let them have it. What goes up must come down. :rolleyes:
I will let my feet do the talking when the time comes later.
 
Got My Support

Debbie,
To get back to the point.

You asked specific questions and my answers are as follows:

1) I think Telkom is responsible for the disconnects. In my experience a sure way to get disconnected was to post a comment/reply on the www.hellkom.co.za website or even to some extend in the www.myadsl.co.za forums. I also noticed the “dead-line” syndrome as I wanted to call Telkom to have the line tested after some of the disconnects. By the way, my connection was mostly at 52 Kb/s, so line quality is not an issue, lowest connection I ever got was 42 Kb/s and that was during a particular heavy thunderstorm in December 2004. Modem I used is a 56k Duxbury Modem supplied by MWeb, so I think it is approved.
2) They should be held responsible, after all, we are paying for a service and that was also the reason I got a second line.
3) After two agonising weekends trying to download some M$ Security updates, I sat down and did the sums and discovered that it would actually be cheaper to use IBurst. Been connected since last Thursday and all I can say is WWWWOWWWWW. (Got great pleasure when I walked into Telkom Offices and notified them to please disconnect my data line. They wanted to talk me into getting ADSL but I’m glad that I am rid of them)
4) I think this should definitely be taken higher, however being a realist I don’t think this will even get to court as this would set a precedent and allow so many more cases against Telkom. I think they will settle with you before that happens.

Hey, you got my support. Go get them girl :o

PS, what does AFIAK stand for?
 
Ok - I have just finsihed reading this huge thread - first of all let me tell you about my experiences with this service:

I have been using Infinicall for ages now - and I have to say I haven't been disconected for ages now - I don't think it has happened to me once on my Dell (Conexant D480 MDC V.9x modem) but it did happen alot on my (hopeless) Mecer (no idea about the modem - will check some time though) also didn't happen (around the same time) on my moms Mac (also not sure of the modem) but i didn't use that much for hours of internet ;)

I know someone who suspected this a few year back - will find out about it for you

About Telkom diconecting us - as much as I think they are capable of doing it :mad: I don't really think they would do it - I mean think about it. CEO instructs someone to instruct someone who instructs someone else to diconennect the lines. Then a techy has to program it to disconect. It would have gotten out somehow.

But that doesn't mean we musn't investigat this - just look at what happened to Debbie! :p

By the way I phoned Telkom about the Infinicall service and was told (not very politly) that it would just not be offered to new customeres - so if you have it you can keep it :cool:

Hope my info helps
 
Oh by the way - has anyone seen on these telkom ads telling us we can still affrod to have a real conversation they say that they always have crystal clear lines :confused: So if line quality is an issue then Telkom must fix it! :mad:
 
Dropped line charges

I have just received my first 'online' Telkom account and am astounded at the number of dropped connections which I am charged for! Of the 239 calls I made, 91 were less than 30 seconds amounting to R52.97. Do you know that you pay 52.1 cents for a call to a busy line? If you have a phone which has auto retry for busy lines, you can end up really paying.

I am a watch collector, so I often call 1026 to get the time to set watches. As you may know, you often have to call 1026 ten or twelve times to get through. So it costs me 10 x 52.1c = R5.21 to get the time!

As far as dropped Callmore calls to my ISP, there are also many. I am using Eject.

I now have ADSL which should sort out the internet costs. As it appears that MTN does not charge for busy lines, I will use a combination of MTN and Skype for my voice comms in future!


Debbie2 said:
My next endeavour against Telkom:

Today I went to a local Telkom ‘customer care’ branch to ask for a refund for all the times in the past 7 months that Telkom has illegally disconnected my line whilst I was on Infinitecall (former R7 call plan). I also asked for a refund for the 83 times Telkom has dropped my internet call after having been connected for only a few seconds.

I was passed through a series of people, and was continually told that the reason for my continual disconnections is because of either a) my modem; or b) my ISP.

Having failed to resolve my complaint at the local customer branch, I was passed on to the regional supervisor late this afternoon. Tomorrow he will let me know if Telkom will be crediting my account with the money they have illegally charged me in the past 7 months.

If Telkom does not credit my account, the terms of my contract with them state that I have the right to be given the phone number of the CEO’s office. (Yes, this is in the Telkom contract – see section 10 – it took me 7 months to get this contract, which Telkom denied even existed!!!!)

If my compliant is not resolved by the CEO’s office, I then have a right, as per my Telkom contract, to request that the matter be referred to arbitration with or without legal representation. I expect Telkom will continue to deny liability, in which case I will take this to arbitration. I am preparing for this event as of tonight.

I need to collect evidence that indicates that Telkom is responsible for these illegal disconnections of calls on Infinitecall. Therefore, I request help from anyone who has had similar problems with their Infinitecall service, or problems with having to dial into the internet several times before the connection doesn’t drop.

If you would like to help me in this matter, PLEASE EMAIL ME THE NAME OF YOUR SERVICE PROVIDER, AND IF POSSIBLE, THE MAKE AND MODEL OF YOUR MODEM. You can do this anonymously if you like. If you do happen to send me your name, then it will remain known only to me.

I intend to prove that these disconnections occur across every ISP and almost every modem type. This is why I want to build up a list of ISPs and modem types – to show that it is not the ISP nor the modem’s fault, but rather Telkom’s poor network condition, or Telkom deliberately disconnecting people.

PLEASE HELP IN THE CONSUMER FIGHT AGAINST TELKOM’S ILLEGAL PRACTICES!!! If this goes to arbitration, it will be a win for the consumer who will be able to cite my example in their own attempts to claim back from Telkom's illegal charges!

Debbie2
[email protected]
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Sizwe^H^H^H^H^HTibby: Sure Telkom can't guarantee *no disconnects ever* on Infinitcall, that's just a stupid strawman argument, but obviously there must be some expectation of a *reasonable* minimum quality for any product like this.. e.g. one or two disconnects a month for a small number of users would be acceptable and can reasonably be expected. But when the vast majority of users are all getting disconnected very often, this is VERY obviously wrong and unacceptable.

The bottom line here is that the consumer is paying for a certain advertised service that the majority of customers are not receiving. It really is as simple as that.

You can make excuses for Telkom all day long, but every excuse is irrelevant to the issue, which is that Telkom is obligated to find and fix the problems. If Telkom is unable to provide a service (e.g. due to not having equipment capable of providing that service) then it is actually ILLEGAL for them to offer it and take money for it .. if their lines are too lousy to provide the advertised off-peak-flat-rate system THEY MUST REMOVE THE PRODUCT OFFERING. Period.

Telkom makes more than enough profit to upgrade it's lousy quality lines; what is disconcerting here is that, since they make far more profits from the the Infinitcall product when calls are frequently disconnected, Telkom actually has a disincentive to fixing their lines. So their poor line quality is "highly convenient", and they're eager to just kind of look the other way and ignore it. They deliberately keep poor quality lines because they know it increases their profits. It's important to understand here that the disconnects can still be deliberate even if no 'techie' was ever *instructed* to implement such a thing, simply by maintaining poor quality lines. Whenever a company has an incentive to maintain a low quality product that is bad for consumers.

The problem is very clearly more than just poor quality modems etc., because in other countries like the US where flat-rate local calls are offered it is an extremely common practice to dial in to the ISP for DAYS at a time. Disconnects are rare. Dial-up modems in the US are not magically better than the ones here, and many of them ARE cheapo Asian winmodems etc. ... the only difference is the quality of the phone line infrastructure.

I don't know where you get the idea that customers are supposed to 'bend over and take it' from companies that rip them off by charging them for services that they cannot or will not provide. Maybe you just enjoy that sort of thing. Bend and enjoy. The rest of us can spot a con when we see one and prefer to fight it.
 
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Got another Green and Blue Bill yesterday. Cost me R199.90 (excluding ISP costs) and I didnt even get to go on the internet from home because of work. My mom made a few voice calls. woop dee doo...

It works out cheaper to get TWO Cell C contracts at R55.50 per month per contract, giving you 100 free minutes per contract, i.e. 200 minutes. Hmmmm, pay R200 per month for a few voice calls OR R111 per month for 200 free minutes plus mobility? Oh yeah, and the phones are free too.

No matter which way you look at it Telkom is ALWAYS more expensive in EVERYTHING they do. I'm canceling my Telkom account today, saving R90 odd and gaining more. Screw internet at home, I'll abuse office internet.

Sizwe, jou ma is 'n man...
 
Telkom is not evil, they are a company, the main objective of a company is to make as much money as possible.
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I think this is absolute nonsense.. no offence.

Go to any national/international educational institution and you'll find that 90% of business orientated subjects have an ethical component, where they state that the primary objective of any company should be to add value in the sector within which they operate. If this is not done, the company is seen as a drain on that sector in which case it's continued existance becomes at stake.

As soon as the primary objective of any company becomes to make profits only we see the "Telkom" syndrome which would have failed miserably had they not been protected.

This is perhaps where South-Africans fall face first in the mud, in the idea that business is there to firstly and foremostly make profits. The primary objective should be to focus on their core competancies and improve their offerings iot generate competitive advantage, in which case the rest would take care of itself.
 
add value in the sector

add value in the sector
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I agree with Quik.

In our industry the successful suppliers share their knowledge with their customers have the biggest market share. The only time they withhold information if it is patented rights or intellectual rights. Then mums the word.
I don’t know of anything that Telkom has invented. They just market technology that is available worldwide with Cleverly Worded Adverts and Advertising making them appear something they are not.

If all the Service Providers and Telkom got together and chose to provide the best quality products at the cheapest possible rate, we would not need lawyers. Everyone will be making a living, the public will start to use the internet more and the whole industry will buck up quickly.
Only foolish businesses chose legal loopholes. In the end they catch up with you.
Not to mention the damage that is done in the interim to not only us the public, but amongst themselves, the Service Providers. They will hold grudges and none of this is healthy for good business.
 
Turtle said:
The problem is very clearly more than just poor quality modems etc., because in other countries like the US where flat-rate local calls are offered it is an extremely common practice to dial in to the ISP for DAYS at a time. Disconnects are rare. Dial-up modems in the US are not magically better than the ones here, and many of them ARE cheapo Asian winmodems etc. ... the only difference is the quality of the phone line infrastructure.
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Not true. Phone line quality in the US is appaling! I got disconnected there more frequently than I ever get disconnected here. The difference of course is that you dont have to pay connect charges for local calls, so people make less of a fuss of it. And you have good alternatives in most locations if you want, like optimum (a cable service) or dsl.

Debbie - you need to keep your arguments with Telkom as unemotional as possible. Concentrate on factual evidence. You dont want to drop down to their level with you case - at shark **** level, they will beat the hell out of you due to sheer experience :-)
 
lol at the shark poop chirp!

I said it before and I'll say it again. We need flatrated dialup in this country. ISP numbers should be flatrated and you should only pay a set amount of money per month for dialing into the Internet, no matter how many times you do so. This will go a long way in boosting Internet access in our country and giving us a better shot at catching up with the rest of the world.

Cheers
A
 
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