Help STOP Illegal Infinitecall disconnections

Debby2,

I'm now on ADSL, but previously I was on the InfinitCall for 2 years.

I don't think there's any deliberate activity going on here - I think it's down to line quality.

I was lucky to be living in a very settled old suburb and got top speed out of my connection, however, there are plenty of people who have lines which are virtually impossible to get online with. There are people with slightly better lines who can only connect at 28.8, no matter what modem they use.

What should be fought against, is the rotten line quality compared to the exorbitant prices we pay !

Although I didn't have intermittent disconnect problems, during the 2 years I was on infinitcall, my line went dead 8 times and at one point, was off for a week.

My brothers phone was recently offline for 2 weeks.

Now, this wouldn't be so much of an issue if our bills were more in line with international costs - for instance, free local calls - but they are not.

We hear about the massive profits Telkom are making and I'm sure some of that goes back into expanding the network, but how much ?
Why is service still so bad ?
Why is line quality so bad ?

My guess would be because Telkom puts as little back into the upkeep of it's lines as possible and stretches existing resources to breaking point

I could be wrong.

Anyway, good luck with trying to prove these disconnects - if you could get some ISP's on your side, you may get more proof as obviously they log all activity from thier users.
 
Hiya Debbie

I would love to contribute to this cause. Seeing as I do not earn as much as the T-Dude I am forced to make use of 56k dial-up. And while Telkom still provides this InfiniCall service I do not see why we should be paying for something which is seriously NOT our fault. If I can barely afford internet on my measly salary, how are others who are less fortunate than me supposed to provide the Internet to their children?? It's a crying shame...

I have a 56k US Robotics modem and both me and my modem will be at your disposal.

If one of the pro's on the forum could provide a procedure that we should follow in order to obtain the required information to prove Debbie's case I would be very happy.

Thanks in advance and good luck Debbie
 
I think there is some merit in what most of you have been saying, but I doubt whether Telkom are deliberately disconnecting people on infintcall. The only reason i can say this with some certainty is the fact that in 12 months i was disconnected at most 4 times in Pinelands, Cape Town. One of the most dodgy local loops around. This was with a no name brand crappy modem. Now i live in Wynberg on ISDN 128k. We get dis'd about once a week on 64k and just about every day on 128k. That was until the ISDN specialist placed R25 000 worth of monitoring equipment on our line. This was 8 days ago. Since he plugged in the monitors, we have held 128k every night and all weekend. So the problem must be with our line or equipment.

Besides all this, the tech said to me that some ISP's have a timeout of 2 minutes for ISDN dialip connections, since they only carry a very limited number of ISDN modems in their racks. SAIX doesn't do this.

I think the strongest argument you can make is that the concept of the "infintcall" is flawed. With perfect infrastructure, you could in theory dial up and stay connected as long as you want to. But if you are disconnected, you waste R8.55. As was suggested before, the infintcall should allow you to connect to a phone number (ISP) for R8.55 regardless of the number of times you dial-up (due to disconnections). Obviously, this is one of the reasons infinitcall is being phased out. Secondly, "infinit" is a blatant lie. When last was infinty limited to 12 hours or a weekend? It should be called "callcapper" or something, since telkom love the word "cap" so much..
 
Hi all.

Good comments all but it all relates to data calls. If however we can prove that these drops occur on voice calls as well then Telkom cannot blame ISP's or anyone else for that matter. So then you would legally have a leg to stand on to sue them for the sale of "Infinitcall".

Justa nother 2c's worth.
 
Sorry for sidetracking...

I keep hearing you guys metion that InfinitCall is being phased out. When will this come in effect and what alternatives will there be to InfinitCall?

If it is phased out then a LOT of people wont have access to the internet anymore, unless we use one of those really great value packages from Telkom that allows you about 2 hours worth of internet for Rx-xx...

DAGNABBIT
 
I would not like to clear telkom, but the dropped connections is not always their fault - in fact, WinModems are a bit of a problem - fact: the people building them had serious problems getting them to work. There are several other issues involved here as well - the ISP might disconnect you if you were idle, they need to reset a server, a PC mechanic fell over a cable etc. (I can name at least 1 ISP that has some serious problems - they save money by using normal PC in a normal room, and allow some of their clients to put machines onto their LAN, without a DMZ.) Furthermore, software on you own PC might be problem. Check your settings. I would also suggest to look at the cables from the Telkom plug to your PC - especially the length and the number of washing machines, TV's, Microwaves, laser guns etc. sitting next to it.

I can understand your frustrations, but I discovered a few years back that the Telkom line was up and running, the transfer speed stalls and the modems disconnect because of something else. The line quality is OK.

If you can conclusively proof that this instance was Telkom's fault then I would back you anyday, just in my experience such problems originates somewhere else.

Please don't crusify me over this post, I hate Telkom more than the rest of you combined - I just believe fights like this should be realistic and based on solid facts.
 
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Johand said:
I just believe fights like this should be realistic based on solid facts.
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I agree, and I think that there seems to be some agreement on the forum that any accusation has to be backed up by evidence. I also feel that there may be an element of "paranoia" (for want of a better word) sneaking into the argument. I 'spose that if you get kicked in the b@lls often enough by Telkom, it is not surprising that you expect every action that they take to be gonad related.

I personally don't think that Telkom are deliberately disconnecting people on infinicall. That said, I think that they are well aware that their infrastructure, together with environmental effects and the instability of dial up modems will cause disconnections, and that it is virtually impossible to connect constantly over the infinicall period. Is this fraudulent? Possibly.
 
Another thing ... was infiniticall not marketed by Telkom as talk as much as you can to friends/family after 7pm or over the weekend.

In fact all of their dorky TV ads and related promotional materials never even mention that you can have "unmetered" Internet dialup with it ???.
 
Hi,

To all you guys who keep saying that they do not believe that Telkom disconnects Infinitecall people on purpose - I would just like to know if you perhaps have an explanation for why, when i immediately plugged my line back into my phone after a disconnection, why was my phone dead? I would appreciate it if anyone can try and explain this, because I cannot think of a logical reason. It just doesnt add up for me.

Johand and arf9999: I would never crucify anyone for offering as valid opinions as you have! I think a good point is made in that we do tend to think, "well it MUST be Telkom, due to all the other things WE KNOW they do."

Yes, we do need solid facts, but also remember that a lack of facts proving that Telkom does this on purpose does not mean that Telkom does not do this on purpose!

My personal opinion is that my disconnections happen for a combination of two reasons:
1) I still believe Telkom disconnects people on purpose (why was my phone line dead for a few mins on Sunday after an infinitecall disconenction?)
2) Line quality, as bb Matt stated.

I would not be as indignant about this if I thought that we were be charged a reasonable rate. But the fact is that Telkom IS NOT charging us anything near reasonable.

I just worked out some of the statistics from my phone bill. Here they are:
1) I have been disconnected 131 times in 6-odd months.
2) I was once disconnected 29 times in one month alone.
3) The average number of disconnections I experience each month (as mean, median and mode) is between 19-22.

If Telkom is not responsible for these disconnections, then who is? Do I need to go after the ISPs? (I have already established in earlier posts that it is almost certainly not my computerS' settings, nor my modemS'. I do not have dodgy things like microwaves near my computer (who keeps a microwave near their computer? LOL)). Again, i think it is line quality combined with the occasional deliberate disconnection.

At the end of the day, it is still NOT the consumer's fault, yet it is the consumer who pays. Perhaps I should do a brief survey of the other people in my complex?
 
Debbie2 said:
At the end of the day, it is still NOT the consumer's fault, yet it is the consumer who pays. Perhaps I should do a brief survey of the other people in my complex?
Click to expand...

One of the biggest problems faced when trying to deal with this monopoly and get the message out there is education.

People are usually afraid to admit to problems like frequent modem disconnections because they feel they will appear "stupid" - so few people will ever call Telkom to ask why thier modem keeps on disconnecting, as Telkom will just tell them it's the PC or the Modem, as will the ISP help desk.

In fact, they will call the ISP help desk first and probably will never consider calling Telkom.

You can request for Telkom to check your line quality, but many people are not aware of this. An aquaintence of mine kept on getting frequent disconnects with their modem and asked me to come have a look. The first thing I checked was the line quality by dialing 0 and listening - plenty of crackles on the line. I also noticed they could rarely get 19.2, let alone 28.8 - obviously due to the line quality. I got them to call Telkom, but nothing was ever done about the problem as far as I know.

I could be wrong, but I think the majority of new voice line installations are most probably incapable of getting modem speeds higher than 28.8

It would be interesting to get some hard facts and figures out of someone "in the know"
 
Debbie, do you have armed response for your home alarm system? If you do, then it is probably the alarm company disconnecting your line to test it every day. You have to phone them numerous times and force them to stop testing your line after 7pm and over weekends. If you do not have a home alarm, then perhaps your conspiracy theory has a rational explination - anyone?
 
tibby.dude said:
Another thing ... was infiniticall not marketed by Telkom as talk as much as you can to friends/family after 7pm or over the weekend.

In fact all of their dorky TV ads and related promotional materials never even mention that you can have "unmetered" Internet dialup with it ???.
Click to expand...
Either way the connection doesn't stay up so its irrelevant methinks
 
Debbie2 said:
On Sunday night I was disconnected from infinitecall. I immediately pulled my line out of my computer and plugged it into my telephone. Guess What? My telephone was dead. Dead dead dead as a dodo. It came back on after a minute or two. Why was it dead in the first place?
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I have ISDN2a, and Telkom as my ISP. Have this happen occasionally, mostly around midnight on weekends (and I'm always actively online at these time - Playing WoW-EU). One Friday night this went on for about 15 minutes. On, then off...the whole time I checked my phone line (Using 64k) and the red light on the ISDN box would go off, and I'd get a low-tone tone on the phone, followed by silence, then about 1-2 minutes later it'd be up...then I'd get dropped again, rince and repeat.

-G
 
Diconnections on Infinitecall

Just to put this in perspective. What we need to establish is what levels of service (if any) have been garunteed. If they are not being met then you would in fact have a reason to complain. I sincerely doubt that Telkom would resort to puposefully disconnecting Infinitecall connections as a revenue stream, if they are not meetings their agreed to service levels I would blaim incompetence far sooner than a grand consipracy to rip off dial up internet users.

Another point that I have to take exception to is the extensive anthropomorphisms that get used around Telkom. Telkom is not evil, they are a company, the main objective of a company is to make as much money as possible. Normally either the marketplace or the goverment regulate companies. Since we (the marketplace) have been denied the ability to regulate Telkom (by taking our business elsewhere) and the goverment has failed to regulate Telkom, we are currently experiencing the consequences of an unregulated monopoly, not evil incarnate (or incorporated).

As far as the dial-up issue, I experienced a similar issues a little while ago with my ISDN line, I eventually resolved the issue however. The problem was that most Telkom technicians are not particularly interested in helping the client. After having numerous technicians out to my house, after trying different modems, computers, ISPs and even physical lines I very clearly established the fact that the only common denominator in every disconnect was my phoneline I finally got the head technician for my area out to my house and took the day off work to spend with him fault-finding. After many hours and a few death threats we eventually tracked down the fault to a water leakage problem where the phoneline connected to the telephone pole. The problem however was that it took me getting pissed off enough to take the day off work to be there while the technician did his work to ensure that he actually did a thorough job. The entire process took roughly six months to complete however. Until you have ruled out every single possible cause of a disconnection I do not feel that a consipiracy theory would be necessary to explain them, not when there are perfectly good reasons why it could happen like laziness and incompetence.
 
Brannor said:
I have ISDN2a, and Telkom as my ISP. Have this happen occasionally, mostly around midnight on weekends (and I'm always actively online at these time - Playing WoW-EU). One Friday night this went on for about 15 minutes. On, then off...the whole time I checked my phone line (Using 64k) and the red light on the ISDN box would go off, and I'd get a low-tone tone on the phone, followed by silence, then about 1-2 minutes later it'd be up...then I'd get dropped again, rince and repeat.

-G
Click to expand...

This has also happend to me
 
Spam, how much money would you reckon you lost during this period when you got disconnected frequently?

Even if it totals less than R100, I do not go around handing out my hard earned money to random people. I would have much greater fun burning my money than handing it to a VERY rich company.

No matter which way a person spins it, nobody likes to just toss money down the drain, but when you must pay because somebody else is causing the crap then it REALLY isnt fun anymore.

In all fairness Spam I do agree with you that Telkom is just another company making money as best they can. So be it then, but then we must fight for that little bit that belongs to us. "Redde Caesari quae sunt Caesaris". Gimme my bandwidth!
 
Aonther problem which exists is the use of pair-gain systems by Telkom (old 1+1). I do not know how widespread the use of these systems still is, however, My line at one stage, when I was still using dial-up, was converted to a pair-gain system line without my knowledge. After a few days of hassle and continuous disconnections, I contacted Telkom and was informed that I was running on the "carrier" of the pair-gain system and that internet will only work properly on the physical line. They then converted my line back to a plain old exchange connection (single line) and my problem was solved.

However, I also experienced disconnections after this, sometimes up to four times a weekend. But it was less than when I was on a pair-gain system.
 
yea...

Ok... Telkom guarantees you 9600 baud. 9.6kbit on a 56k modem. That's REALLY slow. I had a 9600 modem 10 years ago and it was slow then. the point is that if your modem handshakes at this speed it won't disconnect unless there is some other issue.

Anyways that's beside the point. the point is that they run pair gain systems to increase carrier capacity cheaply on single copper lines. Commonly used are the 0+2 0+4 and 0+10's.

The 0+2's aren't too bad. Usually you can dial up with them. The 0+4's you can very seldom dial up with. The 0+10's you will never dial up with. Ask any Telkom technician. He'll tell you you;re wasting your time with a 0+4 and a 0+10.

The DPGS's (Digital Pair Gain System) which is what I've mentioned above are a load of ****. Cheap products which fail often. If you have a lot of disconnections on them i am NOT suprised. There are a lot of them now, especially in newer areas and some older areas that have run out of pairs.

No matter what modem you use on those lines you will suffer. I've tried them with US Robotics and Duxbury modems. USR is in my opinion the top modems i nthe world and Duxbury are ICASA approved. That should end any of this talk about cheap winmodems (which are actually a load of ****) being the problem.

My dialup is in FreeBSD so you can't blame windows errors for the disconnections either and I''ve been disconnected a lot last month. Then again maybe I'll send you pictures of what thier "workmanship" is like. Pictures of the joints outside my house with indoor cable being suspended over a road between 2 trees. This has been there for months. So much for a "temporary service" work-around.

Anyways. The real question is what have Telkom got to lose by letting you dial your ISP 10 times in one night and only charge you for one call ? This is nothing short of pure greed and a "Because we can" attitude.

We don't need a SNO in this country. We need another 3. If one comes along then they will talk with Telkom. Drink at out expense and sign a no competition treaty like Vodacom and MTN did. It's easy when there's only 2 to screw the consumer and enrich themselves. They only have to lose by competing. I don't see a SNO making any difference in South Africa I am very sad to say.

I hope we have an abundance of vaseline because we are going to be shafted for years to come. :(
 
clay2 said:
Ok... Telkom guarantees you 9600 baud. 9.6kbit on a 56k modem.
Click to expand...

Well that is exactly what I thought but then nobody around here can show me any law or license condition or SLA or promises where Telkom states that we will

a) get 56K connections on their voice grade lines
b) no disconnections ever on infinitycall

Unless this can be proved to ICASA then this whole survey will just be a WOFTAM.
 
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