Holocaust denier sent to prison

zippy said:
And the neo-nazis crawl out from under their rocks :)
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I don't think you can win an argument intellectually honestly by pointing out their views are "politically incorrect". That's just an attempted form of censorship that shows a reluctant to deal with their actual arguments. It's easy to "win"
and argument in today's hyper politically correct climate with this tactic (at least with a wink and a nudge to your liberal peers), but if you have any respect for the truth you would avoid such intellectual bankrupt and manipulative forms of "argument".

You're either going to be an open minded individual swayed by the evidence and facts in an argument, or you're going to have to admit to not being objective in your thinking. Anytime you dismiss an argument based on the fact that the person making it fits into a preconceived group you are committing a logical fallacy. Modern liberals are especially guilty far too often of this.

"Said person is an *insert weponised word here* and therefore we can dismiss their views without scrutiny." That's a weak argument. It shows a lack of willingness to question you own assumptions and any group that subscribes to this type of thinking lack critical thought and is destined for their world view to stagnate. Stay open to ideas that challenge your own is my advice or you won't grow intellectually.
 
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To those people taking huge offence at those who might have the slightest hesitation regarding the official Holocaust story:

On what basis do you so vehemently object? Have you read or watched anything opposing the official version or are you simply repeating what you've been told your whole life?

I happened upon some 'revisionist' material once and then I delved further until I had what I think is a fair understanding of the opposing view. One example in particular really made me wonder:

David Cole was a non-religious Jew who made a trip to Auschwitz to investigate the claims. One of the things was the vents in the gas chamber roof where they supposedly dropped in the cans of Zyklon B gas. He asked the tour guide whether the gas chamber and the vents were all preserved as they were and of course the guide said yes. He had asked the question because the vents while visible on later aerial photos are absent from those the Allies took right towards the end of the war. Also there were old marks on the floors like walls had been knocked down and other alterations made. Eventually the curator admitted to him privately that the vents and the chamber itself was a "re-construction". Keep in mind this is THE gas chambers that everyone talks about, millions visit as proof of what happened and basically is the bee all and end all of the Holocaust story.

The other interesting thing is the "human skin" lampshades that were among the various items put on display after liberation and were used as evidence of the atrocities have long since been proved to be made of goat-skin. On a TV show in the US where David Cole was being interviewed a "Death Camp" survivor who phoned in and was allowed to voice her opinion screamed how she has seen the human skin lampshades being made and and and. The claims are that there were "crisis actors" who portrayed Jewish survivors who were always available to share their experiences and disgust. Clearly that woman who lambasted David Cole didnt get the memo the lampshades were out the script.

All in all I have doubts as to the full claims. The whole 'History is written by the victors' things etc. One just has to read thru a modern SA History book to see how easy and quickly the facts and events of the recent past can be edited, changed and even made to vanish.
 
Freshy-ZN said:
I happened upon some 'revisionist' material once and then I delved further until I had what I think is a fair understanding of the opposing view. One example in particular really made me wonder:

David Cole was a non-religious Jew who made a trip to Auschwitz to investigate the claims. One of the things was the vents in the gas chamber roof where they supposedly dropped in the cans of Zyklon B gas. He asked the tour guide whether the gas chamber and the vents were all preserved as they were and of course the guide said yes. He had asked the question because the vents while visible on later aerial photos are absent from those the Allies took right towards the end of the war. Also there were old marks on the floors like walls had been knocked down and other alterations made. Eventually the curator admitted to him privately that the vents and the chamber itself was a "re-construction". Keep in mind this is THE gas chambers that everyone talks about, millions visit as proof of what happened and basically is the bee all and end all of the Holocaust story.
.
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So what is the alternative narrative, or is it like every other conspiracy, 9/11 Truther, Moon-Landing fakers, JFK plot -there is no actual complete narrative supported by evidence, just sniping at small things and then moving onto the next so called inconsistency when challenged. It's telling that holocaust denial has become more common now that a lot of survivors of the concentration camps have passed - in the absence of first hand testimony people can start to muddy the waters.

As for David Cole....
http://www.thewrap.com/media/column-post/who-david-stein-strange-hollywood-republican-outs-himself-holocaust-denier-david-cole-89/

But fear not, Cole says his Holocaust views remain intact. He tells the Guardian:
"The best guess is yes, there were gas chambers" he says. "But there is still a lot of murkiness about the camps. I haven't changed my views. But I regret I didn't have the facility with language that I have now. I was just a kid
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Not very convincing....
 
The level of cognitive dissonance in this thread is huge!

I see certain individuals posting along the same lines of the 9/11 truthers, the I am just asking questions methodology, that all conspiracy theorists use. Trying to disguise their obvious belief in the conspiracy.

Out of the 2 or 3 obvious deniers here, how many have actually been to Auschwitz? Been to Berlin, seen the topography of terror? Been to Cologne and visited the Gestapo museum?

I have. You quickly begin to see the level of direct organisation the Nazis employed in making the holocaust happen. You can see how undeniable this holocaust really is.

Walk around the streets of Germany, look down at the coble stones ... you will soon see many bronze stones with the names of families killed in the holocaust. Real, visceral and undeniable.

Debate over the holocaust? Yes there is much to debate, but over whether it actually happened? This is a matter of fact.

Debate over the numbers? No. The Nazis were meticulous in their records. But no amount of facts will change your warped view of this. Even the obvious decline in population of Jewish people after decent statistics were obtained after the war.

I guess while you are all busy with the denials, lets just ignore testimonies of camp guards, inamtes and so forth.

Lets also ignore positive test results for Zyklone B found on the walls of the gas chambers.

Lets just forget about it all...
 
buka001 said:
The level of cognitive dissonance in this thread is huge!

I see certain individuals posting along the same lines of the 9/11 truthers, the I am just asking questions methodology, that all conspiracy theorists use. Trying to disguise their obvious belief in the conspiracy.

Out of the 2 or 3 obvious deniers here, how many have actually been to Auschwitz? Been to Berlin, seen the topography of terror? Been to Cologne and visited the Gestapo museum?

I have. You quickly begin to see the level of direct organisation the Nazis employed in making the holocaust happen. You can see how undeniable this holocaust really is.

Walk around the streets of Germany, look down at the coble stones ... you will soon see many bronze stones with the names of families killed in the holocaust. Real, visceral and undeniable.

Debate over the holocaust? Yes there is much to debate, but over whether it actually happened? This is a matter of fact.

Debate over the numbers? No. The Nazis were meticulous in their records. But no amount of facts will change your warped view of this. Even the obvious decline in population of Jewish people after decent statistics were obtained after the war.

I guess while you are all busy with the denials, lets just ignore testimonies of camp guards, inamtes and so forth.

Lets also ignore positive test results for Zyklone B found on the walls of the gas chambers.

Lets just forget about it all...
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This +1000
 
Freshy-ZN said:
To those people taking huge offence at those who might have the slightest hesitation regarding the official Holocaust story:

On what basis do you so vehemently object? Have you read or watched anything opposing the official version or are you simply repeating what you've been told your whole life?

I happened upon some 'revisionist' material once and then I delved further until I had what I think is a fair understanding of the opposing view. One example in particular really made me wonder:

David Cole was a non-religious Jew who made a trip to Auschwitz to investigate the claims. One of the things was the vents in the gas chamber roof where they supposedly dropped in the cans of Zyklon B gas. He asked the tour guide whether the gas chamber and the vents were all preserved as they were and of course the guide said yes. He had asked the question because the vents while visible on later aerial photos are absent from those the Allies took right towards the end of the war. Also there were old marks on the floors like walls had been knocked down and other alterations made. Eventually the curator admitted to him privately that the vents and the chamber itself was a "re-construction". Keep in mind this is THE gas chambers that everyone talks about, millions visit as proof of what happened and basically is the bee all and end all of the Holocaust story.

The other interesting thing is the "human skin" lampshades that were among the various items put on display after liberation and were used as evidence of the atrocities have long since been proved to be made of goat-skin. On a TV show in the US where David Cole was being interviewed a "Death Camp" survivor who phoned in and was allowed to voice her opinion screamed how she has seen the human skin lampshades being made and and and. The claims are that there were "crisis actors" who portrayed Jewish survivors who were always available to share their experiences and disgust. Clearly that woman who lambasted David Cole didnt get the memo the lampshades were out the script.

All in all I have doubts as to the full claims. The whole 'History is written by the victors' things etc. One just has to read thru a modern SA History book to see how easy and quickly the facts and events of the recent past can be edited, changed and even made to vanish.
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Just read the wiki, and the associated pages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial
 
Midnight_choir_drunk said:
I'm sure everyone has their own theories. From my reading into the issue there aren't doubts that people died in concentration camps in great numbers. There's more questions about how they died...disease, starvation etc or systematically murdered. And also as to who they were, in what numbers, in what context/location was the evidence collected etc.

Even the official holocaust version of events has significantly downgraded the numbers of deaths over the years. Some camps have officially been stated to not have had gas chambers, which previously were said to have had etc. So even if you don't deny the holocaust the version of it you probably have been taught is mostly hyperbolic by many degrees. So a form of "holocaust denial" that states the events of world war 2 were manipulated and exaggerated for various agendas has already been justified. So it's really not such a straight forward issue as you might think.
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Ageed.
 
SweetFennyAdams said:
Here is an interesting lecture about the Jewish influence in SA banking and government by Stephen Goodson, former director of the South African Reserve Bank.
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So apparently being an economist gives you the authority to make pronouncements about the holocaust...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Goodson

Goodson had stated that that the Holocaust was “a huge lie” as "the principle is to extract enormous sums of money from the Germans as compensation", blaming international bankers. Goodson authored a book titled Bonaparte & Hitler Versus the International Bankers where he maintained World War II was provoked by the economic success of Germany, and he has also criticized the political actions of Jewish bankers, posting his views on anti-Semitic websites.[5] As a result, The South African Israel Public Affairs Committee called for the Reserve Bank to fire him for his pro-Nazi statements
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This thread is becoming a rogues gallery of ignorance and anti-Semitism.
 
Patrick_Hockstetter said:
Some people do believe there was no Jewish genocide. Read up on alternate sources, not just what the Jewish led media say.
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Some people believe we never went to the moon and that the Earth is flat. That someone believes obvious nonsense doesn't make it any less nonsensical.
 
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